Gem and Veil (and Hood) Changes

Atalkez

Disclaimer:

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Achaea is a functioning world, and while we guarantee you will not lose any of

the credits you buy, no such guarantee can be provided for what you purchase

with the credits themselves. Naturally, we wouldn't be in business very long if

this happened frequently, but as it is a world, your actions have consequences,

and the actions of others can result in consequences for you. It's this

dynamism in the nature of the world that people enjoy about Achaea. Thus, it is

possible that the perceived or real value of the things you purchase with

credits, or your ability to use those things, may both rise and decline during

the course of play.

Taryius

I think its pretty generous that IRE gives us a 2/3rd refund option on every single purchase we make. Not a lot of other places give that sort of reusability for purchases. And that tradein option works no matter how old the artefact

Makarios

Just to chip in here.

We do not like changing artefacts for all the reasons @Ismay is stating. Its very important to us that you guys feel pretty confident you're getting what you're paying for - I think how long this change has taken to happen is a sign of that. An artefact very much has to be causing quantifiable damage to the game for us to consider these kind of actions, and that doesn't happen often.

Corentin

Ismay said:

To be honest, I strongly feel that everyone who has a veil should be given the option for a full refund regardless of how long they have had it. Just over 30 days is considered full use for an item that costs nearly $600? That is a lot extreme even for IRE. While that clause is indeed clearly stated, something this costly leaves a terrible taste in the mouths of some veil owners who no longer want to keep them.

Sorry, but this isn't some small $20-$100 item here.

These players can still trade in the item for 2/3 of its value, so I don't see what the problem is here. The administration doesn't have to even do that. If you buy any real world item and after a couple of years it needs to be replaced or no longer fulfills the original purpose, you can't give it back and get 2/3 the value for it. 

Devran

So Marks who have contracts should be happy about this right? I always see marks saying that they have trouble completing contracts which, unfortunately, has a negative effect of their status and stuff.
@Atalkez I require more confirmation that you love this change.

Minifie

Makarios said:

Just to chip in here.

We do not like changing artefacts for all the reasons @Ismay is stating. Its very important to us that you guys feel pretty confident you're getting what you're paying for - I think how long this change has taken to happen is a sign of that. An artefact very much has to be causing quantifiable damage to the game for us to consider these kind of actions, and that doesn't happen often.

perhaps a 14 day "grace" period where people can trade it in for 2k bound and buy it for 2k bound, then afterwards you are SoL. Understandably some people may just take the path of refunding and buying later when they bought it 5 years ago though, but in the short term it'd just be a gesture of good will?

Kyrra

Or people can just pay an extra 500 credits.

They could have just deleted veils and implemented a new item with new functionality that would have required everyone to buy it. Instead they changed existing veils and that is fantastic for the people that already have one.

There's nothing wrong with having to save a little bit longer for something you want.

Dunn

Veil is amazing for marks and bounty hunters now, @Devran. Can confirm.

Minifie

There's also nothing wrong with showing a concession of good will, I have not a veil nor the credits to buy one, so this change is 0 impact on me, but does impact others, which is understandably a bit annoying, as much as I like the new veils.

Tahquil

I'll rephrase. We are not entitled to a refund, but in the past full refunds have been given out for less.

Jacen

As someone who purchased his veil a few years ago, I love the changes. If I had purchased it 6 months ago, I would be pissed. Given the price point of the veil, I don't think its unreasonable for anyone who purchased within the last few years to be pissed. 

Good on the team for giving veils fullsense though. As someone who boughtt a veil explicitly for raid defense, at a time when my city had no veils, I would have been pretty pissed if that type of usage was taken away.

Telendrieth

On one hand, I really like having access to fullsense while not my monk. On the other hand AS my monk I'm like "Get yer own skills, we're not serpents!"

Super neat change though. I think ultimately it'll be the better move for the game going forward. And I do have faith in them smoothing out the gem/scrying bowl a bit more. 

-wanders off to apply this power to googly-eye goggles of all knowing omniscience-

Sena

I can't actually think of (or find from some quick announce searching) another example of an artefact that was significantly changed without a full refund to all owners, no time limit. Even the change to Whip of Taming, which was called a "bug fix" and had no impact on the nominal "actual purpose" of the artefact, came with full refunds for anyone who wanted one.

Trey

Not that it's super relevant @Makarios @Nicola, but what was done to Profit's veil to make it a "level 2", and will combining veils and shrouds work similarly to the same effect?

Aralaya

An I the only one more excited about the gem changes? The game looks so much more populated now

Kiet

I'm holding off on opinion about gem changes until we know for sure if we'll get some kind of chameleon implementation, something for phase, or a cost decrease!

Achilles

Overall I'm thrilled about the veil changes and if that's all we get today I would be happy.  Also I like how post-gem the game feels more lively without all the names being hidden on QW.  I do agree that the gem owners should get some kind of additional bonus (a free perma-like chameleon tattoo sounds pretty good) since its pretty useless now, I'm leaning towards just trading it in.

Some other suggestions:
Non decay concealment orb (shimmering orb) like power if dropped, can only be picked up by the owner, resets every hour
Track concealment (like the silent predator trait), lasts for 5 seconds, 10 minute cooldown
One deception brew (random chameleon) per hour

Atalkez

I suggested adding anti-mindnet to it for the 10m duration that it's active.

Side effect of veil change, is that the only silent infiltration possible atm is Serpent with phase/evade passed area boundary.

Krypton

Another (perhaps not intended) Veil bonus:

You can use shortened names for FARSEE again

Anaria

10 minutes worth of concealment is pointless. I agree with Kiet that the gem needs to hide you from other serpents while phased at least, and it SHOULD, because you are considered to be "on another plane" while phased for the purposes of using any other viewing artefact, such as a greater viewing glass for example. As someone who never visits "treacherous planes", my gem is now completely useless to me in its current form.

I have extremely mixed feelings about the veil change. This was the biggest thing I ever bought on Achaea. I sure as heck didn't pay 2000 credits for fullsense. The ability to farsee anywhere, even to islands and ships through commscreen, actually seems way over powered... although for 2500 credits maybe not. Either way, it isn't what I paid for, and I'm feeling burned. Maybe it will turn out to be a better item in the long run, maybe not, I don't know. It is a totally different functionality for a totally different style of play, which is why the option to be refunded not being offered makes this change taste so bitter. 

I agree that these changes are better for Achaea. I don't like the way they were implemented. 

Penwize

The notion that the gem is now useless is silly.  Hiding you from thirdeye alone is a very useful feature, combined with hiding you in dangerous planes.  I admit the temporary hiding feature isn't all that useful, but the other two are still plenty worth it.

Tysandr

Makarios said:

Just to chip in here.

We do not like changing artefacts for all the reasons @Ismay is stating. Its very important to us that you guys feel pretty confident you're getting what you're paying for - I think how long this change has taken to happen is a sign of that. An artefact very much has to be causing quantifiable damage to the game for us to consider these kind of actions, and that doesn't happen often.

I think this is a very measured change, and for that, I am deeply grateful. I think disgruntlement was inevitable but having more people excited than disappointed is a great outcome.

   / 

Atalkez

Half of my artie mechanic lobbying is now completed.

Buckawns, we comin for dat ass next

Xaden

I'm torn. I've always hated veils. I very much agree that the ability to hide from consequences was bullshit and hated that for 600bucks people could become untouchable for a large proportion of the playerbase.

However, due to the fact that I found myself playing when very few people in Targ (if any) had veils I went and saved for about 10RL weeks to buy one with the express purpose of being able to locate people with veils. I bought my veil on Dec. 5th/6th.

With the changes: I no longer need a veil to sense these people and thus it no longer fills the need that I paid for.

And the secondary benefit of my veil hiding me from the unwashed masses is now also gone.

Fullsense is cool! Super handy! But I'm not sure that it makes me happy about the change. I'd probably prefer if they just deleted/refunded. I dunno. Still assessing my opinion on it I guess.

Tysandr

Xaden said:

I'm torn. I've always hated veils. I very much agree that the ability to hide from consequences was bullshit and hated that for 600bucks people could become untouchable for a large proportion of the playerbase.

However, due to the fact that I found myself playing when very few people in Targ (if any) had veils I went and saved for about 10RL weeks to buy one with the express purpose of being able to locate people with veils. I bought my veil on Dec. 5th/6th.

With the changes: I no longer need a veil to sense these people and thus it no longer fills the need that I paid for.

And the secondary benefit of my veil hiding me from the unwashed masses is now also gone.

Fullsense is cool! Super handy! But I'm not sure that it makes me happy about the change. I'd probably prefer if they just deleted/refunded. I dunno. Still assessing my opinion on it I guess.

That timing hurts

Xaden

Should add; I'm by no means pissed off. It's fucking awesome that the admins listen to the playerbase and are proactive in addressing issues that we perceive. I mean they could just be like 'lol, no, mo dolla plz'. 

So, not angry, even a little. Torn between excitement and disappointment maybe?

Lucianus

Feeling very nostalgic seeing everyone on WHO again. That same lively feeling when I was a starry-eyed IRE noob is coming back. I think it is a good change and necessary change for the game.

Arkantos

Thank god this came before the auctions ended.  I was about to shell out cash for about 15000 credits.  Tradein it is.

To be clear, not really mad about the changes. But I justified the purchase of the veil and gem for precisely the reason people probably dislike them. I wanted to be really hard to locate. The current changes make those items worthless to me especially as a monk.

That said, it also makes buying anything from Achaea an even worse investment, because that's alot of money to put out for something that has no real security to it.

Kiet

Penwize said:

The notion that the gem is now useless is silly.  Hiding you from thirdeye alone is a very useful feature, combined with hiding you in dangerous planes.  I admit the temporary hiding feature isn't all that useful, but the other two are still plenty worth it.

Hiding from thirdeye is (mildly, let's not overstate it) useful, sure, but it's a fraction of the usefulness the gem had before. Hiding in Annwyn is useful, too, sure, but most people are never going to use it and those that do will only use it a fraction of the time.

Veil got a new function that is arguably stronger than the old one, gem just got straight nerf with nothing to compensate at all and without even adjusting the cost. Gem is literally the same functionality as before except 1/6 as good.

Tysandr

Arkantos said:

Thank god this came before the auctions ended.  I was about to shell out cash for about 15000 credits.  Tradein it is.

To be clear, not really mad about the changes. But I justified the purchase of the veil and gem for precisely the reason people probably dislike them. I wanted to be really hard to locate. The current changes make those items worthless to me especially as a monk.

That said, it also makes buying anything from Achaea an even worse investment, because that's alot of money to put out for something that has no real security to it.

What are you bidding on? Not gonna bid on that