Mhaldor vs Targossas

Atalkez

Daeir said:

It also really doesn't help the optics of your situation when one of your dudes comes in to Nirvana after abusing a class change bug/oversight to become a Priest... as a Mhaldorian... during the middle of a war. The IC scruples that poses makes my brain hurt.

Big dick energy

Edit: Also it is not bug abuse in any way whatsoever, as confirmed by Makarios just a moment ago. Thank you, come again!

Archaeon

Daeir said:

I don't have my hands up people's assholes 

liar

Minifie

Atalkez said:

Daeir said:

It also really doesn't help the optics of your situation when one of your dudes comes in to Nirvana after abusing a class change bug/oversight to become a Priest... as a Mhaldorian... during the middle of a war. The IC scruples that poses makes my brain hurt.

Big dick energy

The same big dick energy that gets people who guard bash unenemied the next day I think, besides, we were just embracing targ's "by any means necessary".

Silas

Sad, this. Everything you do you try to blame on Targ. Just be a dick and own it. You don't know any of these people irl, so why talk a load of bollocks trying to justify your shitty actions to them? It's not a big deal.

Archaeon

It is funny though that you can completely disregard your factions rp and get a slap on the wrist. Really goes to show how flimsy mhaldorian rp is

Minifie

>not a big deal
>posts angrily

Sothantos

Go to bed, wake up, 52 new posts. Almost like old forums.

Reyson

@Silas I dunno. The same people who cried about infamy opening them up to attacks by others are suddenly cool with said others being able to disarm tanks, because it happened to Mhaldor. The latter actually affects the outcome, while the former was just a nuisance. 

How's about you turn that righteous attitude around and tell your own side to embrace being a dick and owning it, as well, friend? 

Archaeon

U must not know silas

Silas

Reyson said:

@Silas I dunno. The same people who cried about infamy opening them up to attacks by others are suddenly cool with said others being able to disarm tanks, because it happened to Mhaldor. The latter actually affects the outcome, while the former was just a nuisance. 

How's about you turn that righteous attitude around and tell your own side to embrace being a dick and owning it, as well, friend? 

It's human nature, dude. People are only mad about shitty things that happen to them. When they happen to other people they're fine. It's not that deep.

Sothantos

Oh, did Hashan screw around with Mhaldor's raid against Mhaldor?

Huh. Wonders never cease. Mezghar and Adrik have been helping with a few raids now against us. That's a surprise.

Reyson

Yeah, I guess that's fair. 

Alright, then. Back to the regularly scheduled ganking. 

Vinzent

I think there's a misguided conception about how everything needs to be fun. It should be interesting; fun is secondary. Both can be applicable, but they shouldn't always be. Achaea doesn't strike a balance here and neither do other games, but it comes closer than most. Rules mire the sort of conviction that would otherwise be needed to engage in what could be a 'truer' war. They exist for a reason, of course, but ultimately sully what would be a purer role-playing experience alongside all the not-so-ic tools available to people.

Sothantos

Well, there's also the issue that what's fun is vastly different for different people.

Sothantos

Anyway, yeah, it does suck that Hashan interfered. They've been doing that to us too. Adrik's actually cost us a tank before. Outside interference always feels terrible.

I think people are just not very sympathetic because people were not very sympathetic when it happened to us.

Silas

Vinzent said:

I think there's a misguided conception about how everything needs to be fun. It should be interesting; fun is secondary. Both can be applicable, but they shouldn't always be. Achaea doesn't strike a balance here and neither do other games, but it comes closer than most. Rules mire the sort of conviction that would otherwise be needed to engage in what could be a 'truer' war. They exist for a reason, of course, but ultimately sully what would be a purer role-playing experience alongside all the not-so-ic tools available to people.

Roleplaying and any sort of PK rules will never mix well, and Achaea has been mired in like 20 years or convoluted PK rules. A lot of the players who were active during the halcyon days of the Almighty Deletus and His Blessed Dice are still around now with largely the same attitudes towards PK, just couched loosely in today's language.

So Proficy won't tell you he has cause but he'll point to exactly what would have given him cause under the old system, etc.

Until people loosen up in general and just accept that their actions might have consequences - and sometimes things they didn't even do will also have consequences for them - then nothing will change.

It's the same for the other side, though. As much as being PK'd isn't a big deal, not being able to kill everyone you want to kill isn't a big deal either. Someone's sat in Nirvana? Big deal, move on and kill someone else.

Reyson

I didn't know he had, tbh, and while I'm an asshole about a great many things, I've been pretty consistently peeved that unaffiliated people jump into others' conflicts. That shit blows, and it shouldn't be possible. Or, at the very least, the punishment should fit the crime. (Even before this, I didn't jump in when Mhaldor went to break up raids in Ashtan or whatever, before the Reckoning, for that reason)

Stheno

Stheno said:

Infamy loss was flagged immediately as something that would cripple soldiers' ability to fight and pursue the enemy threatening and demolishing their home. It was brushed off, after being implemented based on the complaints of someone who has opted out of the majority of war. With that change made, the official stance seems to have shifted to "we shouldn't affect the outcome by making changes mid-war". There is now no reason not to bring a crushing force to kill guards, tank, and skip merrily off into the sunset. The result of rewarding non-aggression and heavy-handed plays is combatants slowly being bored to death.

Again, I've been infamous since day one and am happy to die to anyone, including the people now interceding on Targossas's behalf.

If you'd like to script Mhaldor as the eternal underdogs, just do that. Don't punish us for wanting to fight in a war.

I think outside agitators are fine, and @Adrik was just pleasing his Daddy, like any of us would. He'll get his.

I do have a problem with the above.

Sothantos

To be fair to the admin, I think this war system is much better designed than the last one with regards to risk.

Astarod

Ya'll need to chill. Look, the rules are clear, you can gank infamous people if infamous, soldiers if sanction is active, and citizens if they elect to defend (you need to know they're defending). People can't help you with bounties/contracts without RP justification. It's been this way the ENTIRE time I've played achaea. I've had to consider these things to avoid breaking PK law because PK law exists. These aren't magical new rules, but I'm well aware people slip up, so there's no need to demonize. @Reyson, you're out of line for bringing issues here, and posting about them. That's not something I recall being allowed on forums. 

It's simple:

Mhaldor, don't create new PK rules, and try to meet us halfway (it's ok if mistakes happen, look at my talk with @entaro). 

Targ, don't get flustered over a few L1 tanks, it's frustrating when they're illegal sanctions, but ranting for 3-4 pages here doesn't solve anything. 

It's really not that hard. We were doing so well too with getting along.

Archaeon

Reyson said:

I didn't know he had, tbh, and while I'm an asshole about a great many things, I've been pretty consistently peeved that unaffiliated people jump into others' conflicts. That shit blows, and it shouldn't be possible. Or, at the very least, the punishment should fit the crime. (Even before this, I didn't jump in when Mhaldor went to break up raids in Ashtan or whatever, before the Reckoning, for that reason)

What is Dunn

Iaxus

Sothantos said:

Anyway, yeah, it does suck that Hashan interfered. They've been doing that to us too. Adrik's actually cost us a tank before. Outside interference always feels terrible.

I think people are just not very sympathetic because people were not very sympathetic when it happened to us.

Best solution is when Hashan shows up, both sides immediately eradicate them with extreme prejudice before turning back to each other. Once the 2-3 Hashani that keep showing up get gang..ed up on by 20+ angry raiders they may rethink the dumb shit they're doing.

Reyson

Archaeon said:

Reyson said:

I didn't know he had, tbh, and while I'm an asshole about a great many things, I've been pretty consistently peeved that unaffiliated people jump into others' conflicts. That shit blows, and it shouldn't be possible. Or, at the very least, the punishment should fit the crime. (Even before this, I didn't jump in when Mhaldor went to break up raids in Ashtan or whatever, before the Reckoning, for that reason)

What is Dunn

Applying to join! 

Sobriquet

Iaxus said:

Sothantos said:

Anyway, yeah, it does suck that Hashan interfered. They've been doing that to us too. Adrik's actually cost us a tank before. Outside interference always feels terrible.

I think people are just not very sympathetic because people were not very sympathetic when it happened to us.

Best solution is when Hashan shows up, both sides immediately eradicate them with extreme prejudice before turning back to each other. Once the 2-3 Hashani that keep showing up get gang..ed up on by 20+ angry raiders they may rethink the dumb shit they're doing.

I'm just glad when people say "Hashan is interfering" they realise it's just the 3 ex Targs and sometimes Mr Farrah. 

I dont think the general populace of Hashan really cares enough to get involved either way. 

Silas

Sad thing for Hashan is, those ex-Targs are your council now, so they represent all of you. The receipt is coming after the war is over.

Micaelis

Astarod said:

Ya'll need to chill. Look, the rules are clear, you can gank infamous people if infamous, soldiers if sanction is active, and citizens if they elect to defend (you need to know they're defending). People can't help you with bounties/contracts without RP justification. It's been this way the ENTIRE time I've played achaea. I've had to consider these things to avoid breaking PK law because PK law exists. These aren't magical new rules, but I'm well aware people slip up, so there's no need to demonize. @Reyson, you're out of line for bringing issues here, and posting about them. That's not something I recall being allowed on forums. 

It's simple:

Mhaldor, don't create new PK rules, and try to meet us halfway (it's ok if mistakes happen, look at my talk with @entaro). 

Targ, don't get flustered over a few L1 tanks, it's frustrating when they're illegal sanctions, but ranting for 3-4 pages here doesn't solve anything. 

It's really not that hard. We were doing so well too with getting along.

I feel like your summary of the crimes of this war after the "It's simple:" part might be a bit biased.

Mhaldor, don't break PK rules/invent new ones and try and meet us at 50% (implying you're reaching out and they're shitting on your hand).

Targossas, don't get upset by the illegal tanks. 

We were doing so well, back when Mhaldor didn't break all the rules and gain illegal sanctions. Oh, and back when Targossas didn't...complain...about it.

Sobriquet

Silas said:

Sad thing for Hashan is, those ex-Targs are your council now, so they represent all of you. The receipt is coming after the war is over.

Unfortunately, I agree.. and no doubt when the raids come and people are apathetic to defend I know who will be looked down upon. 

Silas

Reyson said:

As someone with a recurring war bounty and infamy, on top of that, you shouldn't be able to hide in Nirvana, as far as I'm concerned, to be honest. 

As for the frivolous issues, they'll certainly be thrown out. We still have to sift through and copy from logs and write the same response, over and over, and frankly, trying to get the admins to win the war for you instead of, like, fighting the war, leaves as bad a taste in my mouth as I'm sure you have in yours. 

Given that both sides are teaming for bounties, maybe we should just accept that as a fact of life, call it a wash, eh? 

I'm fine with teaming for bounties and any other reason. Nothing makes me smile more than seeing 9 Targs rush past me then seeing some poor fucker light up deathsight twice 10s later.

Sadly for you though, as far as you're concerned is meaningless in the context of text war.

Adrik

Sothantos said:

Anyway, yeah, it does suck that Hashan interfered. They've been doing that to us too. Adrik's actually cost us a tank before. Outside interference always feels terrible.

I think people are just not very sympathetic because people were not very sympathetic when it happened to us.

I cost you a tank outside of war times, tbf.  Which is what the debt was just paid for.

During war times I've not actually fucked with y'all enough to cause a tank loss. (Despite what you may say, I only sniped one person, once, during that raid. Before phasing again and then nabbing pictures of Pandora).

Akri

Micaelis said:

Astarod said:

Ya'll need to chill. Look, the rules are clear, you can gank infamous people if infamous, soldiers if sanction is active, and citizens if they elect to defend (you need to know they're defending). People can't help you with bounties/contracts without RP justification. It's been this way the ENTIRE time I've played achaea. I've had to consider these things to avoid breaking PK law because PK law exists. These aren't magical new rules, but I'm well aware people slip up, so there's no need to demonize. @Reyson, you're out of line for bringing issues here, and posting about them. That's not something I recall being allowed on forums. 

It's simple:

Mhaldor, don't create new PK rules, and try to meet us halfway (it's ok if mistakes happen, look at my talk with @entaro). 

Targ, don't get flustered over a few L1 tanks, it's frustrating when they're illegal sanctions, but ranting for 3-4 pages here doesn't solve anything. 

It's really not that hard. We were doing so well too with getting along.

I feel like your summary of the crimes of this war after the "It's simple:" part might be a bit biased.

Mhaldor, don't break PK rules/invent new ones and try and meet us at 50% (implying you're reaching out and they're shitting on your hand).

Targossas, don't get upset by the illegal tanks. 

We were doing so well, back when Mhaldor didn't break all the rules and gain illegal sanctions. Oh, and back when Targossas didn't...complain...about it.

Silas said:
It's human nature, dude. People are only mad about shitty things that happen to them. When they happen to other people they're fine. It's not that deep.