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Refugees of Shallam, how are you coping?
This discussion has been closed.
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Svof
Mudlet Discord join up
This situation is quite similar to the sword though, isn't it? (but on a much smaller scale)
I'm staying way away from commenting in this thread, as it's not my place, but if I'm remembering correctly, that was Notia, not Miramar and crew!
Believe it was the Obelisk...
That love soon might end You are unbreaking
And be known in its aching Though quaking
Shown in this shaking Though crazy
Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
Completely forgot about Shallam smashing the Obelisk.
That might actually put Shallam up as top of the list when it comes to major event victories.
Just for a comparrison as I'm bored:
Hashan: Sry guys, but I don't think you've won at all. Maybe we can count Narazar as it was Twilight's scheme? Idk.
Cyrene: Defeated Theodelinda.
Ashtan: Marvinogian (take 3), Sarranda.
Shallam: Battle of the storm, obelisk of darkness, athame, the recent event stuff (let's not count that as everyone kind of got something out of it).
Eleusis: Not involved enough with Eleusis to know if they win or lose much in their factional events, but they seem the happiest out of everyone (excluding exterminations), so good for them.
Mhaldor: Aren't allowed to win, against their rp. Hail suffering, etc.
Tl;dr: This attitude of we lose constantly in events is nonsense, and I get the impression the people who perpetuate it won't be happy until they're winning every time.
Sometimes you aren't going to win. Sometimes you aren't meant to win.
Edit: I'm not saying I agree or that it's true, just that this is the more major complaint.
I hated Shallam. Not because we lost or won or didn't get enough jollies off on our own things, but because of the incessant infighting, bickering, clique-ridden place that it was. Yet, it was a love-hate thing for me. I left Shallam months and months ago along with the Dawnstriders (I have a horrid memory, so don't expect me to mention dates, et cetera). I rejoined the Dawnstriders not but a few months ago and had IRL issues come up that took me away again. I did not rejoin Shallam, though.
I was able to return on the day after Shallam sank during this event and I was actually so completely intrigued that I joined the Refugees (since I was a Dawnstrider and was punted to the Nomads of Dawn, it wasn't difficult). I am a bit bored at times with sitting in a monastery without any clear direction other than the couple of orders given to us by Deucalion, but I'm also very excited to see the new direction that this all goes in. As far as the politics go, I don't think Halos should have backed down as he did. Then again, I'm not exactly sure right now was the time for Wyverex to contest either. Nothing is as clear-cut as everyone wants it to be or thinks it should be.
Reforming a NEW city, starting over with a new "constitution", new laws, a new government form would be great and a lot of hard work and if that's the way it's going to go, I'm excited to start this chapter of life with the Refugees. Many of you who state that this is a time to not rebuild but to make something new altogether, I hope, will understand that getting everything set up and settled isn't going to happen in a week or even a month. During this time, until we have some sort of semblance of city walls, things are either in a state of suspension or in upheaval- from either politics or outside influence (in example: raids). Not that I mind, it gives life as a refugee a much less "sit around and be bored every minute until someone hands you your new city on a platter without you having done anything to help" feeling.
Rebuilding Shallam would be even worse. There have been many good things about Shallam and many bad, but we have a chance to cast that off and start anew, riding on the coattails of the returned Deucalion and Aurora. So, hope is how I'm coping both in character and out of character. Even if I get frustrated and angry at Tanris and company when they raid, heh.
One more thing and then I think I'll close off my post. I think whoever mentioned houses is also right. It's a time for them to rebuild as well. The former Dawnstriders now the Nomads of Dawn have even been looking for sites to build a new house at and are trying to move forward and do the best we can with what we have. I think many of us have some excellent ideas and we've all been working together as a group instead of two or three people deciding everything without anyone else knowing. I'm not sure how the other former houses are coming about, but that's their own thing.
In conclusion, things are as they are. Things will get done. Hopefully there are those who are willing to set aside bullcrap and farce to work together instead of making everything a chore to be rushed through and done half-assed just to get it over with.
I've talked to Wyverex, Halos, and most of the former HLs ( @Achilles I think you're the only one I haven't). Simply rebuilding Shallam and the Houses as they were is not on the table from practically anybody. Almost everyone is interested in bottom-up changes, starting with the leaner, less ambiguous definition of Good that we're expecting out of Deucalion and Aurora.
Edit: As for retaining various leaders from Old Shallam, I think it really depends on the position. I can't see anyone but Yen as Treasurer, nor do I see any reason to change it. The big cultural posts, like War, Culture, and to a lesser extent Security, Maritime, and Ambassador, these should be changed up and have fresher people installed.
The House clans choose their own leaders, and any renaissance for them needs to come from within. I'm already seeing a lot of indications of the Sentaari wanting to move away from our wishy-washy roots. A decade (RL) ago the Sentaari were dragged kicking and screaming to the Good side, and it's tainted us since. Time to double down.
I think that's exactly the point. When people calm down, I don't think anyone really thinks that events are being structured so that Shallam will lose. It's about Shallam getting to play protagonist. All of the events Tanris lists are events where the protagonist is the other faction. The frustration arises from the fact that Shallam is the object to the other faction's subject. This is a function of patronage. I think under Aurora/Deucalion it will change - give it a chance.
But I think it's important to note that rephrased as per the above, the Shallamese complaint is absolutely valid, and we have a much better chance of making a better game if we recognise where other people have valid points rather than always responding "This is ridiculous, because blah". That just hardens positions, and spurs mutual defensiveness and you end up with what happened in Shallam where the "militant" faction and the "truffle" faction (both of whom had valid points, and served valid roles in the faction) regarded each other as utterly insane and the absolute embodiment of everything that was wrong. It doesn't help. I love #winning as much as the next internet troll, but in a thread trying to work out the best way forward I think it's healthier to aim for "I see where you're coming from, but..." rather than "you crazy, dawg" /randy.
Unless it's Tanaar posting of course.
@Vansittart I have the balls to post under my main's name. Maybe you should reexamine your own testicular fortitude if you're going to troll people but have to do so anonymously
This is my main.
Addressing the point above though, which you've now made three times by the way - I think "please don't talk about it" is a fairly terrible comment. Outsiders often have interesting perspectives which you can miss from the inside. If they are factually wrong, or you can help focus their commentary with an insider's perspective then go for it. But begging that everyone just doesn't disagree with you, or have a view, or that discussion is somehow inherently invalid is the hallmark of someone who cannot justify their opinions on their own merits.
Genuine, constructive comments from outsiders that have long-standing interaction with Shallam are fine. I may simply have phrased my rebuke poorly if I gave a contrary impression.
As for you, your character is 28 IC years old, yet you referenced Shallam elsewhere as being without significant divine guidance for 3 RL years. You're not really fooling anyone.