Gem and Veil (and Hood) Changes

Arkantos

8000 for ship in a bottle 7000 for talisman

Tahquil

Dude...... wtf.

Arkantos

Got tired of losing auctions 

Tysandr

God.
Damn.
Son.

Rispok

19.10.15 Artefact Tradein

            | Class Artefacts:           Artefact Transfers and |

   19.10.14 < Serpent - Sylvan                            Gifts > 19.10.16

(see also HELP ARTEFACTS, HELP ARTEFACT TRANSFERS, and HELP CREDITS)

Artefacts may be traded in, by the owning adventurer only, in return for Bound Credits only. Since these are _already_ bound credits, there is no lesson bonus gained by trading in artefacts.

Artefacts are traded in at two-thirds value, based on the current price of the artefact. If it sells for 300, you'll get 200 in trade. If it sells for 400, you'll get 266 in trade. And so forth. There are exceptions for multi-priced artefacts and artefact level upgrades, detailed below.

artefact hood value

A Hood of the Sphinx currently costs 2000 credits. It will trade in for 1333 bound credits.


A possible way to mitigate the horde of people who are or are going to complain could be this. It's not full value, but it's half the loss of tradein.

Anaria

Penwize said:

The notion that the gem is now useless is silly.  Hiding you from thirdeye alone is a very useful feature, combined with hiding you in dangerous planes.  I admit the temporary hiding feature isn't all that useful, but the other two are still plenty worth it.

Like I said, I don't go to planes of open PK. A lot of people don't. Removing yourself from the who list/third eye for 10 minutes accomplishes what exactly? And why pay 400 credits for that over, for example, 100 credits for permanent ink and a chameleon tattoo? Or just a chameleon for brief concealment as applicable for 500 gold?

The problem with these changes is that they flip the reason why these artefacts were useful and who they were useful for. The veil used to be the ultimate defensive item. Now its the ultimate offensive item, because it lets you find your target anywhere. If you happen to be a player killer who is hunting bounties who hide on islands or planes that is super great. If on the other hand you bought the item to avoid being a constant target because you don't fight, you basically just got hosed for 2000 credits.

The gem is the same. If you hunt treacherous planes and/or you are looking to quickly ambush people for assassination, both of which center around PK, the change does not affect you much. If on the other hand you bought it for its defensive value of hiding you from that sort of thing, or for passive spying, or just letting you "turn off" the often toxic playerbase, then it is now totally useless to you.

Of the two, I'm actually more upset about the gem. The veil now has zero utility for me personally, but at least being able to farsee people on ships and islands is SOMETHING for my money. But I will literally never have a reason to use my gem again.

Aegoth

NGL, these tears about not being able to hide from the game with impunity anymore make this change all worth it

Skye

To be fair, my gem doesn't seem to have worked in a long time anyway. I have it on but people still arbitrarily send me tells as if I'm online. Even when I say nothing and am hiding on a ship

Klendathu

Skye said:

To be fair, my gem doesn't seem to have worked in a long time anyway. I have it on but people still arbitrarily send me tells as if I'm online. Even when I say nothing and am hiding on a ship

All your market ads kind of let people know you're around somewhere

Skye

I haven't done any market ads in weeks though which is what weirds me out. I'm like dead silent in the game sometimes, not even speaking on ooc clans or anything because I'm working on something or afk but people are still sending me tells. It's a bit freaky ngl.

ETA: My only conclusion is that they're just arbitrarily sending me tells like random shots in the dark, possibly on a timer to see if I'm around. Which I'm surprised they didn't eventually give up on when I didn't login for over a week around Christmas.

Klendathu

We want your cakes. Plenty enough salty water from the tears of dissatisfied veil and gem owners that you don't need to stay on a ship.

Halos

Veil 6 hours ago:


Veil now:

Yen said:

I like this very much.  I only ever got a veil so I could actually find people.  Now it finds people much much better than before!

Same. This is pretty amazing. I can see forever.

Penwize

Anaria said:

Removing yourself from the who list/third eye for 10 minutes accomplishes what exactly?

You've misunderstood.  Gem hides you from thirdeye permanently, everywhere, always.  The 10-minutes cooldown removes you from who lists entirely for the duration.  Those are two separate effects.

I still think hiding yourself from continent-wide fullsense (which is what thirdeye is) is pretty damn useful.

Sobriquet

Anaria said:

Penwize said:

The notion that the gem is now useless is silly.  Hiding you from thirdeye alone is a very useful feature, combined with hiding you in dangerous planes.  I admit the temporary hiding feature isn't all that useful, but the other two are still plenty worth it.

Like I said, I don't go to planes of open PK. A lot of people don't. Removing yourself from the who list/third eye for 10 minutes accomplishes what exactly? And why pay 400 credits for that over, for example, 100 credits for permanent ink and a chameleon tattoo? Or just a chameleon for brief concealment as applicable for 500 gold?

The problem with these changes is that they flip the reason why these artefacts were useful and who they were useful for. The veil used to be the ultimate defensive item. Now its the ultimate offensive item, because it lets you find your target anywhere. If you happen to be a player killer who is hunting bounties who hide on islands or planes that is super great. If on the other hand you bought the item to avoid being a constant target because you don't fight, you basically just got hosed for 2000 credits.

The gem is the same. If you hunt treacherous planes and/or you are looking to quickly ambush people for assassination, both of which center around PK, the change does not affect you much. If on the other hand you bought it for its defensive value of hiding you from that sort of thing, or for passive spying, or just letting you "turn off" the often toxic playerbase, then it is now totally useless to you.

Of the two, I'm actually more upset about the gem. The veil now has zero utility for me personally, but at least being able to farsee people on ships and islands is SOMETHING for my money. But I will literally never have a reason to use my gem again.

Why would you be a constant target if you don't fight? If you've got somebody after you it'll be because of an action you yourself have taken, not them. Contract, Bounty, Thieving, defiling.. that's all because of something you have done. Veil's as a defensive item in Achaea make no sense anymore and just diminished the multiplayer world in which we partake.

I'm loving this change, maybe a bit miffed they upped the price to farsee across planes, but that's just being picky. Our world just got a little more accessible and a lottle more populated. Bravo! 

Antonius

Anaria said:

Penwize said:

The notion that the gem is now useless is silly.  Hiding you from thirdeye alone is a very useful feature, combined with hiding you in dangerous planes.  I admit the temporary hiding feature isn't all that useful, but the other two are still plenty worth it.

Like I said, I don't go to planes of open PK. A lot of people don't. Removing yourself from the who list/third eye for 10 minutes accomplishes what exactly? And why pay 400 credits for that over, for example, 100 credits for permanent ink and a chameleon tattoo? Or just a chameleon for brief concealment as applicable for 500 gold?

The problem with these changes is that they flip the reason why these artefacts were useful and who they were useful for. The veil used to be the ultimate defensive item. Now its the ultimate offensive item, because it lets you find your target anywhere. If you happen to be a player killer who is hunting bounties who hide on islands or planes that is super great. If on the other hand you bought the item to avoid being a constant target because you don't fight, you basically just got hosed for 2000 credits.

The gem is the same. If you hunt treacherous planes and/or you are looking to quickly ambush people for assassination, both of which center around PK, the change does not affect you much. If on the other hand you bought it for its defensive value of hiding you from that sort of thing, or for passive spying, or just letting you "turn off" the often toxic playerbase, then it is now totally useless to you.

Of the two, I'm actually more upset about the gem. The veil now has zero utility for me personally, but at least being able to farsee people on ships and islands is SOMETHING for my money. But I will literally never have a reason to use my gem again.

The bolded is absolute nonsense. People who never participate in PK aren't constantly targetted to be killed (unless they do something else that makes them a target, like constantly insulting people or stealing). Veils aren't rare amongst people who participate in PK, so if they were going to randomly target people to kill them for no reason having a Veil wouldn't protect you from that anyway.

Gem trades in for 266 credits, Veil trades in for 1333 credits, so 1599 total. If you've had them for a reasonable amount of time then I'd say you've had your 801 credits worth from those items.

Antonius

Sobriquet said:

I'm loving this change, maybe a bit miffed they upped the price to farsee across planes, but that's just being picky. Our world just got a little more accessible and a lottle more populated. Bravo! 

I suspect they increased the price because of fullsense, which is absolutely huge. I am very excited to have access to that.

Antonius

Makarios said:

We'll think of options for scrying bowl to make it retain its value.

It would still be worth it to me if the scry was balanceless. Hint hint.

Solnir

Aegoth said:

NGL, these tears about not being able to hide from the game with impunity anymore make this change all worth it

Synbios

Antonius said:

Makarios said:

We'll think of options for scrying bowl to make it retain its value.

It would still be worth it to me if the scry was balanceless. Hint hint.

TRACE artie?

Khaibit

I am.. irritated by the change in the gem. 
I am not quite at table flip stage because I am waiting to see if they do infact add the chameleon ability to it instead. 
I bought the gem to hide when I am in stock rooms. Other than forgetting to turn it off now and then, that's the only time I used it, because it takes a while to restock tuns, even more so now they have upped the balance on refilling. I have more than one shops, I know this is not the normal expectation, but I also know I am not the only person with more than one shop and there are people with way more shops than me too. 
I am now easier to rob. I have shops in delos, which were and are always riskier to restock anyway, and now I have a very limited time in which to restock them before I am once again a giant target for anyone with a prism tattoo, especially if they hit when I am refilling tuns and can't actually move right away due to the realllly long balance. 
So I am irritated. 

Anaria

Sobriquet said:

If you've got somebody after you it'll be because of an action you yourself have taken, not them. Contract, Bounty, Thieving, defiling.. that's all because of something you have done. Veil's as a defensive item in Achaea make no sense anymore and just diminished the multiplayer world in which we partake.

Contract, bounty, thieving, defiling, and whatever else are all valid reasons to have someone after you. They are also valid parts of the game. The utility of the veil for someone who does not fight was that it significantly lessened the number of people who could come after you. It was useful for spying as well, particularly in conjunction with the functionality of the gem. Oh, I know, some of you have channels where you can just ask and someone with a veil would farsee your target and post their location by trigger over and over, but so what?

No one is entitled to a refund. We all know how credits and sales work on Achaea. But considering the magnitude of this change, not offering the full value for these items in bound credits for those wishing to trade them in feels like an extremely poor decision to me. 

And to reiterate - I LIKE this change, at least to veils. That does not alter the above statement.



 

Antonius

Khaibit said:

I am.. irritated by the change in the gem. 
I am not quite at table flip stage because I am waiting to see if they do infact add the chameleon ability to it instead. 
I bought the gem to hide when I am in stock rooms. Other than forgetting to turn it off now and then, that's the only time I used it, because it takes a while to restock tuns, even more so now they have upped the balance on refilling. I have more than one shops, I know this is not the normal expectation, but I also know I am not the only person with more than one shop and there are people with way more shops than me too. 
I am now easier to rob. I have shops in delos, which were and are always riskier to restock anyway, and now I have a very limited time in which to restock them before I am once again a giant target for anyone with a prism tattoo, especially if they hit when I am refilling tuns and can't actually move right away due to the realllly long balance. 
So I am irritated. 

Gem still permanently hides your location from WHO, so they'd have to farsee you to know you're in a stockroom rather than elsewhere (as opposed to just being able to spam WHO B with a script to identify people in stockrooms), and they could have done that before with old gem. Is the issue just that they now know you're definitely around and are (possibly) more likely to check if you're in a stockroom?

Khaibit

Antonius said:

Khaibit said:

I am.. irritated by the change in the gem. 
I am not quite at table flip stage because I am waiting to see if they do infact add the chameleon ability to it instead. 
I bought the gem to hide when I am in stock rooms. Other than forgetting to turn it off now and then, that's the only time I used it, because it takes a while to restock tuns, even more so now they have upped the balance on refilling. I have more than one shops, I know this is not the normal expectation, but I also know I am not the only person with more than one shop and there are people with way more shops than me too. 
I am now easier to rob. I have shops in delos, which were and are always riskier to restock anyway, and now I have a very limited time in which to restock them before I am once again a giant target for anyone with a prism tattoo, especially if they hit when I am refilling tuns and can't actually move right away due to the realllly long balance. 
So I am irritated. 

Gem still permanently hides your location from WHO, so they'd have to farsee you to know you're in a stockroom rather than elsewhere (as opposed to just being able to spam WHO B with a script to identify people in stockrooms), and they could have done that before with old gem. Is the issue just that they now know you're definitely around and are (possibly) more likely to check if you're in a stockroom?

I never hid myself other than in stock rooms, so if I don't show up as in a particular location, I am once again okay and not irritated as much. I'm not very often a quiet presence in the game anyway so people can probably tell when I am around.
However, yes, the fact my name is still visible is an irritant. As it does make me more of a target, people are more likely to farsee me if they can see me around and find out that I am tucked into a stockroom. 

Anaria

Sobriquet said:

Why would you be a constant target if you don't fight? If you've got somebody after you it'll be because of an action you yourself have taken, not them. Contract, Bounty, Thieving, defiling.. that's all because of something you have done.

Actually no, this statement right here needs one further comment and its too late to edit my other post.

Are you serious? Are we playing the same Achaea? This game is full of griefers, harassers and thieves. When I was low level, certain players who I shall not name used to follow me EVERYWHERE and steal from me constantly. There are still people who do that on a regular basis, even though the theft changes have made that less of an issue. And while it is a perfectly valid part of the game, most of those griefer types don't spend 2000 credits on a veil to help them do their thing. It is not the fault of the victim that these people exist.

I get it that you don't like the idea of people "hiding" from consequences. Fine and good. But there are a lots of antagonists on this game. Be real.

Dunn

Yeah I have no idea who you are. Most big PKers that hunt bounties, in my experience, have veils (or friends with veils) anyways. So you would have actually been experiencing this sort of thing if what you're saying held any water.

If anything, this is better because you can sense these people coming. And if you have a veil, you can sense them anywhere. So why is that bad?

Also, if you get robbed, tell someone. Circulate the name. I am always down to hunt a thief.

Melodie

Speaking as someone who is a Mhaldorian and didn't have a veil until the last six months or so...

I definitely don't get followed around and harassed constantly, nor has that ever really happened my entire Achaean career. Does it happen occasionally? Sure, and it was annoying as hell (hello, Bleak). But it's usually for something I did. It's pretty rare for people to do something to me out of the blue with absolutely no reasoning, even as someone with a "bad" (character) reputation. I definitely get into way more fights than you do, and I could not 1v1 my way out of a paper bag.

Not to try and sound mean or anything, but if it reached the level of actual harassment, you should issue. If people were just being dicks occasionally... everyone has that problem if they play long enough. If it's constant, you might need to self-reflect a bit.

Serin

I think they should offer refunds for a longer period of time but perhaps refund them as artefact discount vouchers so we would not artificially inflate the in-game economy but those who say purchased their veils or gems in the last six months would have the opportunity to replace the gem with another artefact at full price.  Going from 400cr down to 266cr makes me sad.

I am fairly newish back to the game and there may be issues with what I just said, but it is just my 2 cents.   

Sobriquet

Khaibit said:

I am.. irritated by the change in the gem. 
I am not quite at table flip stage because I am waiting to see if they do infact add the chameleon ability to it instead. 
I bought the gem to hide when I am in stock rooms. Other than forgetting to turn it off now and then, that's the only time I used it, because it takes a while to restock tuns, even more so now they have upped the balance on refilling. I have more than one shops, I know this is not the normal expectation, but I also know I am not the only person with more than one shop and there are people with way more shops than me too. 
I am now easier to rob. I have shops in delos, which were and are always riskier to restock anyway, and now I have a very limited time in which to restock them before I am once again a giant target for anyone with a prism tattoo, especially if they hit when I am refilling tuns and can't actually move right away due to the realllly long balance. 
So I am irritated. 

This is a valid concern. I'd not have any problem with Gem use being on full time in stockrooms the same way it is in Annwyn

Sobriquet

Anaria said:

Sobriquet said:

Why would you be a constant target if you don't fight? If you've got somebody after you it'll be because of an action you yourself have taken, not them. Contract, Bounty, Thieving, defiling.. that's all because of something you have done.

Actually no, this statement right here needs one further comment and its too late to edit my other post.

Are you serious? Are we playing the same Achaea? This game is full of griefers, harassers and thieves. When I was low level, certain players who I shall not name used to follow me EVERYWHERE and steal from me constantly. There are still people who do that on a regular basis, even though the theft changes have made that less of an issue. And while it is a perfectly valid part of the game, most of those griefer types don't spend 2000 credits on a veil to help them do their thing. It is not the fault of the victim that these people exist.

I get it that you don't like the idea of people "hiding" from consequences. Fine and good. But there are a lots of antagonists on this game. Be real.

I'll address this because I think you couldn't be more wrong. Over the past 2ys since I have been active in playing again I've not had ONE attack on me that wasn't justified by an action on my part. I also can't think of any instance in the past 10 years where that has happened outside of Cain being Cain, I've also not had one theft attempt on me since the changes.

This game is not FULL of "griefers, harassers and thieves"  by any stretch of the imagination. There may be one or two active thieves out there but PK now is much more player driven and grief resistant that it used to be. By the Country Mile and then some. 

Tiamat

In the past from what I remember, all changes in artifact prices reflected with tradin value. For example the shield and diadem. What is the point of not doing it this time?