I'm seriously hoping that something good comes out of this for Hashan. The city has nothing but potential and I honestly think they need a catalyst like this to get out of their "neutral" stand point.
Be careful what you wish for. Shallam got a 'catalyst', and I'm not sure that it was the one they were expecting.
Hashan isn't as convoluted in ideals as Shallam was. They have a better aim in what the city stands for and what it should represent. It shouldn't be that complicated or tough for them to rise up as a powerhouse. I was shocked to hear about Shallam's big splash down but I think in the long run it will rise again with a more concrete and structured feel.
I'm seriously hoping that something good comes out of this for Hashan. The city has nothing but potential and I honestly think they need a catalyst like this to get out of their "neutral" stand point.
I think the fact they tried to raid us back is a good sign. They lost 20+ shrines in about 12 hours so its good to see they didn't just roll over.
Just shrines, not like they are important, or even hard to remove.
Nothing can be done that's truly important, or hard to undo. Guards, damaged rooms, deaths in and out of city, it's all inconsequential. So yes, you're right. No one can touch you.
I'm seriously hoping that something good comes out of this for Hashan. The city has nothing but potential and I honestly think they need a catalyst like this to get out of their "neutral" stand point.
I think the fact they tried to raid us back is a good sign. They lost 20+ shrines in about 12 hours so its good to see they didn't just roll over.
Just shrines, not like they are important, or even hard to remove.
This sort of attitude does nothing for us as a city. Conflict is conflict. Wounds should be felt. Doesn't mean the injured party need cry or cower, but damage done in the ways available to us as players should not just be ICly brushed off as if it had zero meaning.
They apathy towards shrines is a precedent Twilight left in past conflicts. The transcendent followers of Darkness are not concerned with such mundane things and such. While *Shallam does have a penchant for defiling shrines it does not mean that this old precedent should be continued since it was mostly an excuse for the inability of anyone to actually stand up for his shrines. Nonetheless, Hashan does not need to moan and cry over them either. OHMAHGAWD TEH SHRINES!
No one's expecting you to "moan and cry over them". The mindset that defeat is impossible, therefore nothing needs to be done, is typical Hashan.
*shallam has a penchant for defiling shrines? Just *shallam? You yourself wanted conflict - seriously, what did you expect? Something new and completely different?
Coming from someone who has seen a great deal of shrine "conflict" I look at shrines this way:
Rushing to witness when it's obviously just an opportunity to gank is of no use to the Order. Rushing to a room away and squinting in to know who your enemy is, sure. Chances are if you throw your life at them, they're just going to use your body to defile further.
Feeling the blow of a shrine being defiled should be important, but not whine worthy. I've rebuilt more shrines than I can count and often emote some sort of ceremony with each one. It is a job well done, on behalf of mortals, to show respect and loyalty to a Divine, and should be treated as such.
Getting the enemy back. While I personally suck at combat, I can fully respect its role in the game. I prefer a bit of trash-talk (even if it gets me killed) or retaliating in kind to their offensive, by defiling shrines in return. Personally, I generally defile alone and wait a few minutes. My actions have consequences, and if Wattsee is mad enough to defile, he's certainly mad enough to let everyone know it was him. Do I sit on a full stack of vibrations and wait to gank? No. Do I def the hell up and reflection whore? Absolutely. It's not my intention to die, it's my intention to be disrespectful/harmful on a theological level.
They apathy towards shrines is a precedent Twilight left in past conflicts. The transcendent followers of Darkness are not concerned with such mundane things and such. While *Shallam does have a penchant for defiling shrines it does not mean that this old precedent should be continued since it was mostly an excuse for the inability of anyone to actually stand up for his shrines. Nonetheless, Hashan does not need to moan and cry over them either. OHMAHGAWD TEH SHRINES!
No one's expecting you to "moan and cry over them". The mindset that defeat is impossible, therefore nothing needs to be done, is typical Hashan.
*shallam has a penchant for defiling shrines? Just *shallam? You yourself wanted conflict - seriously, what did you expect? Something new and completely different?
You do not think Hashan knows what defeat is? I am sure all those around for the Qashari occupations would testify against that, and *Shallam does have a penchant for defiling that is merely a fact. No need for the hostile tone here in the forums, not sure where that is stemming from; it is only a game, man.
They apathy towards shrines is a precedent Twilight left in past conflicts. The transcendent followers of Darkness are not concerned with such mundane things and such. While *Shallam does have a penchant for defiling shrines it does not mean that this old precedent should be continued since it was mostly an excuse for the inability of anyone to actually stand up for his shrines. Nonetheless, Hashan does not need to moan and cry over them either. OHMAHGAWD TEH SHRINES!
(~35 shrines)
lol...and Ashtan griefs people? Sounds like Aurora needs to hop on Lathis and scold him/herself.
No one's expecting you to "moan and cry over them". The mindset that defeat is impossible, therefore nothing needs to be done, is typical Hashan.
*shallam has a penchant for defiling shrines? Just *shallam? You yourself wanted conflict - seriously, what did you expect? Something new and completely different?
You do not think Hashan knows what defeat is? I am sure all those around for the Qashari occupations would testify against that, and *Shallam does have a penchant for defiling that is merely a fact. No need for the hostile tone here in the forums, not sure where that is stemming from; it is only a game, man.
I am fine with things thus far, I was just giving an explanation for the reigning thought process. I have not been in game too much in the last couple days but Twilight's dormancy and the lessened influence of his order at current might be contributing to the fact that not many see it as something to be overly concerned with, not that that is ok, I may have to stress the importance of defending our founder a bit more.
Even still, Twilight's order is relatively small and unlikely to always call for help when shrines are being attacked. Defiling is a fine opener but it is a boring form of conflict overall.
I'm confused by this thread. I feel like both sides want conflict, but our side wants PvP conflict and their side wants not PvP conflict. Okay, maybe I'm not confused.
I'm confused by this thread. I feel like both sides want conflict, but our side wants PvP conflict and their side wants not PvP conflict. Okay, maybe I'm not confused.
Since the subject came up: shrines (and shrine conflicts, generally) are tedious, useful only because they tend to facilitate other, more interesting, avenues of conflict. Nobody cares how many shrines anyone's able to drop (well, a couple of people go berserk over it, but those kinds of people aren't really properly put together, mentally speaking, any way), and honestly, nobody should get upset over (or be proud because you employed) a legion of people mindlessly (and possibly auto-) bashing up the essence to drop shrines. Shrines are far more lackluster a method of conflict than city destruction or even guard killing could ever be. I mean, any lolalt interested in (or dedicated to) griefing can drop a number of them without much effort, which isn't true of the other two examples.
Of course, if you're into PK and you're defiling orders whose
membership contains people who are also into PK, it's a great way to get
combat on demand, I suppose, but those assumptions don't really apply
to the rest of Achaea as a whole.
Also, @Thaumas, Lorielan (until very recently) was a Good god, and that Order didn't care at all about shrines either. It happens. Furthermore, given the sort of place that Hashan is, and given the importance of information control, it's perfectly valid RP for @Vayne to have his population believe that defeat is impossible. Hell, that's the reason propaganda's existed for most of recorded history in some way, shape, or form. (Granted, when people invariably rise up to make posts in the City or on public, I would really, really prefer that the phrase 'we do not negotiate with terrorists' make an appearance this time.)
On topic, I love Hashan's neutrality because Hashan isn't neutral; it's "neutral." That is to say, my impression is that Hashan is pro-Hashan first, pro-its Gods a close second (and depending on the God, those two priorities might have the order reversed), and in a distant third is everything else, and if you make a deal with Hashan or the Hashani, there's very much a sense of constantly having to question 'what are they getting out of it?' It's all about the mind games, of which there aren't enough in Achaea any more.
No one's expecting you to "moan and cry over them". The mindset that defeat is impossible, therefore nothing needs to be done, is typical Hashan.
*shallam has a penchant for defiling shrines? Just *shallam? You yourself wanted conflict - seriously, what did you expect? Something new and completely different?
You do not think Hashan knows what defeat is? I am sure all those around for the Qashari occupations would testify against that, and *Shallam does have a penchant for defiling that is merely a fact. No need for the hostile tone here in the forums, not sure where that is stemming from; it is only a game, man.
I remember quite clearly that when Qashar were raiding Hashan so bad, while people were urging other people to issue (lol) and then when someone would try to provoke Hashan with defeat saying it's hugely damaging the city coffers, there was a response like Oh, we're too rich, lol, we'll just replace the guards you killed. No dents on our coffers here!
What I'm saying is that while shrine conflict is annoying, most people would probably think an organization has the balls to play with the big boys when they can strike back. Dismissing successful pk attempts are typically what losers do to save face in most organizations.
I guess an organization can RP something to beat the other guy in a nonPK way however I guess that's something that needs to be sooo ossum and something that I haven't really seen yet in Achaea.
That said, with Hashan looking to be better than it was during the Qashari days, there is much more potential in really getting involved in conflict.
Bleh, work ate my gaming life. 내가 제일 잘 나가!!!111!!1
You do not think Hashan knows what defeat is? I am sure all those around for the Qashari occupations would testify against that, and *Shallam does have a penchant for defiling that is merely a fact. No need for the hostile tone here in the forums, not sure where that is stemming from; it is only a game, man.
Personally, I actually think the Qashar raids are a perfect example of Hashan refusing to admit/accept defeat. The Qashar smashed Hashan's collective back doors in on a nightly basis, but Hashan absolutely refused to accept that they'd lost.
Of course, this isn't a problem localised to Hashan. The entire game suffers from a refusal to actually lose, because people know that game mechanics won't let them. It's always been a huge problem, though I hope that Bal'met killing previously untouchable Gods might allow people to start to break out of it.
Wait, we just started and now we're talking about losing? Wtf.
Losing, or even winning, is the worst thing that could happen to hashan right now, because it would resolve the conflict. More than anything, we need to keep fighting.
Mostly, it's just kind of disappointing for Hashan to be like "shrines don't mean anything, lol" -- I know I at least feel a small twinge of disappointment whenever I see a shrine go down. It's not the best indicator of a winner or a loser, but it's the general attitude that's frustrating on our end.
People who brush shrines off as meaningless aren't really any different from people who refuse to accept defeat in any other area. Regardless of the tedious mechanics of shrine conflict, shrines act as a visible indicator of the influence of your chosen Patron in the same way that Icons prove the dominance of your city.
Inability to keep up your shrines does have meaning. In every case, it's either shown the inability or unwillingness of an Order to fight for its God, or it's shown that the Order has bitten off more than they can chew. The attitude of "lol, shrines [or whatever other form of conflict] are meaningless" is bad for the game.
You do not think Hashan knows what defeat is? I am sure all those around for the Qashari occupations would testify against that, and *Shallam does have a penchant for defiling that is merely a fact. No need for the hostile tone here in the forums, not sure where that is stemming from; it is only a game, man.
Personally, I actually think the Qashar raids are a perfect example of Hashan refusing to admit/accept defeat. The Qashar smashed Hashan's collective back doors in on a nightly basis, but Hashan absolutely refused to accept that they'd lost.
Of course, this isn't a problem localised to Hashan. The entire game suffers from a refusal to actually lose, because people know that game mechanics won't let them. It's always been a huge problem, though I hope that Bal'met killing previously untouchable Gods might allow people to start to break out of it.
Wait. So what has Ashtan been doing to you all these years?
Comments
*shallam has a penchant for defiling shrines? Just *shallam? You yourself wanted conflict - seriously, what did you expect? Something new and completely different?
Rushing to witness when it's obviously just an opportunity to gank is of no use to the Order. Rushing to a room away and squinting in to know who your enemy is, sure. Chances are if you throw your life at them, they're just going to use your body to defile further.
Feeling the blow of a shrine being defiled should be important, but not whine worthy. I've rebuilt more shrines than I can count and often emote some sort of ceremony with each one. It is a job well done, on behalf of mortals, to show respect and loyalty to a Divine, and should be treated as such.
Getting the enemy back. While I personally suck at combat, I can fully respect its role in the game. I prefer a bit of trash-talk (even if it gets me killed) or retaliating in kind to their offensive, by defiling shrines in return. Personally, I generally defile alone and wait a few minutes. My actions have consequences, and if Wattsee is mad enough to defile, he's certainly mad enough to let everyone know it was him. Do I sit on a full stack of vibrations and wait to gank? No. Do I def the hell up and reflection whore? Absolutely. It's not my intention to die, it's my intention to be disrespectful/harmful on a theological level.
(~35 shrines)
You do not think Hashan knows what defeat is? I am sure all those around for the Qashari occupations would testify against that, and *Shallam does have a penchant for defiling that is merely a fact. No need for the hostile tone here in the forums, not sure where that is stemming from; it is only a game, man.
Even still, Twilight's order is relatively small and unlikely to always call for help when shrines are being attacked. Defiling is a fine opener but it is a boring form of conflict overall.
Of course, if you're into PK and you're defiling orders whose membership contains people who are also into PK, it's a great way to get combat on demand, I suppose, but those assumptions don't really apply to the rest of Achaea as a whole.
Also, @Thaumas, Lorielan (until very recently) was a Good god, and that Order didn't care at all about shrines either. It happens. Furthermore, given the sort of place that Hashan is, and given the importance of information control, it's perfectly valid RP for @Vayne to have his population believe that defeat is impossible. Hell, that's the reason propaganda's existed for most of recorded history in some way, shape, or form. (Granted, when people invariably rise up to make posts in the City or on public, I would really, really prefer that the phrase 'we do not negotiate with terrorists' make an appearance this time.)
On topic, I love Hashan's neutrality because Hashan isn't neutral; it's "neutral." That is to say, my impression is that Hashan is pro-Hashan first, pro-its Gods a close second (and depending on the God, those two priorities might have the order reversed), and in a distant third is everything else, and if you make a deal with Hashan or the Hashani, there's very much a sense of constantly having to question 'what are they getting out of it?' It's all about the mind games, of which there aren't enough in Achaea any more.
내가 제일 잘 나가!!!111!!1
Damn it, @Darroth.