Ship trading

Sobriquet

Cooper said:

I want to sail, I think it is fun.

I think ship combat is terrible, and I don't want to participate in it.

People who just attack anyone they see make sailing not fun and a chore for those who just want to sail and bash on islands.

Just because it is your RP doesn't mean it isn't asshole behavior, and doesn't mean it adds something positive to the game.

I 100% guarantee that more people would sail and use ships if pirating wasn't a thing. 

This.

Jinsun

Dupre said:

Laedha said:

people who play villains get extreme ooc hate because people don't like having their text gold stolen. 

To which he responds with what?

Hissy fits on ooc forums and throwing ooc issues around claiming harassment like there's no tomorrow. Yeah that's the shining paragon of level headedness and maturity we want trying to brainstorm a major overhaul?

Plenty of achaea's other villains have received far less ooc hate because they conduct themselves with -some- tact at least

Well as someone who as overseen a few overhauls and lead a few orgs and is currently working very easily and agreeably with others who meet me with respect, I dunno what to tell you. Sorry that you feel personally slighted that a few of us have decided to work together to end some very real issues with how factions manage things to make things better, not just for me, but for other players. I do hope that you enjoy whatever it is that you do, but for now the people that want to see a vibrant seafaring community will work together to weed out unnecessary ooc drama and stress for all parties. I truly don't understand why you have such a vested interest in turning this to mudslinging contest as I don't know you and can't recall you sailing, but I hope you find the peace of mind to enjoy a game without resorting to vitriol. Perhaps you need another outlet

Antonius

Aegoth said:

I think everyone is forgetting that the seas are considered treacherous, so it's free/open PK, just like UW and Annwyn. I don't get the bickering and bitching about "random ship ganks"... no one bitches when they get stomped in Annwyn

This doesn't mean that seafaring is good, just that people need to stop their fucking tears

You can bash and quest (the only two things to do in Annwyn and the Underworld if you're not going there to PK) in loads of other areas that aren't treacherous planes. Literally the only place to sail is the seas. The two aren't comparable.

Aegoth

Antonius said:

Aegoth said:

I think everyone is forgetting that the seas are considered treacherous, so it's free/open PK, just like UW and Annwyn. I don't get the bickering and bitching about "random ship ganks"... no one bitches when they get stomped in Annwyn

This doesn't mean that seafaring is good, just that people need to stop their fucking tears

You can bash and quest (the only two things to do in Annwyn and the Underworld if you're not going there to PK) in loads of other areas that aren't treacherous planes. Literally the only place to sail is the seas. The two aren't comparable.

So what? That does nothing to argue my point: seas are 100% open PK, so crying solves nothing

Mathilda

Aegoth said:

Antonius said:

Aegoth said:

I think everyone is forgetting that the seas are considered treacherous, so it's free/open PK, just like UW and Annwyn. I don't get the bickering and bitching about "random ship ganks"... no one bitches when they get stomped in Annwyn

This doesn't mean that seafaring is good, just that people need to stop their fucking tears

You can bash and quest (the only two things to do in Annwyn and the Underworld if you're not going there to PK) in loads of other areas that aren't treacherous planes. Literally the only place to sail is the seas. The two aren't comparable.

So what? That does nothing to argue my point: seas are 100% open PK, so crying solves nothing

Yeah, Jinsun should stop whining about being gangbanged in the seas. It's open PK.

edit: my point, is that it's ridiculous either way. Ship trading sucks. Ship combat sucks. Much change needed.

Jinsun

You guys gonna offer solutions like the rest of us or just keep saying people are too whiny? Take this crap to rants.

Another solution I thought of is offering two types of salvaging:

Free salvage. To shastaan or thraasi only, takes an hour.

Premium salvage. Immediate at the harbour of request but costs gold. 

IRE could also offer arties that affect salvaging/sinking to give people the option of mitigation without losing their financial interests in sailing.

Klendathu

Salvage cranes are 100k: zero upkeep, immediate salvage at zero cost. This already exists. Yes, the aggresor could attack the salvager, but if you went to Annwyn to collect a friend's corpse, you might get attacked, so bring a friend (or two)

Antonius

Klendathu said:

Salvage cranes are 100k: zero upkeep, immediate salvage at zero cost. This already exists. Yes, the aggresor could attack the salvager, but if you went to Annwyn to collect a friend's corpse, you might get attacked, so bring a friend (or two)

If you die in Annwyn, you can just embrace death, wait a couple of minutes and carry on your merry way. You don't need somebody to collect your corpse or to pay a gold fee before you're allowed to go hunting again.

[Deleted User]

Just gonna point out that how Jinsun acts should in no way be brought into question, when discussing the very prevalent problems he's bringing up. It's weird that there's plenty agreeing with him, yet he's the only one people are attacking. Stop being assholes just because it's Jinsun posting, and actually read what he (and a number of others, actually) are saying.

You're perfectly free to argue his points, without going after him directly.

Jinsun

It's almost like the OOC level of harassment and inappropriate hate I mentioned was slight validated

Tahquil

I'd rather if the points were back on discussing trading rather than if piracy and the retribution it brings about.

Let's be honest, the only give-back piracy had to the community got a huge kick in the balls once forceboarding was removed and charismatic, face-to-face interactions that did led to any sort of roleplay other than "STEAMROLL THAT FUCKER" got nixed.

Atalkez

Forceboard removal was the worst decision regarding Seafaring I’ve seen.

Jinsun

"I don't wanna talk about piracy."

Talks about piracy. 

The reason the discussion devolved was that one of the key concerns with ship trading is piracy and the real fear of sinking and the overkill consequences thereof. That's why some of the suggestions involve not losing all cargo or reduced salvage cost. You're welcome to provide suggestions instead of trolling 

Tahquil

Dude I was trying to help you.  Fuck you too.

Dupre

lol                  

Jinsun

Tahquil said:

Dude I was trying to help you.  Fuck you too.

Maybe you were? But that came out as pirates steamroll people with no attempt at RP due to no forceboard , which is not the case. I've had maybe two face to face negotiations because the person extended plank which was really cool and nice. I've had several in tells negotiations or in yells. Whole lot of "fuck you, you stupid piece of shit. I hope you get shrubbed" a la Dupre type encounters. Those are the people I steamroll without further chance of RP.

Jinsun

New idea also: people camp islands for ooc years and are permanently parked there. This is ridiculous always has been and clogs harbours.

Proposal: after two years away from mainland a mutiny timer begins (there will be daily warning starting before the two years). At the end of your two years, morale ticks down until you return to a mainland harbour and if it hits 0 the crew scuttles the ship so you have to salvage.

Cailin

What is the purpose behind the mechanic of having harbours be "too full", anyways?

Jinsun

Cailin said:

What is the purpose behind the mechanic of having harbours be "too full", anyways?

I imagine it's to force us to be good stewards and not crowd/camp the islands. Unfortunately we aren't good stewards.

Dairon

Whats the issue of crowding islands? People crowd Azdun, Dun etc all the time. Not having a limit would lead to more interaction, I’d think. 

Accipiter

If the harbour is full you don't get access to the islands unless you leave your ship out on the map and use the ropes to disembark, which is a bad idea if no one is hanging around on the boat.

Dupre

By crowding they mean overrunning the island with people hunting, not the harbour being full

Jinsun

No we mean the harbour being full. People will leave their ships at a harbour for OOC years, sometimes filling entire harbours. It is ridiculous.

Dairon

Nobody has answered the question though. Whats the reason behind having a limit on docked ships? I can’t see why a billion ships can be docked on Tapoa, as it will possibly (probably) raise conflicts. People won’t dock at certain islands because the island isn’t of any interest. Other islands have better incentives. 

Jinsun

There are only 3 islands I can think of that don't have regular ships permanently docked at them- Ilyrean, Suliel and Karbaz. Most of the rest do. Again, I think the goal was to keep populations on islands small, and have people come and go so that they don't get crowded, but people are assholes and don't go.

Dairon

I definitely have a biased view on this (because of the god damn purple eagle feathers), but I wouldn’t mind seeing the limit go away entirely. People would’t be assholes if there weren’t limits on docks. 

I think the initial concern was that people would just stay out at islands (like me). I can say for sure that I probably would be in the mainland more if Tuar was bashed out and I had nothing to do. People visit islands for a reason, and there really isnt much to do there if someone else took the opportunity. 

The very few times I met someone at Tuar have mostly led to cool interactions. I’ve pulled off deals to stay off the island (me, not the other person), made talisman trades that led to a business partner, etc. This is all RP opportunity. At the moment, visiting an island is all about the (again) bloody purple eagle feathers. 

Jinsun

That's why I don't want it to be the limit raised, but people to be forced back, it gives all of us more naval traffic and interaction without draining the seas cause everyone is stayin on one island

Klendathu

Jinsun said:

That's why I don't want it to be the limit raised, but people to be forced back, it gives all of us more naval traffic and interaction without draining the seas cause everyone is stayin on one island

How about more carrot, less stick?

Mindshell

This is already the case at unmanned harbours though, if you leave your ship too long it'll sink. Everyone is forced to leave/return after 2 years as is.

Ismay

Jinsun said:

That's why I don't want it to be the limit raised, but people to be forced back, it gives all of us more naval traffic and interaction without draining the seas cause everyone is stayin on one island

Why not just force everyone to do shit they don’t want to do or find too tedious/risky and empty the seas all together once players stop sailing? Sounds like an awesome idea to me.