This argument is going in a circle. My point is you're just pushing the people who don't do all the things you complain about in to doing them, whether it's now or later on.
My man. You're arguing with the guy who says he doesn't care about other people's fun, because it's not his job to make things fun for others, only himself.
Not the best person to be debating shitty mindsets with.
@Reyson is pretty historically known to other team leaders as someone who tries to organise fair fights OOC, as he would rather any response happen than no response at all. I don't think you know what you're talking about, but go off.
The point is that all soldiers (all players) have finite energy and interest, and expecting them to not play when they can, or to always be paragons of virtue, is silly. People will always point at other people, including me, so there needs to be some robustness to the system that rewards risky plays and doesn't all hinge on unspoken OOC sportsmanship. Who sets the rules and scoring for war IC? Can you explain it to me without breaking kayfabe? Trying to be perfectly even-handed and listen to all complaints from both cities is exhausting, as Sothantos would probably agree.
I am the liquor indeed.
Reaching down with a massive hand, Sartan lifts your head and draws a taloned finger across your throat, the wound closing as He does so.
No system is robust enough to handle the truth that the vast, overwhelming majority of the people who play this game do not give half a shit about whether the people they're up against are having fun or not.
While true, a system can still encourage and reward behaviour that takes risks and levels the playing field over rewarding roaming gank squads and lopsided raids.
I'd also argue it's not anyone's job to make sure the other team has fun. If you're not having fun, or are getting mad at things in a game, it's time to qq and take a breather until you feel better, I think. There's a big, big difference between "not worrying about the other side's every individual's idea of fun" and being proactively toxic and determined to make things unfun, for the record. And from what I've seen so far, not a single Targossian or Mhaldorian player falls in the latter category, even if we've all done semi-sketchy or full-on sketchy things.
I think fighting on a constant large scale throughout a daily basis isn't recreational for anyone in the end.
I'm surprised there isn't any sort of ceasefire system in place given the duration of each War. Every few days a ceasefire will be implemented, wiping infamy, or ticking it down much faster than usual, and aggressive actions against each other won't apply to the next war report.
Then each city has a chance to recuperate, resupply, assess the latest reports, and plan ahead.
Granted, part of this could be done in-game between City Leaders. I know I'd want to be a fly on the wall as a Tyrannus and Dawnlord initiate a temporary ceasfire after meeting somewhere in neutral territory to trade snarky remarks and promise one another further destruction when the lull in warefare is over.
"Alas. Alas for Hamlin. The Mayor sent east, west, north, and south. To offer the Piper by word of mouth. Wherever it was men's lot to find him, silver and gold to his heart's content. If only he'd return the way he went."
I just find it unfortunate that the people who get to have the majority of the fun are of course those who are most competent in combat. If we didn't get sent in to bash guards the very first day that would have been nice too. Fine the other side doesn't need to care if novice/midbie/whatever are enjoying themselves but I would think my own city should at least put forth some effort towards not putting us in to crappy positions such as every citizen being heavily infamous from guard bashing.
The Divine voice of Twilight echoes in your head, "See that it is. I espy a tithe of potential in your mortal soul, Astarod Blackstone. Let us hope that it flourishes and does not falter as so many do."
Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
LOOK, we all need to agree that the thing missing are Cyrenian/Eleusian protesters standing outside mdor and targ with 'make peace not war' signs, protesting the war. These protesters have to have afros and cactus weed.
This War is pointless. Why can't we all get along?
Also, check out Book 16. Where blood is profit.
Most in Eleusis are looking at how the war system is working. Plus the whole if someone from another city jumps in there are claims of an alliance. I am actually more surprised that there are not more of other cities popping in.. So no make peace protests. Also with Jinos post the thing behind that is so hilarious that its true.
Yeah. This really doesn't make a ton of sense to me either in retrospect. I thought maybe I'd gained infamy for being present for guard kills (I actually don't land a ton of kills on guards just bc I'm not a dragon, but I was around and hitting when I could) but only just remembered they removed that in room infamy gain part.
Note: not complaining about my own infamy. I totally deserve it. Just seems like something weird might be up in the balancing/accrual.
2020/06/16 03:38:45 - Ada slew a Blackrock cleric stationed at Before the doors of Damnation.
2020/06/16 03:38:58 - Lyndee slew a Blackrock cleric stationed at Before the doors of Damnation.
2020/06/16 03:39:25 - Tesha slew a Blackrock cleric stationed at Parallel aisles.
2020/06/16 03:39:49 - Vasher slew a Blackrock cleric stationed at Dim globes.
Lady Lyndee Faelithar, Seraph of Light (female Siren). (already had infamy from earlier, multiple guard killings)
She is one of the Infamous.
Tesha al Ashtad (female Siren).
She is not known for acts of infamy.
Vasher, of Targossas (male Mhun).
He is not known for acts of infamy.
Ada al Ashtad (female Siren).
She is not known for acts of infamy.
In your world, it is 2020/06/16 05:12:01 GMT
Is this lack of infamy intended?
edit: just checked previous day logs
2020/06/15 21:25:21 - Vasher slew a Blackrock cleric stationed at The pulpit.
2020/06/15 21:25:34 - Antonius slew a Blackrock cleric stationed at The pulpit.
2020/06/15 21:25:44 - Vasher slew a Blackrock cleric stationed at The pulpit.
2020/06/15 21:26:00 - Icraa slew a Blackrock cleric stationed at The pulpit.
This guy killed 3 guards, no infamy?
I'm infamous!
The Divine voice of Twilight echoes in your head, "See that it is. I espy a tithe of potential in your mortal soul, Astarod Blackstone. Let us hope that it flourishes and does not falter as so many do."
Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
They want to group gank. Can't do that with bounties. Infamy required, or uh, is it called retribution these days? We can't say the "C" word anymore.
EDIT: Not being passive aggressive, just saying why Crixos might not desire bounties as the outcome. (Same hinder we have now too)
The Divine voice of Twilight echoes in your head, "See that it is. I espy a tithe of potential in your mortal soul, Astarod Blackstone. Let us hope that it flourishes and does not falter as so many do."
Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
Yeah. This really doesn't make a ton of sense to me either in retrospect. I thought maybe I'd gained infamy for being present for guard kills (I actually don't land a ton of kills on guards just bc I'm not a dragon, but I was around and hitting when I could) but only just remembered they removed that in room infamy gain part.
Note: not complaining about my own infamy. I totally deserve it. Just seems like something weird might be up in the balancing/accrual.
Totally downplaying your contributions! But I'm not singling you out in particular
They want to group gank. Can't do that with bounties. Infamy required, or uh, is it called retribution these days? We can't say the "C" word anymore.
EDIT: Not being passive aggressive, just saying why Crixos might not desire bounties as the outcome. (Same hinder we have now too)
Constant participation (2 irl days) as the aggressor including killing guards, should make and keep you infamous as generally speaking, guard killings aren't commonplace.
Regarding group ganking; also incorrect in this case (though, partly because I don't have a consistent earring group).
It's mostly because I see them out and about without a care in the world after nonchalantly slaying blackrock cleric #12345. The threat of reprisal should always be there.
Soldiers who are fine with attacking each other whenever could perhaps take a look at HELP RIVALS
Sure, just rival each and every enemy soldier who's okay with it, both ways. You do realize that's incredibly cumbersome and there's no IC way to get a list like that? Rivals are clearly for two individuals, not every soldier on both sides who's okay with being open pk. Dauntless would be a better suggestion, though then you're open to every possible attacker.
Soldiers who are fine with attacking each other whenever could perhaps take a look at HELP RIVALS
Sure, just rival each and every enemy soldier who's okay with it, both ways. You do realize that's incredibly cumbersome and there's no IC way to get a list like that? Rivals are clearly for two individuals, not every soldier on both sides who's okay with being open pk. Dauntless would be a better suggestion, though then you're open to every possible attacker.
Sure there's no IC way of getting it, but the rivalry system is an OOC system anyway. Besides you probably won't get anymore than 7-10 names either
I really don't get the obsession with consequence-free raiding. How is it not valid to say 'Hello. My name is a Inigo Montoya. You destroyed my church. Prepare to die'?
This notion that only one of us should be able to come after you for ganking guards and Citymates less than 24 hours ago seems super silly, to me. If you don't want to deal with the consequences of PvP, don't PvP, right? Any reason for generating such little infamy right now, @Makarios?
Idk how you can say that when 90 percent of the war. Raid or bank then sit on ship or guards. It's all consequence free because no one leaves their respective cities
It seems like this war has devolved into people hiding so that they don't accidently make a mistake and get a sanction, leading to a off peak tank blowing up and being 'the guy who got our beautiful statue blown up'
(Party): Crixos says, "Open your wunjos, people of Sapience."
This notion that only one of us should be able to come after you for ganking guards and Citymates less than 24 hours ago seems super silly, to me. If you don't want to deal with the consequences of PvP, don't PvP, right? Any reason for generating such little infamy right now, @Makarios?
The infamy gained from raiding without guard bashing under normal circumstances has usually been a fair amount in my opinion, they should try to keep it around that ideally and more for when guards are killed but being infamous for an entire week without having participated in fights every day throughout that time has really sucked. So I understand why that was too much and why they would lower it. I haven't been able to do any of the things unrelated to combat that I enjoy because going outside the city is essentially a death sentence at this time for someone like me against many of you.
So to boil down the issues into a format the devs can read, I've got:
People are afraid of dying and as such are risk adverse.
The system encourages off peak raids/guard bashing
The system encourages ganking
The system discourages 1v1
The system discourages having fair raids
The system encourages hiding if not ganking/raiding
The system leaves little room for people without substantial earring networks, urns etc from doing much due to infamy
We would like some PvE element where it's not all focused on those who can PK. Maybe theological debates or some focused ship combat. Try to include all spheres of player.
(Party): Crixos says, "Open your wunjos, people of Sapience."
What's the ruling on non-soldiers defending, anyway? I know they risk xp loss as opposed to defending soldiers, but when you add this into a war, you get risk-free defenders who won't charge tank, won't give up kills, but do add bodies for raiders to overcome and can even move guards, or potentially raise shrines to worldburn. This doesn't seem very fair in a war environment, imo, when they don't risk giving up anything.
How does pk ruling even work here? Are all citizens allowed to attack invading raiders? Just soldiers? Is there any consequence to defending, or even raiding, without being a soldier? Obviously there's bounties and infamy for raiding, but... eh. Outside a war, I wouldn't care about this. I'd even be happy for more people to fight! But idk, this seems like a weird grey area where I don't know if I'm now allowed to attack the non-soldiers for messing with us, consider them hostile defenders from the start in future raids, or am not allowed to do jack until they suckerpunch me first. What's the rule here, @Makarios ?
Comments
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
@Reyson is pretty historically known to other team leaders as someone who tries to organise fair fights OOC, as he would rather any response happen than no response at all. I don't think you know what you're talking about, but go off.
The point is that all soldiers (all players) have finite energy and interest, and expecting them to not play when they can, or to always be paragons of virtue, is silly. People will always point at other people, including me, so there needs to be some robustness to the system that rewards risky plays and doesn't all hinge on unspoken OOC sportsmanship. Who sets the rules and scoring for war IC? Can you explain it to me without breaking kayfabe? Trying to be perfectly even-handed and listen to all complaints from both cities is exhausting, as Sothantos would probably agree.
I am the liquor indeed.
Reaching down with a massive hand, Sartan lifts your head and draws a taloned finger across your throat, the wound closing as He does so.
I'd also argue it's not anyone's job to make sure the other team has fun. If you're not having fun, or are getting mad at things in a game, it's time to qq and take a breather until you feel better, I think. There's a big, big difference between "not worrying about the other side's every individual's idea of fun" and being proactively toxic and determined to make things unfun, for the record. And from what I've seen so far, not a single Targossian or Mhaldorian player falls in the latter category, even if we've all done semi-sketchy or full-on sketchy things.
I'm surprised there isn't any sort of ceasefire system in place given the duration of each War. Every few days a ceasefire will be implemented, wiping infamy, or ticking it down much faster than usual, and aggressive actions against each other won't apply to the next war report.
Then each city has a chance to recuperate, resupply, assess the latest reports, and plan ahead.
Granted, part of this could be done in-game between City Leaders. I know I'd want to be a fly on the wall as a Tyrannus and Dawnlord initiate a temporary ceasfire after meeting somewhere in neutral territory to trade snarky remarks and promise one another further destruction when the lull in warefare is over.
I'll bring the illegal weapons.
Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
In your world, it is 2020/06/16 05:12:01 GMT
Is this lack of infamy intended?
edit: just checked previous day logs
Note: not complaining about my own infamy. I totally deserve it. Just seems like something weird might be up in the balancing/accrual.
Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
EDIT: Not being passive aggressive, just saying why Crixos might not desire bounties as the outcome. (Same hinder we have now too)
Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
Reaching down with a massive hand, Sartan lifts your head and draws a taloned finger across your throat, the wound closing as He does so.
Yes, you are. Not relevant here.
Constant participation (2 irl days) as the aggressor including killing guards, should make and keep you infamous as generally speaking, guard killings aren't commonplace.
It's mostly because I see them out and about without a care in the world after nonchalantly slaying blackrock cleric #12345. The threat of reprisal should always be there.
I'd be fine with infamy going down quickly if the person is dying(and not just hiding away to let it fade)
This notion that only one of us should be able to come after you for ganking guards and Citymates less than 24 hours ago seems super silly, to me. If you don't want to deal with the consequences of PvP, don't PvP, right? Any reason for generating such little infamy right now, @Makarios?
People are afraid of dying and as such are risk adverse.
The system encourages off peak raids/guard bashing
The system encourages ganking
The system discourages 1v1
The system discourages having fair raids
The system encourages hiding if not ganking/raiding
The system leaves little room for people without substantial earring networks, urns etc from doing much due to infamy
How does pk ruling even work here? Are all citizens allowed to attack invading raiders? Just soldiers? Is there any consequence to defending, or even raiding, without being a soldier? Obviously there's bounties and infamy for raiding, but... eh. Outside a war, I wouldn't care about this. I'd even be happy for more people to fight! But idk, this seems like a weird grey area where I don't know if I'm now allowed to attack the non-soldiers for messing with us, consider them hostile defenders from the start in future raids, or am not allowed to do jack until they suckerpunch me first. What's the rule here, @Makarios ?