Hashan Thread

Achilles

Cyrene doesn't need our help most of the time save time zone issues.  Maybe a couple more people to lead the pack but they have the population to fend off small-medium sized groups on their own.

Mizik

Mizik said:

What makes it -really- amusing is that this Ashtani 80% is 4 dudes and the other 20% are the entirety of the Hashani population online every single time Shallam decides to bring an Icon Conquering Force (ICF) to raid.

@Silas and @Achilles

?

I was there every time, I know how many people there were on each side. That was my whole point. If the fighting portion of a small Order outnumbers the amount of people in the least combative's city's CWHO against *shallam's ICF, there's a problem.

Trust me. You don't want Hashan joining your @Tecton complaint mailing list.

Ourania

I am glad that the whole rich history Hashan has, has boiled down to 'lol Ashtan and Hashan, sitting in a tree trololol pking', but being more constructive in this otherwise useful thread would aid

Tvistor

If everyone just never defends a city they aren't a citizen of (provided no new alien Gods are about to invade) we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Iocun

Luckily we can all defend the refugees, since they don't have a city.

Tvistor

Yeah, they seem friendly enough, go for it.

Achilles

Tvistor said:

Yeah, they seem friendly enough, go for it.

We are, just give us some notice so we can freshen up.

Kyrra

Just a random FYI but Ashtan actually defended Cyrene for two or three raids.

And refugees are not friendly. They are hostile, get off our lawn or we'll cut off your head type folk.

Tanris

I've defended Hashan twice for sure, maybe one or two times I'm not remembering but I'm pretty sure its three times at the most. In every instance Shallam were rolling with five plus dragons plus extra against a force I could probably kill with one other experienced combatant. I personally have no issue with this: that's Achaea, happens sometimes. Complaining that Hashan aren't standing on their own when you take a group that they have absolutely 0 chance of combatting even if every member of their cwho knew what they were doing though is laughable. Should probably throw out this is precisely why we don't fight Cyrene anymore, btw. If we want to fight Shallam we go to New Hope. (Your few Shallamese defending Cyrene needs to account we tend to raid with five-six tops against Cyrene, and when you're bringing four more capable people to an already large zerg, well you do the calculations).

Anyhow, constructive time!

Hashan seems to be doing better overall. I'm sure there are still those people who make you cringe on ct, but if its following a similar trend to Ashtan the number of those has likely vastly decreased, so its the exception not the rule. At the end of the day though, Hashan hasn't got to meet anyone's expectations. If they're going in the direction they want to go in, its their city and they are under no obligation to fill the perceived position that other factions would prefer. (Same argument as for New Shallam.)

Dunn

Ourania said:

I am glad that the whole rich history Hashan has, has boiled down to 'lol Ashtan and Hashan, sitting in a tree trololol pking', but being more constructive in this otherwise useful thread would aid

Holy f-ing s- I love you.

Also, the past few times Hashan has been raided, I asked Ourania if she needed our help (because our orders are allied), and she declined.

Namino

I'm really late to this thread, but as far as I can see, Hashan has improved enormously since I was Hashani some 200+ IG years ago, if only evidenced by the fact that numerous Hashani were participating from jump street in the Bal'met/Ormyrr stuff. I implies to me that the current incarnation of Hashani leadership is differentiating between impartiality and apathy.

In comparison, I had to quit Hashan in order to participate in a different world event -- Hashani weren't allowed to fight the Vertani, and that was even after they terk er jerbs razed Thera to the ground.

Tvistor

Namino, your signature. It's amazing.

Namino

It was a seriously close competition. I had like ten gifs to choose from.

But while I'm derailing...

I just realized all of Achaea's major problems since inception have been caused by immigrants coming into Sapience.

Dunn

DERK DERBS.

Ruth

Achilles said:

The problem with Hashan is it will always be seen as Ashtan's trash (its the Jersey of Achaea).  They let Ashtani into their houses, rely on them heavily to defend their own city and as a result they lack a strong identity.

Until they stand up and do the bulk of the work themselves they will be viewed externally as riding Ashtan's coattails. 

I agree with this, mainly for the statement of allowing Ashtani in their Houses. Whatever happened to city-affiliated Houses and the entrenched history behind them? I'll use an example and bring up the reason why Twilight split the Ashura into the Ashura and the Kharon in the first place. Alliance is well and good, grandfathering in the pre-existing old non-Hashani members is okay but continuing to accept citizens other than Hashani still and supporting the dilution of Hashan's identity?

Vayne

Well the reason behind the influx of Ashtani into the Serpentlords and Lotus a few months back was the utter shambles the Shadowsnakes and Ashura were in, at least leadership-wise, at that point. I ensured the Serpentlords were far more particular about who we inducted and am happy for the most part with the outcome. Also, some have been called back to Ashtan recently as well. The Lotus unfortunately had a terrible stint of leadership with Branwen then Deladan who admitted anyone who was former Kharon than basically anyone they felt like. The Lotus has righted themselves now, I believe, as have the SS and Ashura, so I expect to see less cross city membership in the future.

EDIT: I'm keeping Mycen though.

Jacen

We stopped accepting Ashtani soon after I got HL.

@Ruth

Ruth

Comforting to hear that, at least!

Imy, @Jacen.

Jacen

From an IG standpoint, it made perfect sense. Ashtan and Hashan we're already close, Ashura was losing members due to internal issues, Lotus stood to profit.  Its also absolutely amazing to have two brilliant combatants to comment on our combat talk, and discuss tactics, class characteristics, and so on. 

Gameplay I completely understand the problems, which is why I put a stop to it. Its splits the Lotus's interests, generalizes our identity, and yeah, takes away from the Hashan standing on its own thing. Putting a stop to it was the right action, I'm sure, but I wouldn't go so far as to say Deladan was wrong for allowing it. Our House has definitely grown in combat with their aid.

Namino

Ruth said:

Imy, @Jacen.

Jacen

I had to google imy.....

Cooper

Cinya said:

Talonia said:

Good's response to these characteristics was not to demand personal moral fortitude on the part of its own characters (and thereby lend rise to interesting struggles against the self in many of its members), but rather to minimize the chance that they'd come into contact with those that could challenge their beliefs and get them to think differently.  No single member of Good will ever walk into the lion's nest (Fire and Spice, the Crossroads, etc.) and talk philosophy, and the Chaos/Dark faction members who try to do so in Good settlements are chased away, not philosophically dueled.  

Quoted for emphasis. This is what I've most often found to be true - things like this and last night when Vayne and I went out of our way to try and RP with "Shallam", and were essentially treated as a joke. I understand that it might be IC not to trust Vayne, but there were better ways to handle that than "lol you guys, it was probably some kids pulling a prank, go on home now". It's ridiculously unfair to do that, and then turn around and call us insular. 

For clarity, again, I am not saying that Hashan doesn't need any work. I'm simply saying that it is much better than it's reputation implies, and we can try to be less insular if you'll stop assuming that none of us are worth dealing with. 

Your character has intentionally betrayed Shallam twice in the last ~100 years, to two of our biggest enemies. Your character hangs out with Darkwalkers now. It's not reasonable to expect ex-Shallam to trust you or want to talk to you.

Aktillum

I'd like the refugees to raid Hashan, it'd be a good way for the smaller combatants on both sides to cut their teeth on group pvp. We don't really have a reason to though. Not going to throw together a party and say "lets raid Hashan, they're dark and stuff". If 30 refugees were online, I'd probably get 3 - 5 to be gung-ho about raiding Hashan. Which is totally enough for a Hashan raid, but I forgot where I was going with this.

@Cinya Aktillum would've done the same to anyone else. It wasn't anything to do with "lol go away you guys". If you think he treated that situation like a joke, you should've seen him passing around a bottle rum shots and telling refugees to "drink like they're homeless".

Asmodron

Hashan needs to look back and see what it once was and why the darkbows are known as "the infamous darkbows of Hashan".

Asmodron

Aktillum said:

I'd like the refugees to raid Hashan, it'd be a good way for the smaller combatants on both sides to cut their teeth on group pvp. We don't really have a reason to though. Not going to throw together a party and say "lets raid Hashan, they're dark and stuff". If 30 refugees were online, I'd probably get 3 - 5 to be gung-ho about raiding Hashan. Which is totally enough for a Hashan raid, but I forgot where I was going with this.

@Cinya Aktillum would've done the same to anyone else. It wasn't anything to do with "lol go away you guys". If you think he treated that situation like a joke, you should've seen him passing around a bottle and telling refugees to "drink like they're homeless".

Also you guys could just take over and move in. A war of desperation!!

P.S: Please kill Ze'haya too, then leave the body there so that it can be taken to the buckawns and made into the dracolich again

Tvistor

Aktillum best jester IG if that bottle thing actually happened.

Aktillum

It was just rum shots. Beya would've actually emoted through it with a reacting bottle.

Cinya

@Cooper - Cinya hardly even spoke when they visited Hashan, for those very reasons, among others. 

Can everyone agree to drop the statue example? I think people are grossly overestimating how much I cared about that one isolated event. I only brought it up because it was recent, and now it's been beaten to death past the point of being productive.

I'm willing to accept, as @Tvistor and others have said, that Hashan still has some work to do. I was never trying to whine that Hashan is THE BEST TEXT CITY EVER, WHY DON'T YOU GUYS SEE IT. I just had a problem with things like people telling noobs on forums that Hashan isn't a good place for RP, and the derogatory kernel of truth that most people seem to see in the bottom of all the "Hashan doesn't exist" jokes. 

We're doing a lot better and are actively working on it, please don't make us look hopeless in front of impressionable fresh blood. That's all I ask. 

Aktillum

ohshi I didn't realize I was quoting all the way back from page 2. I have not been following this thread.

Tvistor

I would apologize for scaring newbies away from Hashan but my ego won't allow it.

Just think Tvistor is apologizing and it'll be close enough.