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  • MathildaMathilda
    Penwize said:
    Mathilda said:
    It's entirely possible to embrace the Darkness theme and ideology without kowtowing to Twilight. But I suppose that involves people actually knowing the Darkness ethos...
    No ... no. No.  No no no.

    This sort of thinking is what caused Shallam to fall apart, and what caused Eleusis to derail.  No, you can't embrace a god's theme, ideology or realm without embracing that god.  You can't tell a god that you know that god's realm better than they do.  A god's say about their realm is absolute, because it's literally their thing. 

    Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here, no.  Please don't think this way, and please don't try to approach Achaea this way.  It makes terrible sense in-character to have a mortal try to disagree with a god on their own realm, unless you're trying to roleplay an idiot.
     I don't disagree, but Hashan's majority does. I thought a nice compromise would be better, though :D.
     <3 
  • AtalkezAtalkez
    edited October 2017
    Calira said:
    but I don't think that the Targossians claiming that they know exactly what Hashan needs know what they're talking about.
    This is pretty insulting, considering the two main people that was directed at are: a former Hashani ruling council member, and someone that has played at an extremely high level for quite a long time. I don't claim to know everything, far from it, but I do know that my opinion isn't based on some bullshit. I've had conversations with people who have joined, and left, Hashan. I've given them opportunity to sway me to join them, and there's quite frankly no reason to do so. Evidence? The fact that they've never retained any single "big name" player that they've had. Kasa is about it, and he's teetered plenty of times.

    It's not a real faction as compared to the others, please refute that statement. Mhaldor = Evil, Cyrene = Peace, Targossas = Good, Ashtan = Chaos - wtf is Hashan? kind of science, kind of Twilight, a whole lot of nothing very compelling. It's a real faction, because it has a name and newbies can join. Other than that? It's a waste of space, as currently constituted. 

    I will agree, though, that it isn't an easy fix - the same way fixing Ashtan isn't an easy fix. It will never even make progress, though, if you consistently turn your nose at any attempts to do so.




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • CaliraCalira
    edited October 2017
    Atalkez said:
    stuff
    I already apologized for offending you, but my point stands and I stand by it - I think you and @Mathilda are simply wrong, and I'm sorry that you take umbrage with that. Hashan as it exists can't be summarized in one neat word, as much as I would love to be able to answer 'Darkness'. The reason that I in particular was drawn to Hashan is that it offers a great deal of in-character freedom. Hashani characters can practice or study anything they want, and as long as it brings no harm to Hashan then you'll be left alone. Out of character, the appeal is similar to Cyrene in a lot of ways, but with less restrictions and we actually get raided and occasionally even raid back. I'm also sorry that you feel it's a waste of space, but frankly, I have no obligation to agree with that opinion just because you've played the game for a long time.
  • AtalkezAtalkez
    Then say "I think you're wrong" not "I don't think you know what you're talking about" - those are very different statements. We have a difference of opinion, and please believe I'm not upset at all with what you said, merely pointing out that it was a dismissive statement that had no merit in ever being said. Moving on!

    Never asked for you to agree with anything I say, nor should you if you disagree. I'm giving my opinion, which is based in experience/history/time/people. You also have one that is based on your experiences/history/time/people - and that's fine.

    Thank you for admitting that it's Cyrene-lite with a little PK sprinkled in here and there.




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • MathildaMathilda
    edited October 2017
    I suppose we can agree to disagree, then! Hashan wants to be Cyrene except pro-combat and not, specifically, Darkness/Night.

    next
     <3 
  • ReysonReyson
    Before you lay that horse to rest:

    @Kasa, c'mere bby. We treat u gud, promise. They don't deserve you. 
  • AegothAegoth
    What are you guys even talking about? What's Hashan? This is an Achaea forum. Please stay on topic
  • KoganKogan
    Mathilda said:
    I suppose we can agree to disagree, then! Hashan wants to be Cyrene except pro-combat and not, specifically, Darkness/Night.

    next
    Those CTF scores though. In all seriousness... I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about Hashan, and the fact that most here don't may or may not be a problem? I mean if its a goal for them not to know then its factional RP. If its not a goal and nobody knows what the hell is going on or what goals are then thats something else entirely. I felt like for a while Hashan was doing very well, and may still be. I've talked to a few people frustrated there. Not frustrated to the point of wanting to leave or trash talking the city, but more just frustrated with the current state of affairs. Which once again I can't really speak on because I have no clue what's going on in Hashan. I have asked though! Apparently not the right people.
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, Florida
    Reyson said:
    Before you lay that horse to rest:

    @Kasa, c'mere bby. We treat u gud, promise. They don't deserve you. 
    We got you a shirt and everything, man.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • RangorRangor
    Farrah said:
    Wrong thread, @Rangor
    So weird. Cell phone mishap probably.
    image
  • TysandrTysandr
    Atalkez said:
    ...you got the entire Imperian crew of retirement (the same crew that Targossas now has - a city with a single identity)...

    Ey.
    "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."

  • KietKiet
    "Do whatever you want" isn't a theme, and it's already basically covered by Cyrene and Ashtan. You'll notice, too, that Ashtan isn't doing so hot either. There's only room for one 'do whatever you want' city in Achaea.
  • HataruHataru Midwest USA
    Man, I'm so glad I got out of Hashan before it told Twilight to screw off :/ even though even that far back (uhhhhh 12-12.5 years ago?) there was some early rumblings of it (but at least then it was in favour of the Triumvarate not like just lolbyetwilight as it kinda tends to read now) - its just super sad to see what's become of Hashan and its possibilities from back when it was founded and had a strong depth to it versus the way it looks on the world stage these days.
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Melodie says, "Get rekt scrubbbbb."
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): You say, "Scrubbbssss."
    (Mhaldor's Next Top Model): Trey says, "Austere was hangin' out the passenger side of his best friend's ride, apparently."
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the Storm
    edited October 2017
    Kiet said:
    "Do whatever you want" isn't a theme, and it's already basically covered by Cyrene and Ashtan. You'll notice, too, that Ashtan isn't doing so hot either. There's only room for one 'do whatever you want' city in Achaea.
    Ashtan also hasn't been a "do whatever you want" city for quite some time, and has more Penwizes than every other city put together.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • DominiusDominius
    Ok, so I have been rogue for a while now, not being happy with the things are run is cities and houses to be honest, finding it really hard to establish a role for myself especially since I can't keep regular playing hours and am on a very different time zone from most others. I was kind of hoping to see some insight to the different cities and how satisfied people were in them and how it affected their fun factor in game. Other than having people around to rune, able to get some cheaper credits off of city sales and joining in city events and raids I don't really see a closed community of people who share the same ambition, beliefs and goals yet.. but please correct me if I'm wrong. And what's the most influence a city can really get in terms of power in all of Sapience? Seems very limited to me..
  • KietKiet
    I mean, cities are exactly that: a community of people who share the same beliefs and overarching goals. Barring the cities that are struggling with even having an identity, that applies to all of them.

    You're right that there's no real way to affect the world in achaea except for rare events like bringing babel back (and that wasn't really a city, more a subsection of one).
  • XadenXaden
    Dominius said:
    Other than having people around to rune, able to get some cheaper credits off of city sales and joining in city events and raids I don't really see a closed community of people who share the same ambition, beliefs and goals yet.. but please correct me if I'm wrong.
    We haven't really talked in depth about Targ / Mhaldor because the thread kinda turned into a bitch-fest about the cities that you can't say that about.

    But both of those cities are very much driven by a single set of beliefs and goals and people who tend not to be working in concert with those goals tend to find themselves on the outside looking in.
         He is a coward who has to bring two friends as backup to jump people hunting.

  • LintonLinton
    Cyrene isn't playing the game right. Same for Hashan. The majority of Eleusis too who just wants to be defenders. Add to the list the rogues of the realms and more than half the game population ain't playing the game right in rejecting factional gameplay.

    How about we look at that instead. Factional gameplay 'done right' in Achaea is basically a religious war. Not everyone wants to play in a religious environment. It is just like how the priest class isn't for everyone, and being a citizen(adventurer not lay denizen) true to a divine-ruled city means everyone there is basically a priest or paladin of the ruling divine. Alot of people don't want to roleplay that, not as a non-combatant even. It does not make them anti-conflict or anti-pk or anti-gods or anti-the-right-thing-way-to-be.

    Note that Achaea isn't always the way it is now. Alot of the changes from the renaissance brought about the current situation. Sure the people in factional cities are happy about the changes. But maybe it is only now the side effects are showing.
  • MathildaMathilda
    Your're wrong.
     <3 
  • KietKiet
    Achaea's always had this issue, though, it was just better masked when we had more people and laxer RP.
  • VenderVender
    personally i believe the biggest problem with Hashan's player culture is their unwillingness to risk death. this stifles their ability to do things and creates uneasinesss and tension between the members as you don't feel like your allies are actually your allies, just selfish people looking out for themselves.

    one specific example is drefan. after targossias interrupted ashtan's raid on hashan, kasa decided to attack us. they ended up dying and drefan was so upset that he started calling kasa a bad leader to targossians and feeding us kasa's plans and strategy. kasa was informed of this betrayal yet i have yet to see any real consequences for drefan.

    i know that i would not want to be in the same organization with people i can't trust.
    spread positivity
  • NazihkNazihk
    I can agree on the fear of death thing.

    I know that when I was Hashanite, I ran into a lot of problems with people who got super pissy attitudes and refused to go back out after any kind of loss. Not only does this cripple their ability to improve as a fighter, it's super disheartening to the rest of their team and makes for a pretty terrible experience all around.

    The truth is that if you won't lose you can't win. 


  • SolnirSolnir
    Nazihk said:
    I can agree on the fear of death thing.

    I know that when I was Hashanite, I ran into a lot of problems with people who got super pissy attitudes and refused to go back out after any kind of loss. Not only does this cripple their ability to improve as a fighter, it's super disheartening to the rest of their team and makes for a pretty terrible experience all around.

    The truth is that if you won't lose you can't win. 



    This was my exact experience in Hashan, and the reason I left.
  • VenderVender
    edited October 2017
    if your organization drives fighters out then your faction will be perceived as non-existent because whether or not fighters are "worth" more than non-combatants, fighters have the most presence in the world from outsiders who are looking in. there's nothing wrong with inward type activity but if that is all you have then you should find a way to balance the act or suffer decline.
    spread positivity
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    Ahem...a bit late to the Hashan debate, but I thought I should chip in on it.

    I've been with Hashan (on and off at times) for most of my Achaean gaming life...which is about 10 years now. I've seen so many versions of it... Dark Hashan, Moon Hashan, Neutral Hashan, Evil-influenced Hashan (I miss you Necromancy...), Death Hashan (so much drama...), Moon again Hashan, and now the current version.


    I'm not going to be mean (too much..) and rant about the drama this city goes through and the constant identity issues.

    I will say this though, Hashan's relationship to Darkness has always felt like a soap opera couple....it's like it's always almost there....they seem happy...they are finally going to live happily ever after....then some random drama comes flying in out of no where, usually from her ex-ex-husband's best friend's son-husband, and suddenly shit starts flying and they become estranged...only to once again after 50 episodes begin to grow close again. (Too much Bold and the Beautiful...)

    Hashan main issue has always stemmed from the different perspectives and directions its citizens have had concerning Hashan itself. This always ends in clashes, politics, strife, and power plays. The ambiguity is, in my opinion, the real fault.


    I know some people will swear by Hashan's identity being very clear and its citizens knowing it fully...but frankly I think we all know that isnt true, else this issue wouldnt keep popping up with citizens leaving. I recall a very recent post placed up by a citizen attempting to explain what Hashan is and its relation to darkness but at the same time its distance from HIm...and I couldnt help but laugh. Why this constant determination to remain so obscure? I dont know.

    -----

    Anywho, enough with that, some things I love about Hashan:
    - It really is built on secrets...and this may be one of the biggest issues to newcomers. It takes quite some research to begin to understand the depths of Hashan's mystery, from its 4 ports, to its connection to the spirit world, to the 'prison' beneath, to the ancient pact made with Twilight to protect it, on and on.

    - Hashan's potential for ritualism is insane, i'd even say rivaling the occult. Few knew of the capability for massive rituals in Hashan...which is sadly because of the lack of research. Once upon a time, the spiritwalkers taught its members the different types of rituals out there and how to make use of rituals in Hashan, it was a lot of fun.

    - Hashan (for the most part) has a near obsession with discovery and knowledge. It waxes and wanes at times but it is still prevalent.

    - Hashan has a secret 'guild' that is still part of its city: The Thieves guild. They even have a guildhall beneath the city in the sewers. This is a remnant to when the Serpents of old would make a home in Hashan.

    - Hashan is technically imbued with the divine power of 3 gods, made prevalent in the Fontis: Twilight, Ourania and Valnurana.

    - Hashan's 'Old Quarters' are the location of the original part of Hashan before it became a large city. You get to see the old and the new with this relation.

    - Hashan has lovely secret alcoves around the city (used to be more), I find this as a refreshing reminder of the mystery hidden within it.




    And that's all. Enjoy


  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo
    Personally, I will always find non-factional Divines such as Aegis and Scarlatti much more appealing than factional ones like Deucalion and Sartan. Hence, to me, no matter their drama, cities that allow for many different Divines as opposed to just one or two will always be more interesting to me.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • CooperCooper
    city patron Sockeater

  • ReysonReyson
    edited October 2017
    Eater of Socks! D:

    This will be a long war.
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