Refugees of Shallam, how are you coping?

Draqoom

There was a small handful of people who were just inducted after it was created and then they collectively decided that it should be only the people who were Shallamese at the time of the sinking so the others were removed, myself included. You can't join the clan for that reason, but you can still get yourself accepted as one of them with some effort if interested. I was told that the reason Bluef was allowed to stay was very strong ties to the Dawnstriders, and really if I had wanted to I was kind of told that I could've used the Sentaari to get in as well but I thought that'd be lame since I didn't agree with the Sentaari at that time.

Tanaar

None of the above is true.

You were kicked because the person that inducted you hadn't realized you were an enemy before the Fall. You were also the only one, not part of a small group. Bluef didn't have 'strong ties,' she was an actual member of the Dawnies. You wouldn't have been accepted into the Sentaari, and it wasn't because you disagreed with us, it was because you betrayed us and got enemied.

Why do you think orgs are so willing to forgive and forget someone that changes allegiances like they do clothes?

ETA: I don't personally have an issue with you, Draqoom, I even kind of liked you when you were with us. You simply seem to be operating under a series of delusions you need to be disabused of. You want back onto Team Good? Do it the right way, instead of just assuming you should be immediately welcomed without question.

Terra

Manix said:

I have a question regarding the refugees that I'm not really sure where else I would post... I've been seeking entrance into the refugees for a little while now and from the perspective of an outsider, it's been really difficult. While I understand that and I'm perfectly okay with it, I just wondered if members of the refugees could shed some light on when it's going to be feasible for outsiders wanting to be inducted and learn more about the refugees and Aurora and Deucalion to actually pursue these things. As there are no doctrines regarding the refugees or scriptures or temples on their Gods, I haven't much to do roleplay wise in the meantime. I spoke with @Wyverex, and he basically told me to be patient. @Halos was quite helpful, telling me to speak to some followers of Aurora and Deucalion, but that's quite a daunting task to me when I know so little about them and really don't have much to speak about, and I don't know how people would feel about what would just end up as a lecture. 

In all, I'm just curious about - from the context of an outsider - when it's going to be possible to learn about and join the refugees, and if you know any more than I myself do. 

Thanks very much for bearing with me!

I basically "joined" the refugees without actually joining them. Terra would never consider herself a "refugee" anyway (what a lame name for a group!). What you can do is speak to refugees about your desire to serve Good and become essentially accepted into the community without being a member of the clan. You can also seek the Orders, if that's something you're interested in.

Draqoom

They aren't delusions when people tell me these things. If I made them up that would be one thing, but I was told those things specifically. If it's different than how I was told that's fine. I mean when I was in the process of being inducted I and the person inducting me seemed to think that all things were in the clear (having been aware of my enemy status as he was there when I was enemied and sent me a couple unhappy messages and tells for a couple days) and when I spoke to the Sentaari they seemed fine with me joining them (not you and apparently not with you being included in any kind of talks). Misunderstandings and miscommunication, no worries.

I have no fantasies about people just forgetting about the class house and org hopping and embracing me with open arms. I do try to mend my mistakes, often times I succeed, sometimes I don't. It's part of who he is as a character.

Also, for the lulz, Draqoom has been wearing the same clothes for the better part of 70ish years?

Shibumi

Getting back to the original topic, I have to say that I am not copying very well with the obliteration of Shallam. Also, the issues with the disbandment of the House of Sentaari just added the proverbial cherry on top. I will see what happens next, and be patient about the events.

Tanaar

@Shibumi the reason the Sentaari are imploding more than most other Houses is because there's a huge portion of the House that never saw it as a duty or responsibility or even part of the Sentaari culture to be Good. They were trying to be Cyrenian in *Shallam, and it made the Sentaari a weak, dysfunctional mess. This crisis is just turning a mirror on that nonsense and forcing them to really deal with it for the first time. Hell, I didn't realize how bad it really was, and I'm frankly ashamed that I've been defending people who signed up for a Good House but didn't really want any part of Good for nigh on a decade now.

Draqoom, whatever man. I was part of the conversation during which you were booted. It pretty much went like this. "Hey, wasn't Draqoom enemied before the Fall?" "Yes, he was." "Time to boot him then." Your 'people telling you things' are wrong.

Shibumi

Tanaar said:

@Shibumi the reason the Sentaari are imploding more than most other Houses is because there's a huge portion of the House that never saw it as a duty or responsibility or even part of the Sentaari culture to be Good. They were trying to be Cyrenian in *Shallam, and it made the Sentaari a weak, dysfunctional mess. This crisis is just turning a mirror on that nonsense and forcing them to really deal with it for the first time. Hell, I didn't realize how bad it really was, and I'm frankly ashamed that I've been defending people who signed up for a Good House but didn't really want any part of Good for nigh on a decade now.

I just do not see why it is difficult to acknowledge that some Sentaari like myself were devoted to Good, and proud to be a Sentaari. Anyway, being a late joiner, I did not do that much to prevent this, and the roots of destruction of the House were already deep. This is just sad, because I joined the Sentaari to serve Good and Light in the first place. Now, the House I idealistically fell in love with will be no more. That is disappointing, to say the least. Maybe, the older Sentaari member where not good Sentaari and the House was already doomed when I became HR3 (which is nothing, I know), but this sucks badly. 

Elowin

Sentaari started out neutral and citiless waaaay back in the day, right?

Anaidiana

@Elowin, @Tanaar, @Shibumi:

The original Sentaari were indeed Neutral aligned and founded at the mouth of the Zaphar waaaaaaaaaaaaay way back in the day. The guild apparently moved to Shallam right before I joined up/was reborn/whatevered. Elsdragon was GM when I was a noob. Then Mical and Crius fought over it, the city-guild charter was the first thing we were forced to sign and the first schism of the Sentaari. Then we were forced to change our ideals (we lost Individuality for Benevolence - schism #2). Then forced to change our alignment from Neutral to Good (schism #3). We tried leaving, several times. We were threatened with disbandment if we asked again. So we sucked it up and dealt. And now this. 

 And we didn't have a 'huge portion of the house' to be good. There were maybe 5-10 ACTIVE non-Shallamese Sentaari. Akemi, Naomh, and Ikue are the one who pop first to mind, and the former two already left the wanderers clan (but Naomh's back?). 

Tvistor

Just an FYI, every non-novice member of *shallam to ever give me restricted information was a Dawnstrider.

Seriously, fail. =/

Tanaar

Anaidiana said:

@Elowin, @Tanaar, @Shibumi:

The original Sentaari were indeed Neutral aligned and founded at the mouth of the Zaphar waaaaaaaaaaaaay way back in the day. The guild apparently moved to Shallam right before I joined up/was reborn/whatevered. Elsdragon was GM when I was a noob. Then Mical and Crius fought over it, the city-guild charter was the first thing we were forced to sign and the first schism of the Sentaari. Then we were forced to change our ideals (we lost Individuality for Benevolence - schism #2). Then forced to change our alignment from Neutral to Good (schism #3). We tried leaving, several times. We were threatened with disbandment if we asked again. So we sucked it up and dealt. And now this. 

 And we didn't have a 'huge portion of the house' to be good. There were maybe 5-10 ACTIVE non-Shallamese Sentaari. Akemi, Naomh, and Ikue are the one who pop first to mind, and the former two already left the wanderers clan (but Naomh's back?). 

Anai, you and Harrold are the only active (and I use the term loosely in Harrold's case) members of the Sentaari who were around when the neutral to good change occurred. Every single other member actively chose to join a guild/House that was defined by a Good alignment. Squirming away from that now and claiming they didn't sign up for a truly Good org is just ridiculous.

Rangor

Tvistor said:

Just an FYI, every non-novice member of *shallam to ever give me restricted information was a Dawnstrider.

Seriously, fail. =/

Who's alt was it?  |)

Tvistor

All Rangroar alts. (and Cooper alts)

Shibumi

Tanaar said:

Anaidiana said:

@Elowin, @Tanaar, @Shibumi:

The original Sentaari were indeed Neutral aligned and founded at the mouth of the Zaphar waaaaaaaaaaaaay way back in the day. The guild apparently moved to Shallam right before I joined up/was reborn/whatevered. Elsdragon was GM when I was a noob. Then Mical and Crius fought over it, the city-guild charter was the first thing we were forced to sign and the first schism of the Sentaari. Then we were forced to change our ideals (we lost Individuality for Benevolence - schism #2). Then forced to change our alignment from Neutral to Good (schism #3). We tried leaving, several times. We were threatened with disbandment if we asked again. So we sucked it up and dealt. And now this. 

 And we didn't have a 'huge portion of the house' to be good. There were maybe 5-10 ACTIVE non-Shallamese Sentaari. Akemi, Naomh, and Ikue are the one who pop first to mind, and the former two already left the wanderers clan (but Naomh's back?). 

Anai, you and Harrold are the only active (and I use the term loosely in Harrold's case) members of the Sentaari who were around when the neutral to good change occurred. Every single other member actively chose to join a guild/House that was defined by a Good alignment. Squirming away from that now and claiming they didn't sign up for a truly Good org is just ridiculous.

@Tanaar. That is exactly my point. I am unable to serve Good as a Sentaari at the moment. I joined the Sentaari because they served Good and such House was monk-oriented. And now what? The house is no more...I know I have to make a decision. So, it seems that either I join a non monk-oriented House in the new city (if I am found eligible) or wander in Sapience. Still I will serve Good and Light, though. It is the aut aut situation that I despise the most. I want to evaluate other options, but obliterating the House of Sentaari is barely tolerable from me. I also defended the City on any occasion to the best of my little abilities and knowledge. I felt, as a newbie, that the House had issues to be dealt with, but it is just a pity that I was extremely late into getting in a position to solve them, assuming I had the ability to be successful, which I doubt in the first place. We'll see what will happen next. OOC: What can I say? This is simply a great game! 

Sohl

It's waaaaaay too early to assume there won't be a monk-oriented (as much as any house can be focused on one class, post guilds) house in the new city. 

Tanaar

We were specifically told not to base our proposals around class themes. I'm assuming those that ignored this instruction (ie mos of them, *shallamese don't follow directions) were discarded

Zuko

I really hope there is a new monastic House, I loved the Sentaari-Style and hope there is another good monk House in the new city.

Zuko

Also what would everyone estimate the amount of time until they select charters?

Siena

In any sense, when they DO decide to get the ball rolling it might be worth the wait. I can't wait to see what charters they chose as well as what type of city it is etc etc

Ada

From IRE's newsletter:

... Perhaps most importantly, the refugees of Shallam are yet unsettled and continue to wander the land without a home.

Hey, that's a hint other nations should send their missionaries with food and medicine here. Silvarien visits us with food and his magic orb.
:x

Vayne

I came to see how you were all doing once. I got swords pointed at me.

Iocun

Follow the prophet Silvarien and he will lead you to the sacred land of Israel Seleucar Cyrene.

Veldrin

Ada said:

From IRE's newsletter:

... Perhaps most importantly, the refugees of Shallam are yet unsettled and continue to wander the land without a home.

Hey, that's a hint other nations should send their missionaries with food and medicine here. Silvarien visits us with food and his magic orb.
:x

Aurora's herald just went 'We need this place cleaned up!' cause of all the food lying in the room, so bring a table please!

Carmell

As someone who has just come back to Achaea.  I like where this is going.  It was rather strange to wake up to messages about your order disbanding.  to find that all the sudden your bank account was sitting in Delos  When you tried to do Cwho or Owho to find out they didn't exist.  I have spent the last 3 or 4 days just trying to go through all the information on what has happened.  I think it's great that they have made these changes.  I know part of the reason i slept for so long was because of the stagnation that was happening with Shallam and I'm probably not the only one.  Now i have a reason to be back and to see where this leads.   I do think that it needs to be a mix of the older people as well as the newer people that have been here to help that.  I also know that we can't go back to the shallam of Old there were too many problems with that.  Oh and the whole I can fish at my subby house now is great.

Jonathin

I've said this about 20 times in two days and I'll say it again since the level of stagnation in the Refugees is climbing.

Achaeans in general would rather, it seems, let things die out between big events rather than doing a little work to keep things entertaining between them. Use little player-made events to fill the monotony between big admin-events. Things like taking a group of people out on a pirate-hunting-run and being very vocal about it (without being annoying), calling a group meeting to get the general feel for how people are doing or to disseminate information instead of doing it via post or one of the various channels. Events don't have to be these huge things that require administrative oversight, but use things to build the story up to the next big event. Find a way to tie them into the story without alluding to or trying to influence the (unknown) outcome. 

Some are more afraid than others to put themselves out there for other people to see, but if you're around friends, they'll overlook the faults and generally try to enjoy the experience rather than point out every single fault and heckle you from a distance. I've had my fair share of flops and successes.

One quote that immediately springs to mind was when I was the Warlock HL and our patron was inactive. "Mosr, everytime I think you run out of ideas, you pull something else from your hat." At that time, we had one of the highest active-member counts and some of the closest bonds as a House. I share this bit because (Mhaldor's 329874289374 year dormant divine excluded from this) having administrative oversight isn't always needed (like people seem to believe) to fill the boring hours. I spent hours, days even just coming up with ideas to keep people interested and it worked very well.

Tesha

I am probably really weird but I do not get bored with the refugees at all. There is always some heathen to damn or some shrine to break or someone that is willing to teach Tesha about some crazy ideology, but I might just be really lucky at finding people who are not afk. This seems like one of those situations where you make your own enjoyment, and I am not very good at being bored. I am really excited for the new city but I think that if you wait for it to happen so you have something to 'do', once it does happen you will have to wait for something else so you have something to 'do'. It is all about creating your own opportunities instead of waiting for other people to create them for you, I think.

Vayne

Tesha said:

I am probably really weird but I do not get bored with the refugees at all. There is always some heathen to damn or some shrine to break or someone that is willing to teach Tesha about some crazy ideology, but I might just be really lucky at finding people who are not afk. This seems like one of those situations where you make your own enjoyment, and I am not very good at being bored. I am really excited for the new city but I think that if you wait for it to happen so you have something to 'do', once it does happen you will have to wait for something else so you have something to 'do'. It is all about creating your own opportunities instead of waiting for other people to create them for you, I think.

I'm really getting the zealot vibe off you.

Tesha

I am not really sure what you mean by that, so I will take it as a compliment. :P

You probably mean something nice, so thank you  

Vayne

More or less, also your avatar makes me miss fencing.

Arador

Good gods is this thread still going? They are fine! The have a groovy pad and two gods to coddle them.

Yes, I am bitter.