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Hashan Thread

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  • RuthRuth Singapore
    edited January 2013
    You should come RP at me more, @Vayne. I do miss our tense interactions back before hostilities rose!

    /derail

    In all honesty though, Ourania has been doing a good job filling in the space Twilight left when he vanished. The way she approached things is of course different from how Twilight would have done it, but it seems to have worked decently for Hashan. They've always been focused on strengthening ties to Ashtan and they've now accomplished that. The estranged relationship with Shallam also seems to have come to hostilities, which indicates good progression from past to present. Same can be said about Hashan-Mhaldor relationship. Would agree with others who said Hashan needs more combatants. Definitely something to work on, because often an org or an org leader can only show that they mean what they say if they have the stones and ability to back up their statements, physically or otherwise.
    "Mummy, I'm hungry, but there's no one to eat! :C"

     

  • ArgysArgys
    This topic gets me excited to get home (foozle traveling).

  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
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  • AislingAisling
    Cinya said:
    Talonia said:
    Good's response to these characteristics was not to demand personal moral fortitude on the part of its own characters (and thereby lend rise to interesting struggles against the self in many of its members), but rather to minimize the chance that they'd come into contact with those that could challenge their beliefs and get them to think differently.  No single member of Good will ever walk into the lion's nest (Fire and Spice, the Crossroads, etc.) and talk philosophy, and the Chaos/Dark faction members who try to do so in Good settlements are chased away, not philosophically dueled.  

    Quoted for emphasis. This is what I've most often found to be true - things like this and last night when Vayne and I went out of our way to try and RP with "Shallam", and were essentially treated as a joke. I understand that it might be IC not to trust Vayne, but there were better ways to handle that than "lol you guys, it was probably some kids pulling a prank, go on home now". It's ridiculously unfair to do that, and then turn around and call us insular. 

    For clarity, again, I am not saying that Hashan doesn't need any work. I'm simply saying that it is much better than it's reputation implies, and we can try to be less insular if you'll stop assuming that none of us are worth dealing with. 
    That is why you kidnap them!
  • DraekarDraekar
    Cinya said:
    Talonia said:
    Good's response to these characteristics was not to demand personal moral fortitude on the part of its own characters (and thereby lend rise to interesting struggles against the self in many of its members), but rather to minimize the chance that they'd come into contact with those that could challenge their beliefs and get them to think differently.  No single member of Good will ever walk into the lion's nest (Fire and Spice, the Crossroads, etc.) and talk philosophy, and the Chaos/Dark faction members who try to do so in Good settlements are chased away, not philosophically dueled.  

    Quoted for emphasis. This is what I've most often found to be true - things like this and last night when Vayne and I went out of our way to try and RP with "Shallam", and were essentially treated as a joke. I understand that it might be IC not to trust Vayne, but there were better ways to handle that than "lol you guys, it was probably some kids pulling a prank, go on home now". It's ridiculously unfair to do that, and then turn around and call us insular. 

    For clarity, again, I am not saying that Hashan doesn't need any work. I'm simply saying that it is much better than it's reputation implies, and we can try to be less insular if you'll stop assuming that none of us are worth dealing with. 


    I made that call IC regarding the response to the visit by Vayne and Cinya, and since it seemed to have gone so well I should probably explain a little

     

    1. We don't have a leadership structure as Aarash Kheyr yet, and we are not currently permitted to represent the order in formal engagements or discussions either without the approval of @Aurora. Primarily because the order is only a week old and we have to earn the rank and trust of @Aurora first. If time was given to run this matter past @Aurora first we might have been able to meet with you, but this won't happen on a whim, which is as it should be at this time.

    2. I don't know why enemies and darkwalkers would expect to have a group of leaders drop what they are doing and give them a respectable audience at all, let alone without notice. Given the on-going hostilities between our groupings I thought it was perfectly acceptable RP for the few leaders about to continue with our more pressing business and send an emissary/representative to see what you wanted.

    Now to the bit where our emissary treated you both as a joke, well that wasn't our intention. I certainly lol'd, but it won't happen again on my watch.

     

     

  • TanrisTanris

    @Achilles:
    maybe you misunderstood me. Discussion happened about 3 months before the first raid, not during it.


    @Goggo:
    Hate to break the news, but you're not the only city that raids Hashan.

  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
    @Tanris - No, I understand you may have been in the process of discussing it.  What is clear is that it wasn't finalized and the discussions apparently continued/concluded whilst Hashan was being raided.
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  • VayneVayne Rhode Island
    First, let me applaud every for their constructive comments and criticisms thus far. It is good to clear the air sometimes.

    @Jiraishin Beyond being an enemy, I have no problem interacting with you, although Vayne will do so rather harshly. I know the one instance that you were referring too and I thought you were referring to a different necklace that he had...sorry.

    @Achilles There was already an agreement in place that Nihilist's would be unenemied to aid Hashan in defense and offense, it just so happened that the instance you are referring to was the first raid after that agreement was struck. You activated my trap card, I suppose we could say?

    @Ruth I actually look for you quite often but when I do you are always in Mhaldor or at sea. :(

    @Silas Ya, I am not happy with the reasons for the conflict, I think they could be less Babelly and more Hashani in nature but it is what it is now.

    @Refugees As for last night interactions I was greeted by Draqoom and Caladbolg(non-refugess if I am correct) and then directed towards Aktillum who Vayne has a particular distaste for(no offense). I did not expect Silas and Halos to march out, I just wanted to talk to someone more reputable. I concede it was a flop and spur of the moment thing, I was tired and wanted to go to bed. :P Oh well, message delivered.
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  • CinyaCinya
    edited January 2013
    I don't actually care how the thing yesterday went, @Silas. You know me better than that. It was just the most recent example that came to mind. I can give you several more, if you'd actually like me to list them out, but I'm not butthurt enough that I feel the need to complain about them individually. 

    I didn't care that "Shallam" did nothing, or even who we met with, I was just disappointed in the tone. We were literally told that "it would be silly" to even consider that our news might be linked to anything remotely substantive. If you don't trust us, that's understandable - please tell us so, or at least treat us with suspicion. That's fun for both parties. Don't make us feel like idiots for actively coming to you in hopes of RP, and then make jokes about how we don't exist.

    I hope you can understand my point. Forums do influence opinions, whether or not we realise it, and I don't want people hating on us unwarranted when we're improving. 
    Mathonwy said:
    dactylic hexameter is     way more interesting than the inside of anyone's vagina.
  • RuthRuth Singapore
    Vayne said:


    @Ruth I actually look for you quite often but when I do you are always in Mhaldor or at sea. :(

    One consequence of allowing Kinilan to corrupt me! I might be out on the seas more than usual lately, but other than that, you can always catch me bashing or milling about in a temple or two since no one chases me out.

    "Mummy, I'm hungry, but there's no one to eat! :C"

     

  • SilasSilas
    edited January 2013
    @Cinya, I do understand your point, but I just think that the Aurora statue deal was handled a little clumsily by Hashan. That's not to say you should just give up and stop trying, but it's something you might want to consider for future dealings.

    And as frustrating as it might be to see Hashan laughed off as irrelevant on the forums, perceptions will only change through continued work IC to make it relevant again. As you continue to build up the city, so will you (re)build its reputation. Appealing to the forums to lay off is probably going to be fruitless endeavour.

    ETA: Case in point from Ruth's post above: Kinilan will continue to be known for blocking up and trying to grief afk fishers until he decides to start logging in to try to change that perception. (Maybe in Ashtan he blocks down from the parapets? Who knows.)

    Also, for the record, while I think the execution was poor I do appreciate the attempt with the statue. It's been a lot of fun for Aurora's Order and the Votaries to investigate it, so kudos and thanks to whoever (and Whoever) was behind it.

  • CorbeauxCorbeaux

    Each city has a common beaten-to-death joke about what it represents to the relatively small forum population. Similar to Ashtan, Hashan has a growing RP niche that makes it worthwhile to interact with. I know @Mathonwy and I enjoy our interactions with the Ouranians (most of them) along with the interesting dynamics of the petty rivalries and alliances that go along with it.

    (Party): Mizik says, "This can't possibly go wrong."
  • CinyaCinya
    I understand, @Silas, and I don't intend to give up. It's just frustrating sometimes, as I feel like Hashan gets a worse reputation than it even deserves despite the recent improvement. I just wanted it to be said that we're trying, and that we don't actually suck. 

    kthx.
    Mathonwy said:
    dactylic hexameter is     way more interesting than the inside of anyone's vagina.
  • LyrLyr
    image

    My personal interactions with Hashan have been a lot more meaningless than other people's, but I do think Hashan has a lot of potential that they're only now trying to utilize. I will echo other people in saying that you can't expect reputation to be dissolved overnight; you must SHOW the rest of Achaea your awesomeness, you can't expect us to just 'know' or read forum RP and apply it in-game.
  • TvistorTvistor
    What on earth is that .gif Lyr?
  • LyrLyr
    @Tvistor It's from Adventure Time (come on grab your friends!). The Ice King is crying and his penguins are licking up his tears (except Gunther because she's on a low-sodium diet).
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    edited January 2013
    Okay time to throw my 2 cents about Hashan from my extremely long experience with it.

    I was a member of Hashan for most of my Achaea gaming experience, around 3 RL years or so (you know you play too much achaea when you have to specify real or game years :P) and I knew every nook and cranny of it. I witnessed great leaders to just depressing ones, good decisions to the horibad and rises and falls in its community.

    Firstly, yes, Hashan -was- the city of the Night, ruled by the Triad and their actions influenced by them. Heck they even had their own Divine pick system via their old planetarium. After much drama in those old times, with Twilight being removed and then Ourania cast out (I personally saw this one and remember the foolish reasons of it) the city entered an era of stagnancy (not that it wasnt a bit already), identity issues, and unity crises. The city was constantly feuding with itself about what citizens can and cannot do, who and whom not to follow, etc. The saddest part of all this was that many of the Achaean organizations saw Hashan as ripe for the picking, believing it an easy target to seize control over, and thus began Hashan's long long history of political fights, schemes, and plotting.

    From Mhaldorians that wanted to usher an age of Evil in Hashan, to members of Light attempting to secretly "convert" Hashan, to the Houses competing against one another for more city control, to members of the Order of Death attempting to shape the city to their Lord's vision and control, the list goes on. Hashan was a confused child that had several older kids attempting to force it to join their gang or be beaten up. Through time Hashan no longer become a city with a direct role, it became simply an organization where people can hang out, have citizenship, and be protected by guards as they enjoy their Achaea experience doing anything else they pleased (harvesting, tending shops, etc.). Hashan was no longer a mighty state standing for its own principles and demands, but simply a local town filled with outposts from other nations attempting to lay claim at the rich nodes within.

    I worked very hard in an attempt to protect and guide Hashan back when I was active, and before I went dormant I made sure Twilight was going to be reinducted into the city and personally conversed with Ourania about inquiries of Her return as well. With all three Triad back within the city and the general historic lifeblood flowing again, I felt safe that the city can finally thrive again on its own and believed I can finally take my leave  from the game. After a RL year or so when I returned, I find that the old political feuds are still there just more competition added. Now two more players were introduced to the competition with the Moon Order and Darkness Order vying for control via the citizenry, it was then that I knew there was no hope for Hashan.

    Some could say it is the citizenry who have to take up the reigns again and push the city forward, but it has been too long. What they dont understand is that the citizenry of Hashan today is not the citizenry of Hashan 200 years ago. The Hashani citizens of today are those that joined knowing the laxity and carefree nature of Hashan, and so joined for a more relaxed life. They are not seeking more warfare and more work, if anything most within would stand against it, they are simply seeking to live their lives. For that reason, the only way you can think of taking Hashan in a new direction is to disband the entire city and start over.



    tl;dr: Hashan cannot be changed or remade simply by a new governing or direction, the ways of laxity and an easy life-style are now embedded into its very nature. The -only- way Hashan would ever change now is with a complete overhaul by some major event.
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    @Eilona I wonder if you even read it first.
  • EilonaEilona United Kingdom
    Yes, I did. Why would you call out one person for disagreeing? Seems like you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. I disagree with the idea that you would need to disband the whole city. I think a Divine event of some kind would help unity. That's just my opinion, though.
  • NellaundraNellaundra
    Asmodron said:
    It's not what it used to be, so it sucks now.

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  • SynbiosSynbios
    Don't forget that this 'massive overhaul' you speak of will need to be properly done, otherwise people will just see it as 'pulling a Shallam' and dismiss it as copycat behavior. 

  • SiggeSigge
    image

    It worked for Shallam, why not Hashan? In a way I can understand, but still... I think Hashan has a lot of potential if they can just get all they're ducks in a row, y'know?
  • SynbiosSynbios
    Yeah, what I meant to say is that it doesn't have to always involve blowing up the city itself. The solution itself was already posted by @Lyr - keep up the momentum with good interaction from Hashan until the prejudices plaguing it are dispelled. 

  • AntidasAntidas
    edited January 2013
    @Asmodron I agreed with you up until the part where you began talking about Twilight and Ourania "vying for control of the city" or w/e it was you said. Gonna agree with Silas there, I think its moving in a very positive direction under Vayne/Ourania. And I can say this safely after pointing out that I was an active citizen in Hashan for well over 100 IG years between two characters, both of which eventually got sick of it and left for Mhaldor.

  • ElowinElowin
    Asmodron said:

    Okay time to throw my 2 cents about Hashan from my extremely long experience with it.

    I was a member of Hashan for most of my Achaea gaming experience, around 3 RL years or so (you know you play too much achaea when you have to specify real or game years :P) and I knew every nook and cranny of it. I witnessed great leaders to just depressing ones, good decisions to the horibad and rises and falls in its community.

    Firstly, yes, Hashan -was- the city of the Night, ruled by the Triad and their actions influenced by them. Heck they even had their own Divine pick system via their old planetarium. After much drama in those old times, with Twilight being removed and then Ourania cast out (I personally saw this one and remember the foolish reasons of it) the city entered an era of stagnancy (not that it wasnt a bit already), identity issues, and unity crises. The city was constantly feuding with itself about what citizens can and cannot do, who and whom not to follow, etc. The saddest part of all this was that many of the Achaean organizations saw Hashan as ripe for the picking, believing it an easy target to seize control over, and thus began Hashan's long long history of political fights, schemes, and plotting.

    From Mhaldorians that wanted to usher an age of Evil in Hashan, to members of Light attempting to secretly "convert" Hashan, to the Houses competing against one another for more city control, to members of the Order of Death attempting to shape the city to their Lord's vision and control, the list goes on. Hashan was a confused child that had several older kids attempting to force it to join their gang or be beaten up. Through time Hashan no longer become a city with a direct role, it became simply an organization where people can hang out, have citizenship, and be protected by guards as they enjoy their Achaea experience doing anything else they pleased (harvesting, tending shops, etc.). Hashan was no longer a mighty state standing for its own principles and demands, but simply a local town filled with outposts from other nations attempting to lay claim at the rich nodes within.

    I worked very hard in an attempt to protect and guide Hashan back when I was active, and before I went dormant I made sure Twilight was going to be reinducted into the city and personally conversed with Ourania about inquiries of Her return as well. With all three Triad back within the city and the general historic lifeblood flowing again, I felt safe that the city can finally thrive again on its own and believed I can finally take my leave  from the game. After a RL year or so when I returned, I find that the old political feuds are still there just more competition added. Now two more players were introduced to the competition with the Moon Order and Darkness Order vying for control via the citizenry, it was then that I knew there was no hope for Hashan.

    Some could say it is the citizenry who have to take up the reigns again and push the city forward, but it has been too long. What they dont understand is that the citizenry of Hashan today is not the citizenry of Hashan 200 years ago. The Hashani citizens of today are those that joined knowing the laxity and carefree nature of Hashan, and so joined for a more relaxed life. They are not seeking more warfare and more work, if anything most within would stand against it, they are simply seeking to live their lives. For that reason, the only way you can think of taking Hashan in a new direction is to disband the entire city and start over.



    tl;dr: Hashan cannot be changed or remade simply by a new governing or direction, the ways of laxity and an easy life-style are now embedded into its very nature. The -only- way Hashan would ever change now is with a complete overhaul by some major event.

    Honestly, your description of Hashan has me sitting here saying, 'That sounds awesome!'

    If only what you speak of, this image of disputed frontiership, this Achaean wild west, if only this was an in-character lawlessness embraced by the community and played with as a theme.

    Perhaps even supported mechanically. There was a system for capturing territory in Achaea at one time, right? With a bit of tweaking, perhaps a system for gaining territory via political rangling and treaties or embassies, trade, ect rather than PK alone could be introduced. 'Mhaldor has bought 4 rooms for x gold (or credits or w/e) in Hashani territory 'City of Hashan'.'
  • SynbiosSynbios
    Elowin said:
    Honestly, your description of Hashan has me sitting here saying, 'That sounds awesome!' If only what you speak of, this image of disputed frontiership, this Achaean wild west, if only this was an in-character lawlessness embraced by the community and played with as a theme. Perhaps even supported mechanically. There was a system for capturing territory in Achaea at one time, right? With a bit of tweaking, perhaps a system for gaining territory via political rangling and treaties or embassies, trade, ect rather than PK alone could be introduced. 'Mhaldor has bought 4 rooms for x gold (or credits or w/e) in Hashani territory 'City of Hashan'.'
    Unsure if 'lawlessness' would fit with Hashan, given that it was historically the first city to come up with official 'city laws'.

This discussion has been closed.