Mhaldor vs Targossas

Calira

I recall huge teams of Mhaldorians unabashedly interrupting Hashan's raids in the most recent Hashan/Eleusis war and capturing as many tanks as they could. I'm glad that you guys find it just as annoying as we did.

Astarod

Akri said:

Micaelis said:

Astarod said:

Ya'll need to chill. Look, the rules are clear, you can gank infamous people if infamous, soldiers if sanction is active, and citizens if they elect to defend (you need to know they're defending). People can't help you with bounties/contracts without RP justification. It's been this way the ENTIRE time I've played achaea. I've had to consider these things to avoid breaking PK law because PK law exists. These aren't magical new rules, but I'm well aware people slip up, so there's no need to demonize. @Reyson, you're out of line for bringing issues here, and posting about them. That's not something I recall being allowed on forums. 

It's simple:

Mhaldor, don't create new PK rules, and try to meet us halfway (it's ok if mistakes happen, look at my talk with @entaro). 

Targ, don't get flustered over a few L1 tanks, it's frustrating when they're illegal sanctions, but ranting for 3-4 pages here doesn't solve anything. 

It's really not that hard. We were doing so well too with getting along.

I feel like your summary of the crimes of this war after the "It's simple:" part might be a bit biased.

Mhaldor, don't break PK rules/invent new ones and try and meet us at 50% (implying you're reaching out and they're shitting on your hand).

Targossas, don't get upset by the illegal tanks. 

We were doing so well, back when Mhaldor didn't break all the rules and gain illegal sanctions. Oh, and back when Targossas didn't...complain...about it.

Silas said:
It's human nature, dude. People are only mad about shitty things that happen to them. When they happen to other people they're fine. It's not that deep.

Let me throw shade in peace, @Akri + @Micaelis. 

Minifie

Calira said:

I recall huge teams of Mhaldorians unabashedly interrupting Hashan's raids in the most recent Hashan/Eleusis war and capturing as many tanks as they could. I'm glad that you guys find it just as annoying as we did.

Was that during that war? Pretty sure it was when we didn't have a font and had to get creative with just accessing tanks.

Calira

Minifie said:

Was that during that war? Pretty sure it was when we didn't have a font and had to get creative with just accessing tanks.

Both are true. It was during the war, and you also had no font and wanted tanks.

Minifie

Sounds like fair game, Hashan WAS part of the reason why we didn't have a font, after all.

In saying that, don't care if other cities want to intervene, no fun just sitting on the sidelines doing nothing after all. What is dumb is abusing things that specifically have a help file about not doing, while in turn issuing over illegal pk. Pick a lane, shit on the rules or suck on them, but don't do both, the aftertaste isn't worth it.

Cooper

So to get back on track:

I like the idea behind both cities being able to have sanctions going at the same time.

I do not like having to send people to loop the city for the entirety of said sanction just in case a serpent tries to sneak in a tank unnoticed.

Potential solutions, each solution is separate and they are not meant to be combined:

1. Cheap (1-2%) font power that shows tanks placed within the last 5 minutes. If you don't use this effectively you run the risk of being ninja tanked.

2. One city can have tank(s) down at a time.

3. Inexpensive talisman or common card that will show any tanks active in a city.

On a related note, being able to place multiple tanks AND all charging on kills feels wrong. I think it is OK that the passive charge for level 1 happens to all of them. I think kills should charge only one tank, or the amount should be split between tanks. So if you have three tanks and kill someone worth 5% tank charge, one of your tanks goes up 5%, or they all go up 1.67%. Right now they would all get that 5% charge.

Thoughts?

Kog

I would love a font ping that just sweeps for tanks. It's such a headache to manually walk through every room on the off chance someone stashed one, and it has to be way worse when they can do it while you're raiding *them*.

The multiple tank thing seems like it could be interesting- if you can defend multiple spots, you should absolutely be able to score points. I think the issue is you can put a tank beside another tank and just blow the hell out of your room+the 2 behind you, which doesn't really require splitting your forces. Give tanks a radius limit or something like shrines have, and force people to defend multiple locations. If they split the party and you rush one half, Pazuzu/block reinforcements well, it's feasible to snag a disarm, so there's risk and reward. Not so much if they're all adjacent.

Iaxus

Cooper said:

1. Cheap (1-2%) font power that shows tanks placed within the last 5 minutes. If you don't use this effectively you run the risk of being ninja tanked.

I like this idea, but I don't like the fact that it could be easily automated. Have someone afk on guardstack with a timer that runs FONT TANKS every 5 minutes during active sanction. An hour long raid would only be 24% of the font at that cost, which is negligible. Maybe have a font power that sweeps for any tanks in city placed at any point, but has a longish cooldown, say once an hour or so?

Farrah

Calira said:

I recall huge teams of Mhaldorians unabashedly interrupting Hashan's raids in the most recent Hashan/Eleusis war and capturing as many tanks as they could. I'm glad that you guys find it just as annoying as we did.

There was a lot of minor interference during our conflict with Ashtan too (mostly just Proficy and Atalkez). And Mhaldor caused a tank disarm at least once while we were raiding Targossas.

At least the minor Hashan involvement in this war is helping both sides.

Kog

Iaxus said:

Cooper said:

1. Cheap (1-2%) font power that shows tanks placed within the last 5 minutes. If you don't use this effectively you run the risk of being ninja tanked.

I like this idea, but I don't like the fact that it could be easily automated. Have someone afk on guardstack with a timer that runs FONT TANKS every 5 minutes during active sanction. An hour long raid would only be 24% of the font at that cost, which is negligible. Maybe have a font power that sweeps for any tanks in city placed at any point, but has a longish cooldown, say once an hour or so?

I'm not sure it's that big a deal if it IS easy to do- hidden tanks are annoying. The risk on the attacking side is pretty low for placing one, whereas the counter-play on the defense side is to walk into every single room in the entire city checking if someone put a tank down. One is massively easier than the other, and then detonating the hidden tank is just a matter of phasing back over to it and blowing it.

Maybe just make the font scream if somebody drops a tank, and don't say where. Then, at least, you know you need to spend 10 minutes wandering around the entire city, rather than getting sanctioned in a skirmish then having to wander around for half an hour over and over on the off chance they're trying for more than just a back-and-forth while playing in the sewers.

Iaxus

Kog said:

Iaxus said:

Cooper said:

1. Cheap (1-2%) font power that shows tanks placed within the last 5 minutes. If you don't use this effectively you run the risk of being ninja tanked.

I like this idea, but I don't like the fact that it could be easily automated. Have someone afk on guardstack with a timer that runs FONT TANKS every 5 minutes during active sanction. An hour long raid would only be 24% of the font at that cost, which is negligible. Maybe have a font power that sweeps for any tanks in city placed at any point, but has a longish cooldown, say once an hour or so?

I'm not sure it's that big a deal if it IS easy to do- hidden tanks are annoying. The risk on the attacking side is pretty low for placing one, whereas the counter-play on the defense side is to walk into every single room in the entire city checking if someone put a tank down. One is massively easier than the other, and then detonating the hidden tank is just a matter of phasing back over to it and blowing it.

Maybe just make the font scream if somebody drops a tank, and don't say where. Then, at least, you know you need to spend 10 minutes wandering around the entire city, rather than getting sanctioned in a skirmish then having to wander around for half an hour over and over on the off chance they're trying for more than just a back-and-forth while playing in the sewers.

I'd have no issue with a tank placed warning of some kind, either. But I also don't want to just completely negate any chance for a counter tank. Sure, it's annoying, but it's part of the war, and Cooper's suggestion combined with my thoughts would just make it not worth attempting a counter tank since it would be seen immediately and just captured/disarmed.

Atalkez

Farrah said:

Calira said:

I recall huge teams of Mhaldorians unabashedly interrupting Hashan's raids in the most recent Hashan/Eleusis war and capturing as many tanks as they could. I'm glad that you guys find it just as annoying as we did.

There was a lot of minor interference during our conflict with Ashtan too (mostly just Proficy and Atalkez). And Mhaldor caused a tank disarm at least once while we were raiding Targossas.

At least the minor Hashan involvement in this war is helping both sides.

I am an innocent party.

Cobault

My first post in this thread has aged well.

Soles

Saonji said:

Prolly not the best person to be quoting anything from.

LOL righttt

Davok

I'd like to echo the opinion of others about neutral battlegrounds. I don't think all the current elements of the war need to go - but having a few times in a war, Crusade style, where we can fight without worry about sanctioning on either side will make the whole thing a lot more bearable for everyone I think. And might give some role for allied villages to play (though I think those are a great angle for PvE-type war involvement - maybe similar to how the Black Wave worked, or Reckoning, with areas that populate with enemy or allied 'soldier' denizens that could be bashed).

Lord knows today was a lot more interesting after our tank was disarmed and neither side could actually dig in. Nobody was afraid to fight.

Veldrin

Miners/gatherers/foragers / crafters could supply stuff at the barracks, which would fund a denizen army that would then go out and 'occupy an area' (decided by the MoW) which the other sides PvE'ers could then go bash down? Longer that army sits on the area more points is gathered. To keep it for non-PK people the PK'ers wouldn't be able to defend this army.

Akri

Veldrin said:

Miners/gatherers/foragers / crafters could supply stuff at the barracks, which would fund a denizen army that would then go out and 'occupy an area' (decided by the MoW) which the other sides PvE'ers could then go bash down? Longer that army sits on the area more points is gathered. To keep it for non-PK people the PK'ers wouldn't be able to defend this army.

I'm okay with this, as long as it doesn't force people to bash non-stop either, or make people feel obligated to bash for ages. If there's a cooldown on it so you can only do it once-twice an rl day, that'd be good for the PvE crowd to enjoy. 

Adrik

If y'all fuckers start draining wood commodities into this war, I'm going to go apeshit.

#FreeTheWood
#NotMyCommodityMarket

Astarod

Adrik said:

If y'all fuckers start draining wood commodities into this war, I'm going to go apeshit.

#FreeTheWood
#NotMyCommodityMarket

I'm more like... do you guys remember how many of you guys got tired out from the reckoning? Do you guys really want to grief the shit out of eachother, and then add in tedious mob bashing?

Veldrin

In my head it'd be 6 hours of respawn after the 'commander' is killed or whatever, sort of like a reckoning schedule? Just less 'tough' since the available playerbase to bash those things would probably be significantly less (I don't really see the need for amazing xp or good gold drops from those army denizens to encourage only those from the cities at war to be hunting them)

ie
To start it up it takes donations, at some point army moves out, commander is killed, then it takes 6 hours or whatever and you can donate again. And donations could be anything from comms/reagents/ingredients to crafted stuff

Atalkez

Astarod said:

Adrik said:

If y'all fuckers start draining wood commodities into this war, I'm going to go apeshit.

#FreeTheWood
#NotMyCommodityMarket

I'm more like... do you guys remember how many of you guys got tired out from the reckoning? Do you guys really want to grief the shit out of eachother, and then add in tedious mob bashing?

Pretty sure the burnout was from the fact that the Reckoning literally lasted all damn day. The lulls were minimal.

If you did a similar setup but it only happened twice a day (or every other day!), I don't think it would be anywhere near that bad.

Reyson

You also had to contend with PvP all the while, and I think Veldrin said no PvP element to the PvE thing. 

Astarod

Reyson said:

You also had to contend with PvP all the while, and I think Veldrin said no PvP element to the PvE thing. 

as long as it wasn't too tedious, I wouldn't mind. 

Thaisen

Adrik said:

If y'all fuckers start draining wood commodities into this war, I'm going to go apeshit.

#FreeTheWood
#NotMyCommodityMarket

If you didn’t sell it for so cheap you’d have more for yourself 

Veldrin

Reyson said:

You also had to contend with PvP all the while, and I think Veldrin said no PvP element to the PvE thing. 

That was my suggestion yes. The PvP folks would be concentrating on the PvP stuff, leaving the PvE stuff to the PvE folks and even those who just want to be resource gatherers / crafters would have something to do as well.

Sobriquet

Thaisen said:

Adrik said:

If y'all fuckers start draining wood commodities into this war, I'm going to go apeshit.

#FreeTheWood
#NotMyCommodityMarket

If you didn’t sell it for so cheap you’d have more for yourself 

This is a wonderfully underrated comment 

Sothantos

Neither side having tanks today has seen a ton more fighting.

Fendrel

Yeah, it has been more fun with the zergs last night and today imo. When you don't have to factor in city destruction the context changes. I think I can agree to having a Reckoning-like war system, we would definitely see much more interactions.

Iaxus

I wasn't a fan of the idea of non-city raids until I realised exactly what Sothantos stated. It's been fun not having to tank sweep every 17 seconds.

Akri

Fendrel said:

Yeah, it has been more fun with the zergs last night and today imo. When you don't have to factor in city destruction the context changes. I think I can agree to having a Reckoning-like war system, we would definitely see much more interactions.

Yeah! Punishing trying to fight is never gonna make for fun conflict no matter how you cut it! Should never lose more by trying than if you didn't bother participating at all, I think. It's nice to have no tanks on either side to at least showcase that people are way more inclined, and having fun, when they don't risk getting a tank blown.