Third Black Wave: Electric Boogaloo

Asmodron

As for the event, I personally adored it from Hashan's perspective, especially during those 30+ man sieges. Not sure if others will agree, but I think the Hashani playerbase did a very good job at playing the villains for once, and I have to salute them for putting so much hard work and effort during this event. @Krizal is a legend that doesnt get enough credit for all the time she puts in for the city and game. Strategizing plans, plots and more during all this has sparked so much life into this game for me and I hope others.

Onward in Progress!

Keorin

I think people need to understand, there were a lot of Cyrenians trying to do things during the event. It's not as if Skye didn't work hard to do what she did, but it's also true that she was lucky enough to pick the path the admin decided to go with. Most everyone else never got a single response.

From the Cyrenian perspective, there's been a lot of losing, not a lot of agency, and not much coming out of the work we do. Five days into the event we lost the city, and then we hunted tide for two weeks, and then the admin told us it was time to take back the city and we did. And now we have the city back, but it's not like Cyrene's government is great about getting more then a few people involved in things either.

That's all to say, there's been a lot of cool things about this event, and a lot of people have put in a ton of effort, both OOC and IC. But it feels a little disingenuous to just tell people they didn't work hard enough and so shouldn't be frustrated at all with how things have felt. This is especially true around roleplay that isn't "happy"; it can be a lot more fun when it feels like negative events for your character are at least somewhat  the results of your own actions, not just a trip you're getting taken on.

Tahquil

Skye was super noisy though. Take the shop example everyone is accusing Skye of favouritism, or that her shop in particular was really well known.

You kinda forgot about her shouting at about her shop being taken and how they still had to pay for stuff, damn Tsol'teth which initiated theback and forth regarding the Undinky Barrel.

Kiet

Keorin said:

I think people need to understand, there were a lot of Cyrenians trying to do things during the event. It's not as if Skye didn't work hard to do what she did, but it's also true that she was lucky enough to pick the path the admin decided to go with. Most everyone else never got a single response.

From the Cyrenian perspective, there's been a lot of losing, not a lot of agency, and not much coming out of the work we do. Five days into the event we lost the city, and then we hunted tide for two weeks, and then the admin told us it was time to take back the city and we did. And now we have the city back, but it's not like Cyrene's government is great about getting more then a few people involved in things either.

That's all to say, there's been a lot of cool things about this event, and a lot of people have put in a ton of effort, both OOC and IC. But it feels a little disingenuous to just tell people they didn't work hard enough and so shouldn't be frustrated at all with how things have felt. This is especially true around roleplay that isn't "happy"; it can be a lot more fun when it feels like negative events for your character are at least somewhat  the results of your own actions, not just a trip you're getting taken on.

Is it really luck if Skye and other characters with her amount of knowledge + roleplay get to do things like this more often than people who have no real experience influencing world-wide things, because they've chosen to roleplay an isolationist in an isolationist city?

All I heard about Cyrenians within like 15 minutes of their city being taken over (which they had agency for, btw, there were very specific victory conditions even if they were difficult to achieve as the first city) was about how the admin hate them and nothing works for them and how they're giving up. Do you know how often Skye's run into dead ends in events? Like a billion times, but I've never seen her post on forums about how it's a railroaded event she has no influence over.

At some point you have to wonder what you could have done differently instead of why others are 'luckier' than you. As another example: are top pkers just luckier than us at always picking the op class and getting lots of credits and that's why they're good at pvp? Or are they, perhaps, simply just much more dedicated and talented at it than others?

Accipiter

If this is the end of the event then I really dislike that they changed the Tsol'teth from being the ultimate big bad on Achaea to being just another grey and nuanced enemy in the pile of grey and nuanced enemies. I kind of feel like it isn't the end though because mechanically 3 cities lost a raid defense mechanic end they either need to get it back to have balance or the others need to go as well.

Cyr

Accipiter said:

If this is the end of the event then I really dislike that they changed the Tsol'teth from being the ultimate big bad on Achaea to being just another grey and nuanced enemy in the pile of grey and nuanced enemies. I kind of feel like it isn't the end though because mechanically 3 cities lost a raid defense mechanic end they either need to get it back to have balance or the others need to go as well.

not just raid defense. You can't charge tanks without a font iirc.

Keorin

So first of all, we really need to drop this idea that no Cyrenians go out to interact with the world, because that's just not true. Are there people who don't? Sure, but I'd venture that most Cyrenians enjoy interacting with the game world as much as anyone, even if there are mixed feelings about the role the city should play in it (and in general Cyrenian isolationism just means "don't raid." It's frankly closer to an OOC ideology then an IC one).

Second, I think it's silly to suggest that events like this should solely engage players with a lot of experience and practice. The whole occupation forced a lot of Cyrene out of its comfort zone, and put Cyrene in a role in an event that it's never been in before. If that means that people who haven't tried engaging with denizens and such before are doing their best to give it a try, I don't think the answer should be "you aren't good enough to engage with this, even though you were forced into being engaged. Spend a few more years practicing."

And yes, there's going to be an element of luck to what the admin are interested in going through with. Big physical changes to cities, and the lore surrounding them, aren't agreed to in a heartbeat. It has to be something the admin want to play out and haven't already decided. There were a lot of people trying to pursue thing, and while I'm certain efforts could have been better (gods know mine could have been), that doesn't mean that everything was possible.

Kiet

But Cyrene did influence things in the end, even if it wasn't how you wanted to? No one's saying Cyrenians never interact with the outside world, but who would you bet on for having a better grasp of worldly stuff: a non-krypton cyrenian or someone who's been in several orgs and knows basically every npc in the game.

No event bars newbies from engaging. The newbie just has to do understand Achaean logic and know about the world a little, and often not even that!

Lenn

It's a good thing Skye and Hycanthus came along to save Cyrene from the Tsol'teth.

Kiet

Agreed! Be more grateful, peasants of the valley.

Keorin

Cyrene influenced nothing, practically speaking. We got to help Hycanthus put together a bomb, and we got to run a one-sided referendum on whether to fight or not. But except that one vote, the only options we were given as a city was to follow the admin's instructions.

And it's exactly my point, really. You shouldn't have to have a massive knowledge of world lore and practice engaging denizens to have a chance at getting things going, especially when you've gotten pushed into engaging with an event. You can't just kick people out of a city, and then blame them for not having the experience they need to actually effect that plot they've been made to be a part of.

Kiet

But you didn't get kicked out of the city. You had an opportunity to win that fight, and you didn't. That was you influencing the event, though not how you'd have liked.

Torrent

Skye food wars edition!!!!

Keorin

Having had a chance for things to go differently and having been forced out of the city aren't mutually exclusive. It's pretty laughable to say that since a five faction force lost a battle, something that a lot of players can't do much in for obvious reasons, that they deserve to sit around for two weeks.

But this has gotten pretty off topic, and you're not really engaging with my points in good faith, so I think this argument has run its course. All I'm saying is that I don't think it's unreasonable for some Cyrenian players to feel that they had little agency in this event, even as they were pushed into engaging with it how they might not have liked. Skye and co. are more than deserving of the role they got to play, but that doesn't mean people don't get to be a little frustrating when their own hard work didn't come to anything at all.

Kresslack

Keorin said:

You shouldn't have to have a massive knowledge of world lore and practice engaging denizens to have a chance at getting things going, especially when you've gotten pushed into engaging with an event.

I feel as if this was the initial point that is conveniently being disregarded. I don't really have an issue with how things turned out, and it's been a great, if somewhat bittersweet and sombre experience IC.

I do very much agree with the above sentiment though. While people more directly involved and closer to the event related conditions are going to be the most obvious candidates (e.g. PoM and Mariners Guild with any of the past sea related events), being a worldly scholar shouldn't necessarily be the threshold.

Sure, it's great to have that knowledge and experience a seasoned character can bring, but it's also great for other people to have the Experience in general of being part of something significant. It adds a lot to character development for individuals who maybe have had nothing interesting happen in their lives yet.

Just my thoughts on that point in particular.

Minifie

Some things to keep in mind is that you also can “interact” with denizens in weird ways to progress things... such as magicide!

Iloisee

"The shadows suddenly come alive, black hands reaching forth to grasp you. Your struggles end before they begin as in a single, vicious motion, the shadows rip you limb from limb in a display of methodical savagery."

wail

Asmodron

Suggestion for mob interactions in general are:

- Dont just send "hello" and wait for a response before proceeding. If you want to grab attention, send a tell specifying what it is you want and what it is concerning and what the mob could gain. If it is related to the event, someone might decide to possess.

- Dont just jump to a random mob hoping for a solution. Analyze, look at who would likely be an asset and try your luck.

- Have a plan ready to discuss. If you interacted with a mob and got their attention, only to let them down by not having anything setup, then you just lost a very good opportunity.

- Consider working with others, especially your city/org leadership. The more people involved, the more interested the admin may be.

- Work on it with time. Dont expect results right then and there.

- Dont get deterred if the mob doesnt reply. Try try and try again with time. Some good advice is: "Dont give up until the mob tells you to f off".

Caelan

Asmodron said:

Mathonwy said:

anime suuuuuuuuuuucks

This requires immediate flagging and permanent banning...

Correct.  We need to rid the forums of all this anime trash.

Mathonwy

      

Shirszae

If you watch trashy anime you have only yourself to blame, much like if you watch bad movies 
(Yeah, couldnt resist  don't insult mah anime .)

Caelan

Shirszae said:

If you watch trashy anime you have only yourself to blame, much like if you watch bad movies 
(Yeah, couldnt resist  don't insult mah anime .)

I don't watch any anime. Why? Because it is ALL trashy.  DO YOU LIKE APPLES?!

Torinn

Ghost in the Shell is not trashy 

Jinos

No mention of Akira? Shame. For shame.

Erza

Mathonwy said:

      

How dare you sir, how dare you. I love his movies 

Rangor

Accipiter said:

If this is the end of the event then I really dislike that they changed the Tsol'teth from being the ultimate big bad on Achaea to being just another grey and nuanced enemy in the pile of grey and nuanced enemies. I kind of feel like it isn't the end though because mechanically 3 cities lost a raid defense mechanic end they either need to get it back to have balance or the others need to go as well.

I will also be super disappointed if the Tsol'teth cease being the big bad boogeyman hiding in the underrealm.

Zbaco

Rangor said:

Accipiter said:

If this is the end of the event then I really dislike that they changed the Tsol'teth from being the ultimate big bad on Achaea to being just another grey and nuanced enemy in the pile of grey and nuanced enemies. I kind of feel like it isn't the end though because mechanically 3 cities lost a raid defense mechanic end they either need to get it back to have balance or the others need to go as well.

I will also be super disappointed if the Tsol'teth cease being the big bad boogeyman hiding in the underrealm.

Over/under on when they become the next playable race?

Mathonwy

Zbaco said:

Rangor said:

Accipiter said:

If this is the end of the event then I really dislike that they changed the Tsol'teth from being the ultimate big bad on Achaea to being just another grey and nuanced enemy in the pile of grey and nuanced enemies. I kind of feel like it isn't the end though because mechanically 3 cities lost a raid defense mechanic end they either need to get it back to have balance or the others need to go as well.

I will also be super disappointed if the Tsol'teth cease being the big bad boogeyman hiding in the underrealm.

Over/under on when they become the next playable race?

 I kind of wish there was more of a foundation for fantasy race RP, but, of course, the gem kind of renders that moot.

The tsol'teth would be a terrible playable race, however. Talk about going from villain this season to village idiot the next.

Erza said:

How dare you sir, how dare you. I love his movies 

Tahquil

You can't blame him. Dude's probably never even seen Cowboy Bebop.

Vinzent

Cowboy Bebop isn't the one I'd show most people first.