I'm gonna leave most of the situation alone since I'm not involved, but I see no reason why the Refugees shouldn't be allowed to totem at least a base section of New Hope, tune it to the Refugees clan, and enemy anyone causing trouble. I mean, it is currently their "Area of Operation."
Code doesn't currently allow you to tune totems to clans in any form.
It was annoying for a certain project in Cyrene, so I can only imagine how annoying it is for the refugees.
And I love too Be still, my indelible friend That love soon might end You are unbreaking And be known in its aching Though quaking Shown in this shaking Though crazy Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
You'd think high clans would count as organisations. Though I could see that easily getting abused by @Xith in Moghedu.
(D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."
I am hoping that the admin have a new city and ideology planned out, along with houses and their ideologies, and that they won't let certain stagnant leaders regain their leadership positions ever again.
The current/recent leadership of Shallam (and I say that loosely, I don't mean any one person or any one admin) has not been good. There have been too many old players clinging onto power (and before you go oh Cooper isn't that you!!! No, after my stint as Vizier I turned down every position offered to me as I'm not the person we need now), and there are currently too many old players around that will make the city and houses the exact same as they were in a heartbeat.
That being said, the current 'Halos is terrible blah blah Wyverex is so good and such a great leader' is ridiculous. Halos was doing an amazing job of not overstepping bounds and keeping some people busy without giving them the notion that we are going to attempt to rebuild Shallam the same as it was. The people that have challenged him (and now, forced him to resign as current leader) are the exact people we don't want in the new city.
The people who have come back from dormancy and are outspoken, the 18/19/20/21/22 year olds who are 0% my might, the Shalalts who were dormant most of their existance or not really played, and the people who fought hard to keep up the status quo in Shallam the last few years - all of them need to shut up, or bow out of the city and leave those ready to accept change and a better city in peace.
I admit, I revived my Shalalt during this. But there's a reason I've been keeping quiet and not really stirring things up or doing a lot of anything. This isn't my organization to guide, and while if it goes the way I'd like to I might even shift over to said alt as my primary, my role is definitely not to tell you how to do that.
I do think a purging of members was needed to help refocus and concentrate the members so that cohesive base is able to be made.. I don't think this contention has been handled terribly well, and that's all I'm going to say on either.
I am, however, quite impressed with some of the other leadership I've seen. There's people who are making the refugees feel purposeful, and there's people who aren't. You guys know where to put your efforts.
Are Deucalion and Aurora's orders even up yet, by the way?
You'd think high clans would count as organisations. Though I could see that easily getting abused by @Xith in Moghedu.
It's actually already on the approved change list as per @Xith. High Clans are supposed to count as organisations. So when they have a valid area of interest, defending it is perfectly reasonable.
But obviously you can't totem a denizen area without first being allied to them, which GoM is not yet.
I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
Just going to put it out there, a lot of the babelites work really hard with their god on an OOC level. They are continuously submitting highly-detailed plots to Babel for assessment acceptance, tweaking etc. etc. While I'm not trying to take the shine of how amazing Babel is, he gets a lot of support and help from his followers which gives him more time to support and help his followers.
You're gonna have to do the same with Deucalion and Aurora. Want to have events and strike back at Ashtan? Get off your asses and put forward some ideas. Don't just wait around for some event to happen; plot, plan and proceed with your gods, take some of their burden because if they have to drag you kicking and screaming by the nose they're going to burn out quick.
@Tahquil: That's virtually impossible without a framework in which to write. You can't just jot down an event without much of a context, because at that point, you're penning the whole shebang yourself.
Y'know what? I would absolutely love to write stuff for my faction, and have done so in the past. But don't take what's already there for granted. I'm not going to invent an entirely new race, or a whole new plane, because I frankly lack that authorial control over Achaea. The impact is too far-reaching. So, as the schema's not already set, my hands are tied. Babel's kids write lots of stories, yeah, but they do so having fed on a rich cornucopia of fiction.
That said, I would absolutely love to brainstorm or be involved in the "big picture" stuff. God knows I've been outspoken in the way I'd like forest aesthetics (for example) to be.
Looking in from the outside at all this, it does really feel like the recent event went ahead literally just to kick the refugees down further, especially if there was nothing they could really do to retrieve the infant. That's pretty poor, and it makes me feel bad that an actual Divine supported that kind of non-interaction by sanctioning the event and letting it proceed. I'm glad you put a whole bunch of work into submitting the plot and having it approved or whatever, but you honestly couldn't wait a couple of weeks for the refugees to sort themselves out before kicking them in the shins again?
I take back what I said earlier - that is really poor from both an IC and OOC perspective. Interactions are supposed to be fun for both sides - what is the point if there is no plausible counter or recourse to the plot that can be performed by the opposing side to alter the event?
I have over 9000 faith that whoever's playing Babel wants literally nothing but to create enjoyment for everyone playing this game, whether they're on Team Nasty or Team Nice, and if things turned out otherwise - ie. you didn't enjoy it - it was either a misunderstanding or a mistake.
Absolutely agreed, Blujibear. The whole of this thread is really interesting reading, and gives you a lot of insight into how/why a Shallamese re-building might fail (and maybe even a bit into why it might succeed).
I completely endorse Shallamese event frustration. It is a simple fact that for the last, hmm, 3 years? Probably a lot more, to be honest - Shallam has not had pro-active patronage from a divine perspective. It responds to Babel's evil schemes, it responds to Evil's evil schemes, Darkness's evil schemes and only rarely does it get to play initiator and protagonist. I think Shallam's enemies do a great job of not providing an event where "The Forces of Light suffer again!" but it is inevitable that a story written by, pushed forward by, and told from the perspective of Evil or Chaos or Darkness or whatever is going to be more satisfying to the adherents of that faction. This is not really intended as a criticism of the Good gods (RIP) by the way who I think try their best in circumstances that would drive management gurus to resign and check themselves into a mental hospital, just an observation.
This leads to Shallam being stuck in a reactive position - which is evidenced above. Given what is, in effect, a sandbox, people are conditioned not to start building the best castle they can but to passively wait for things to get better and see what castle is delivered to them (secure in the knowledge that it will be terrible). To see roleplay as things done to them, rather than taking the initiative. To fall back into the same old ways (and I'm going to try and not get sucked into discussing the absolute rank stupidity of running an election during the Bal'met event because an angry Tart, is a sad Tart).
I genuinely believe that we have been given the opportunity to change all that. That Aurora and Deucalion are a new page, that they will be amazing pro-active gods who tell amazing stories where Shallam is not only a key player, but which are told from a Shallamese perspective. I think there are a lot of signs to indicate that is true. This is almost like the Vertani event where the playerbase as a whole generally failed the test of dealing with an open-ended event. I can't think of a more obvious statement that the Gods are focused on Shallam, and ready to let the players do what they want and have a real impact than what has just happened.
And even if this isn't true, believing that it is true is the only possible way things will improve. If you are given signs that the administration are willing to work with you, to change, to be pro-active, to build what you want to build and you still can't believe it, then your only responsibility is to get out of the way. To resign, to leave the faction, to be silent. Because your cynicism is immedicable and irredeemable - you will only sour and spoil the potential that does exist.
In summary: stop whining, stop obsessing over internal politics, start believing change is coming and work on creating the change you want.
Aurora literally just slew the world-threatening big bad and saved the day for everyone, and now we've got people complaining because Ashtan had a player-driven mini-event where a single unimportant Shallam-aligned denizen died? Because it's part of a pattern of the Good side never getting any victories? I reeeally have to echo @Tahquil's final comment. This whole Shallam reset thing represents a massive undertaking of unpaid volunteers working long hours to try to make the gaming experience better for a specific group of players. If all they get for their trouble is a constant stream of complaining from players who seem to think the gods just sit around looking for ways to punch Shallam in the teeth, they're going to burn out really, really fast. Try to shake the OOC martyr complexes a little bit and actually enjoy the fairly epic story you're in the middle of. I 100% agree with @Vansittart's final line. Achaea hasn't done something this cool and specialised for a group of players since the founding of Mhaldor way back in 2002.
Looking in from the outside at all this, it does really feel like the recent event went ahead literally just to kick the refugees down further, especially if there was nothing they could really do to retrieve the infant. That's pretty poor, and it makes me feel bad that an actual Divine supported that kind of non-interaction by sanctioning the event and letting it proceed. I'm glad you put a whole bunch of work into submitting the plot and having it approved or whatever, but you honestly couldn't wait a couple of weeks for the refugees to sort themselves out before kicking them in the shins again?
I take back what I said earlier - that is really poor from both an IC and OOC perspective. Interactions are supposed to be fun for both sides - what is the point if there is no plausible counter or recourse to the plot that can be performed by the opposing side to alter the event?
I have over 9000 faith that whoever's playing Babel wants literally nothing but to create enjoyment for everyone playing this game, whether they're on Team Nasty or Team Nice, and if things turned out otherwise - ie. you didn't enjoy it - it was either a misunderstanding or a mistake.
TBH, such things often tend to sound more epic from the outside, when you don't have to deal with all the tedious annoying things/people that define day-to-day affairs. Can't really judge it, since I have no character in the refugees, but I know it from similar circumstances, so I can somewhat sympathise with the ex-Shallam players, even though I agree that it has a huge epic potential on a greater scale.
The last time I tried to run an event with Shallam, I was informed that the city's Divine were being extremely cautious about any events that had Shallam losing (in any form) because the players would take to it badly. This was before the Bal'met event, but after I stepped down as a Viceroy.
I think most people are more worried about the political situation than the orphan slaying. I haven't even heard a peep about that on OOC clans in-game.
Just going to put it out there, a lot of the babelites work really hard with their god on an OOC level. They are continuously submitting highly-detailed plots to Babel for assessment acceptance, tweaking etc. etc. While I'm not trying to take the shine of how amazing Babel is, he gets a lot of support and help from his followers which gives him more time to support and help his followers.
You're gonna have to do the same with Deucalion and Aurora. Want to have events and strike back at Ashtan? Get off your asses and put forward some ideas. Don't just wait around for some event to happen; plot, plan and proceed with your gods, take some of their burden because if they have to drag you kicking and screaming by the nose they're going to burn out quick.
Can I ask since when did these kinds of "hey guy, I'd like to screw over x faction today, can we work that out" relationships you're implying started coming about? This sounds new to me.
Mystic Moses (male Dwarf). He is 334 years old, having been born on the 24th of Phaestian, 279 years after the fall of the Seleucarian Empire. He is ranked 1659th in Achaea. He is an extremely credible character. He is not known for acts of infamy. He is a Peasant in Hashan. He is considered to be approximately 115% of your might. He is a mentor and able to take on proteges. His warcry: 'Welcome to the land of Milk and Honey' He has been engaged to be married to Lil' Lorelei Lee for 3380 months.
Comments
It was annoying for a certain project in Cyrene, so I can only imagine how annoying it is for the refugees.
That love soon might end You are unbreaking
And be known in its aching Though quaking
Shown in this shaking Though crazy
Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
It's actually already on the approved change list as per @Xith. High Clans are supposed to count as organisations. So when they have a valid area of interest, defending it is perfectly reasonable.
But obviously you can't totem a denizen area without first being allied to them, which GoM is not yet.
Y'know what? I would absolutely love to write stuff for my faction, and have done so in the past. But don't take what's already there for granted. I'm not going to invent an entirely new race, or a whole new plane, because I frankly lack that authorial control over Achaea. The impact is too far-reaching. So, as the schema's not already set, my hands are tied. Babel's kids write lots of stories, yeah, but they do so having fed on a rich cornucopia of fiction.
That said, I would absolutely love to brainstorm or be involved in the "big picture" stuff. God knows I've been outspoken in the way I'd like forest aesthetics (for example) to be.
Absolutely agreed, Blujibear. The whole of this thread is really interesting reading, and gives you a lot of insight into how/why a Shallamese re-building might fail (and maybe even a bit into why it might succeed).
I completely endorse Shallamese event frustration. It is a simple fact that for the last, hmm, 3 years? Probably a lot more, to be honest - Shallam has not had pro-active patronage from a divine perspective. It responds to Babel's evil schemes, it responds to Evil's evil schemes, Darkness's evil schemes and only rarely does it get to play initiator and protagonist. I think Shallam's enemies do a great job of not providing an event where "The Forces of Light suffer again!" but it is inevitable that a story written by, pushed forward by, and told from the perspective of Evil or Chaos or Darkness or whatever is going to be more satisfying to the adherents of that faction. This is not really intended as a criticism of the Good gods (RIP) by the way who I think try their best in circumstances that would drive management gurus to resign and check themselves into a mental hospital, just an observation.
This leads to Shallam being stuck in a reactive position - which is evidenced above. Given what is, in effect, a sandbox, people are conditioned not to start building the best castle they can but to passively wait for things to get better and see what castle is delivered to them (secure in the knowledge that it will be terrible). To see roleplay as things done to them, rather than taking the initiative. To fall back into the same old ways (and I'm going to try and not get sucked into discussing the absolute rank stupidity of running an election during the Bal'met event because an angry Tart, is a sad Tart).
I genuinely believe that we have been given the opportunity to change all that. That Aurora and Deucalion are a new page, that they will be amazing pro-active gods who tell amazing stories where Shallam is not only a key player, but which are told from a Shallamese perspective. I think there are a lot of signs to indicate that is true. This is almost like the Vertani event where the playerbase as a whole generally failed the test of dealing with an open-ended event. I can't think of a more obvious statement that the Gods are focused on Shallam, and ready to let the players do what they want and have a real impact than what has just happened.
And even if this isn't true, believing that it is true is the only possible way things will improve. If you are given signs that the administration are willing to work with you, to change, to be pro-active, to build what you want to build and you still can't believe it, then your only responsibility is to get out of the way. To resign, to leave the faction, to be silent. Because your cynicism is immedicable and irredeemable - you will only sour and spoil the potential that does exist.
In summary: stop whining, stop obsessing over internal politics, start believing change is coming and work on creating the change you want.
→My Mudlet Scripts
The last time I tried to run an event with Shallam, I was informed that the city's Divine were being extremely cautious about any events that had Shallam losing (in any form) because the players would take to it badly. This was before the Bal'met event, but after I stepped down as a Viceroy.
Svof
Mudlet Discord join up
Mystic Moses (male Dwarf).
He is 334 years old, having been born on the 24th of Phaestian, 279 years after the fall of the
Seleucarian Empire.
He is ranked 1659th in Achaea.
He is an extremely credible character.
He is not known for acts of infamy.
He is a Peasant in Hashan.
He is considered to be approximately 115% of your might.
He is a mentor and able to take on proteges.
His warcry: 'Welcome to the land of Milk and Honey'
He has been engaged to be married to Lil' Lorelei Lee for 3380 months.
A bit too late for that.
Do it now.