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Ship trading

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  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,908 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Mindshell said:
    This is already the case at unmanned harbours though, if you leave your ship too long it'll sink. Everyone is forced to leave/return after 2 years as is.
    I mean force the ship itself to return to mainland. Currently you can ship return with bait and gold, repair, and keep your ship clogging a harbour in perpetuity and there are people who do it.

    @Ismay that's such a ridiculous argument, Achaea is littered with opportunity costs where, if you want a certain luxury you have to do certain things to maintain it. Having to sail on occasion to reach islands to prevent people from clogging harbours with a ship they never intend to sail again is a perfectly reasonable thing. Y'all were given a good thing with small harbours and ship return and a handful of you are abusing the hell out of it so you never have to sail. Of course, it makes no sense to implement such a change without changing the cost/consequences of sinking. Changing the consequences of sinking to be less brutal should be priority number one to improving seafaring for everyone.
    image
    TaleilaSiduriTorinn
  • TaleilaTaleila Member Posts: 35 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Tahquil said:
    I'd rather if the points were back on discussing trading rather than if piracy and the retribution it brings about.

    Let's be honest, the only give-back piracy had to the community got a huge kick in the balls once forceboarding was removed and charismatic, face-to-face interactions that did led to any sort of roleplay other than "STEAMROLL THAT FUCKER" got nixed.
    Gonna backtrack a bit here, because I'm just getting caught up.

    Reminisce with me, if you will, back to that very first interaction I -ever- had with Jinsun. Taleila hadn't long finished paying off her ship and renamed it. One of Taleila's children had marketed that they were seeking passage to Clockwork Isle. Taleila's ship was docked in Riparium, as it usually was at that time, because Clockwork Isle was a place I frequented back then. Contacted the child, told her to meet me on the ship. Because she marketed for passage, I was already preparing for a dealing with Pirates. We set sail, and were about 5 rooms outside of the harbour at Clockwork, when, lo and behold, out pops Jinsun on Yard and Fundament. (Internal dialogue: "Called it.") He gets one shot fired off--likely grappling me. I don't even give him the chance to hail me before I yelled to him, offering to pay him if he'd stop firing. I had COMPLETE control in that situation, as the person under attack. He didn't fire another shot. We paid him, and because of the amount we offered him, he even went so far as to give my ship 6 months of safe passage. Then he went on about his day (with me asking him questions about things in tells, because well, that's how Taleila do).

    I've been on both sides of interactions with pirates. When you deal with pirates, YOU are the one in control of the interaction. Because if you show us respect, we'll give it right back. It's REALLY simple not to get sunk. (And sinking sucks, let me tell you. I dropped over 40k just to get a ship back after going down from dealings with a leviathan--and they're a lot less forgiving than Pirates, let me tell you.) If I show up and fire on your ship, and you yell "Hey, stop, I have gold. Lets strike a deal." (or some such something similar) We hold fire while working out negotiations (Unless you do something so monumentally stupid as to try and escape, instead of actually negotiating. At that point, you lose all respect and I will not try to negotiate with you again and will just sink that ship any time I encounter it, forevermore). But if you want to yell obscenities and vitriol, we won't give you half a chance, and we won't even feel bad for it. If we fire on you, hail you, and you choose not to respond? You'll sink, and we won't feel bad, because we gave you the chance to respond.  When I first joined the PoM (and honestly, when I sailed with Jinsun before I was even officially a member) I sailed with Jinsun fairly often. We're talking about over like.. 15+ IG years here (personal records show my earliest logs on ship combat at 7 June 2018). In all that time, I have NEVER seen him literally just "steamroll" someone, unless they decided to be stupid and yell obscenities and vitriol. 

    And if you don't want us to fire on you at all? There's always the purchasing of safe passage, which you can contact -any pirate- about, at any time, even if we're not in game. Shoot us a message, or a letter. We're pretty good about contacting people back. Pirates aren't nearly the assholes everyone makes us out to be. We enjoy good RP, and fun interactions just as much as the next guy. And Sinking sucks. We KNOW sinking sucks, and we give you RP opportunity to avoid getting sunk. Our ships sink just like anyone else, and when we get sunk, we have to pay too. We know it sucks. Yes, we enjoy ship combat. It's fun for us. It would be more fun if it didn't cost so damn much to salvage ships.

    tl;dr: If you give us nothing to work with, we do what we do. If you be dicks, we do what we do. If you give us some healthy interaction/RP (even if it's anger, without the vitriol--meaning YOU FIGHT BACK) you have better luck dealing with us. If you just want to avoid getting sunk, just pay us. Our prices are very reasonable, when compared to sinking.


    and if ship trades didn't suck so hard, I'd do them more often, but they interest me less and less. There have been a lot of great suggestions by several different people, ( @Laedha and @Jinsun and a couple others I can't recall straight off without looking back) that could make ship trades a lot more interesting to me personally (as in, for my own pockets, and not because Pirate).
    Cailin
  • VinzentVinzent Member Posts: 80 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    I think most people get caught on giving the middle finger to morality and paying pirates, is all, and most reject that proposal on the basis of it being wrong. It is, however, trivially easy to run away and not pay all the same. 
    Jinsun
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,908 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There is an effective and welcome RP middlefinger like @Laedha who will call me scum and tell me it's her life's work to ruin me and then there's FUCK YOU I WAS AFK YOU TALENTLESS BITCH type thing I get from most of you. Looking at you Cyrene sex alts.
    image
    TaleilaTorinnCailin
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,091 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    We all have our frustrations, but its probably best for us all if we keep this strictly to suggestions on how to improve instead of unhappy anecdotes and name-calling. The admins don't need any other excuse to pass the thread over. Its already related to Seafaring xD

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • TaleilaTaleila Member Posts: 35 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Jinsun said:
    There is an effective and welcome RP middlefinger like @Laedha who will call me scum and tell me it's her life's work to ruin me and then there's FUCK YOU I WAS AFK YOU TALENTLESS BITCH type thing I get from most of you. Looking at you Cyrene sex alts.
    Honestly, I just wanna say how much I have enjoyed the interactions I've had with @Laedha. Not going into detail about any of them, but it's refreshing to find interactions that aren't all "YAY PIRATES" (which I get a lot, because people come to me and bring others to me, who are interested in being pirates) but also aren't distinctively "dealing with Artanis".
  • JinsunJinsun TN, USAMember Posts: 2,908 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    But I have an RP reason to be an asshole ! (Obviously I'm kidding )
    image
    Taleila
  • AereidhnaAereidhna DallasMember Posts: 682 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    The times I attempted to negotiate with pirates (3-4 RL years ago), I was ignored and sunk anyhow because they weren't bothering to pay attention to tells. So I stopped negotiating, RP a non-com who hates pirates and would rather scuttle the ship than negotiate, and got better at running and stopped caring about salvage costs. Maybe one day I'll actually let @Laedha teach me to fire back.

    Anyway, I personally would like to see the seas more active, and I find it incredibly frustrating that it sounds like there's no admin support in the direction of updating ship trades to be worthwhile. I also would be interested in changes to island harbours, because while I do benefit xp-wise from camping Ilyrean and Suliel sometimes, the whole dynamic of camping islands for more than like 2 IC years at a time is ridiculous (although some change to northern chops to make Ilyrean and Suliel worthwhile to sail to would be nice, if we're omitting camping). 
    Laedha
  • IsmayIsmay Member Posts: 647 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Honestly, there's just too much hassle to sailing. The time investment with chops, winds, etc. Not to mention the threat of pirates sinking you. Makes any effort put into sailing not worth it for some people.

    From what I've read about trades, there's no way I'm even attempting those. The payout isn't worth the effort/threat involved.
    Lenn
  • RackhamRackham Member Posts: 75 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Honestly, there's too much hassle to raiding. The time investment with scripting, curing counts, etc. Not to mention the threat of having a bounty on you. Makes any effort put into raiding not worth it to some people.

    And from what I've read about Annwyn, there's no way I'm even attempting that. The payout isn't worth the effort/threat involved.

    /S

    Different strokes for different folks :P
    CerysTaleila
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,154 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Reward Apr-18 May-18 Jun-18 Jul-18 Aug-18 Sep-18 Oct-18 Nov-18 Dec-18 Grand Total Percentage
    10 bound credits



    1
    2 2
    5 0.91%
    100000gp
    1 4 1 1 2 2 2 2 15 2.73%
    200000gp
    1
    1

    1 2
    5 0.91%
    25 bound credits 1
    3 1 2
    1
    1 9 1.64%
    5 bound credits 3 1

    4
    4 1 4 17 3.09%
    65000gp 3 2 4 3 4 4 1 4 6 31 5.64%
    75000gp 3 3
    4 3 3 3 3 2 24 4.36%
    a birdcage covered in a white cloth 1 3 1
    1 3
    5 3 17 3.09%
    barrel of rum 8 1 3 8 5 7 9 4 2 47 8.55%
    Black finned flare 5
    2 1 1 2 1 2 2 16 2.91%
    Crew experience 6 14 11 11 13 16 11 6 10 98 17.82%
    Crew morale 4 10 8 7 8 4 7 10 7 65 11.82%
    Golden Gryphon 5 4 2 4 4 3 4 1 1 28 5.09%
    great Notic amulet 2 2 3 2 1 1 4 3 1 19 3.45%
    Hollowed Skull 3 4 2 3 1
    1 2
    16 2.91%
    missed
    4






    4 0.73%
    Reticulated giraffe
    1
    1
    1 1
    3 7 1.27%
    Seaworn pair of stone dice 1 1 1
    2
    1 3 1 10 1.82%
    Striking sea captain's hat 4 3 3 4 2 6 3 5 10 40 7.27%
    Unmarked wooden crate 3
    2 2


    1 1 9 1.64%
    Weapon ammunition 4 7 10 9 9 4 5 4 4 56 10.18%
    Wicker basket containing a ginger kitten 4
    1

    4 1
    2 12 2.18%
    Grand Total 60 62 60 62 62 60 62 60 62 550 100.00%

    There are still same start / end harbour trade deals happening, despite the announce post to the contrary, just no gold / credit reward trades.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    GreysTysandr
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,154 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Row Labels Apr-18 May-18 Jun-18 Jul-18 Aug-18 Sep-18 Oct-18 Nov-18 Dec-18 Jan-19 Grand Total Percentage
    10 bound credits 1 2 2 1 6 0.98%
    100000gp 1 4 1 1 2 2 2 2 1 16 2.61%
    200000gp 1 1 1 2 1 6 0.98%
    25 bound credits 1 3 1 2 1 1 9 1.47%
    5 bound credits 3 1 4 4 1 4 2 19 3.10%
    65000gp 3 2 4 3 4 4 1 4 6 31 5.07%
    75000gp 3 3 4 3 3 3 3 2 4 28 4.58%
    barrel of rum 8 1 3 8 5 7 9 4 2 9 56 9.15%
    Birdcage covered in a white cloth 1 3 1 1 3 5 3 3 20 3.27%
    Black finned flare 5 2 1 1 2 1 2 2 5 21 3.43%
    Crew experience 6 14 11 11 13 16 11 6 10 11 109 17.81%
    Crew morale 4 10 8 7 8 4 7 10 7 6 71 11.60%
    Golden Gryphon 5 4 2 4 4 3 4 1 1 28 4.58%
    great Notic amulet 2 2 3 2 1 1 4 3 1 2 21 3.43%
    Hollowed Skull 3 4 2 3 1 1 2 16 2.61%
    missed 4 4 0.65%
    Reticulated giraffe 1 1 1 1 3 7 1.14%
    Seaworn pair of stone dice 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 10 1.63%
    Striking sea captain's hat 4 3 3 4 2 6 3 5 10 7 47 7.68%
    Unmarked wooden crate 3 2 2 1 1 2 11 1.80%
    Weapon ammunition 4 7 10 9 9 4 5 4 4 7 63 10.29%
    Wicker basket containing a ginger kitten 4 1 4 1 2 1 13 2.12%
    Grand Total 60 62 60 62 62 60 62 60 62 62 612 100.00%

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    RiellLaedhaTysandrEllryn
  • RiellRiell Member Posts: 209 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @Klendathu, I don't do anything with ships, but I'd like to commend you for your work!  This is super informative for everyone :)
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