Third Black Wave: Electric Boogaloo

Stheno

Mathonwy said:

 I kind of wish there was more of a foundation for fantasy race RP, but, of course, the gem kind of renders that moot.

 Pfft, letting a little thing like reincarnation stop you from being a virulent fantasy racist.

Jiraishin

Rangor said:

Accipiter said:

If this is the end of the event then I really dislike that they changed the Tsol'teth from being the ultimate big bad on Achaea to being just another grey and nuanced enemy in the pile of grey and nuanced enemies. I kind of feel like it isn't the end though because mechanically 3 cities lost a raid defense mechanic end they either need to get it back to have balance or the others need to go as well.

I will also be super disappointed if the Tsol'teth cease being the big bad boogeyman hiding in the underrealm.

But grey and nuanced enemies have all that interesting nuance

Davok

I'm in a small camp for sometimes just liking traditional tropes I guess, but sometimes I want villains to just be villains and not be misunderstood anti-villains.

Accipiter

It is really easy to make up a new faction and have it come from some outer plane, it is much harder to have a faction with 20 years of being a huge threat to all civilization. It doesn't feel like the pay off was worth the character assassination that happened.

Adrik

Vinzent said:

Cowboy Bebop isn't the one I'd show most people first.

And that's why you're wrong.

Lenn

It'd frankly be odd if the tsol'teth didn't change at all in over a thousand years.

It's also possible they've studied Sapience enough to know that Achaeans have a fondness for dangerous but cute things, and they're mostly working on figuring out what counts as "cute" to try and make more efficient use of us.

Vinzent

Adrik said:

Vinzent said:

Cowboy Bebop isn't the one I'd show most people first.

And that's why you're wrong.

I said most, because it depends on the person. Cowboy Bebop is lighthearted at times but has a more serious tone, and not everyone will enjoy that; Trigun would be an alternative.

Archaeon

anime is stupid

Tahquil

out of curiousity and not a dig at anything.. but is there an anime with a more iconic and well-rounded soundtrack than Cowboy Bebop because I would like to watch it.

Pyori

Attack on Titan's soundtrack is superb.

As is the rest of it.

Mathonwy

Lest anyone forgets:

Ryssa

Since anime keeps being brought up...
Sword Art Online anyone?

Kresslack

Lenn said:

It'd frankly be odd if the tsol'teth didn't change at all in over a thousand years.

It's also possible they've studied Sapience enough to know that Achaeans have a fondness for dangerous but cute things, and they're mostly working on figuring out what counts as "cute" to try and make more efficient use of us.

I mean, they came back this third time and started doing the exact same things as last time, didn't they? That is, until they got their nose bloodied a bit and decided to switch tactics.

Tahquil

Mathonwy said:

Lest anyone forgets:

And people ask what happened and why we don't talk anymore.

Lenn

They obviously read public news and assumed it was all normal behaviour.

Shirszae

Kresslack said:

Lenn said:

It'd frankly be odd if the tsol'teth didn't change at all in over a thousand years.

It's also possible they've studied Sapience enough to know that Achaeans have a fondness for dangerous but cute things, and they're mostly working on figuring out what counts as "cute" to try and make more efficient use of us.

I mean, they came back this third time and started doing the exact same things as last time, didn't they? That is, until they got their nose bloodied a bit and decided to switch tactics.

I mean, the City-states of Sapience have been doing iterations of the same basic thing as far as raiding goes for just as long and many of them have changed remarkably, including in the case of Shallam moving to an altogether new biome. The Tsol'teth could be the same way, remarkable change elsewhere but a tried and true way of faring war.

Kresslack

Tahquil said:

Mathonwy said:

Lest anyone forgets:

And people ask what happened and why we don't talk anymore.

Mathonwy

I mean... a man's gotta stand his ground.

Kiet

I don't know if the Tsol'teth developing from 1 dimensional villain horde is necessarily a  bad thing, nor does it mean they'll become actually good and lovable in the end.

Of course, I understand that fantasy writing is generally 90% 'oh no the evil bad race with no humanity at all must be wiped out and totally not because the author has questionably shallow real life philosophy!' and that people who enjoy fantasy writing probably seek out more of that.

But you can have a villain that grows increasingly three dimensional without them becoming cuddly, too. They can still be horrible and hated by everyone when they become more like people. If we're telling a 'realistic' (character-wise) story, they were always like people. There was nothing about them that made them entirely distinct from the other Tsol  to the point that they couldn't be people. There's just never been a reason to reveal anything more from them.

To me, it's personally more interesting if every character in a story, hero or villain, mortal or divine, is an actual character. But just because they're actual characters, it doesn't mean your own character needs to lose motivation to oppose them completely, and that's something that's up to both the players and the storytellers here, so I'd hope the fear of them turning into teddy bears is also unfounded.

Vinzent

Tahquil said:

out of curiousity and not a dig at anything.. but is there an anime with a more iconic and well-rounded soundtrack than Cowboy Bebop because I would like to watch it.

Katanagatari, Megalo Box, and Redline are high on my list.

Kresslack

Mathonwy said:

I mean... a man's gotta stand his ground.

Ah, good ole Green Street Hooligans.

Tahquil

      

Atalkez

Cowboy bebop is all time, as is outlaw star and trigun. Also a big fan of hunter x hunter, the Fate series, Code Geuse (sp?), and Berserk.

Telendrieth

Atalkez said:

Cowboy bebop is all time, as is outlaw star and trigun. Also a big fan of hunter x hunter, the Fate series, Code Geuse (sp?), and Berserk.

Just starting Hunter x Hunter. Hated the first few episodes, but it quickly pulled me in.

Iakimen

Samurai Champloo, Evangelion, Mobile Suit Gundam, Macross Frontier, Hellsing, Gurren Lagann, FLCL, Monster, Ghost in the Shell, Revolutionary Girl Utena, Higurashi...there are many good soundtracks, but these are some of the ones I'd consider iconic too. I'm not sure if any of them has Bebop beat in that regard, though. Besides possibly Evangelion. Also excluded movies.

Melodie

Get your filthy anime out of here and get back to ranting about the event!

Farrah

Kiet said:

I don't know if the Tsol'teth developing from 1 dimensional villain horde is necessarily a  bad thing, nor does it mean they'll become actually good and lovable in the end.

Of course, I understand that fantasy writing is generally 90% 'oh no the evil bad race with no humanity at all must be wiped out and totally not because the author has questionably shallow real life philosophy!' and that people who enjoy fantasy writing probably seek out more of that.

But you can have a villain that grows increasingly three dimensional without them becoming cuddly, too. They can still be horrible and hated by everyone when they become more like people. If we're telling a 'realistic' (character-wise) story, they were always like people. There was nothing about them that made them entirely distinct from the other Tsol  to the point that they couldn't be people. There's just never been a reason to reveal anything more from them.

To me, it's personally more interesting if every character in a story, hero or villain, mortal or divine, is an actual character. But just because they're actual characters, it doesn't mean your own character needs to lose motivation to oppose them completely, and that's something that's up to both the players and the storytellers here, so I'd hope the fear of them turning into teddy bears is also unfounded.

I don't really understand how anyone could think of them as teddy bears after what they did to Cyrene...

They've been kept pretty morally questionable. Even things like letting Hailqas'an die because saving her wasn't worth it and telling Adrik he wouldn't be tall enough to be allowed to live in Underrealm.

Targ is allied to them and I would say the majority of the city probably still isn't comfortable with them. The discomfort is expressed pretty frequently.

Makarios

If you read the meaning of what the Tsol'teth say rather than the way they say it most of it is pretty horrific stuff. These are not nice people, but they do have reasons for what they do.

They are very much an immoral, unethical, and all round ppathalogical race even by the standards of Achaea. They're also one of the most overtly powerful mortal groups, which is a pretty unfortunate combination for their opposition.

The primary thing that sets the Tsol'teth aside as an enemy however (at least in my opinion) is that they also have access to the chief advantage that adventurers do: they do not stay dead when killed through traditional means. This makes them a very hard problem to solve for Achaea at large, just as it makes Achaea at large a very tough problem for the Tsol'teth to solve. I'd be very surprised if solving this problem didn't consume at least a few people's character arcs going forward, since breaking that deadlock is pretty manditory for a true defeat of the quite literal monster under the bed.

Asmodron

Makarios said:

The primary thing that sets the Tsol'teth aside as an enemy however (at least in my opinion) is that they also have access to the chief advantage that adventurers do: they do not stay dead when killed through traditional means.

will be interesting to see what they come up with

Accipiter

Makarios said:

If you read the meaning of what the Tsol'teth say rather than the way they say it most of it is pretty horrific stuff. These are not nice people, but they do have reasons for what they do.

They are very much an immoral, unethical, and all round ppathalogical race even by the standards of Achaea. They're also one of the most overtly powerful mortal groups, which is a pretty unfortunate combination for their opposition.

Perhaps you guys need to remember that you are really good at RP and most of your playerbase is less so. The cute naivete that the Tsol'teth employ is really endearing, especially Hailqas'an, and the players of Achaea have a much lower sympathy for the unseen population of the world than the Admin has historically tried to instill in us. Even non-named npcs are typically seen as pretty much useless xp bags.

It feels a lot like a leopard playing with kittens much of the time, especially because of course people will go along with a course presented by an Admin controlled toon if they think it will be interesting.