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  • SalisaSalisa
    Dominius said:
    So what makes your city great? What do you absolutely love or hate about it? Why should people come or why you would never walk around and try to find people to join, lets hear it! Rogue? Cool too. Lets hear why being Rogue is so awesome!
    Can we get some more of this? I feel like Cyrene has been covered at length. And yeah, why is rogue so awesome?
  • TorinnTorinn
    edited October 2017
    I love the aesthetic and feeling of being a righteous holy warrior of light and fire.  Casting evildoers into eternal damnation.  Shouting from the hilltops the glorious word of the divine.  Follow or perish
    Deucalion says, "Torinn is quite nice."
  • LaedhaLaedha
    Not wanting to pk is not the same thing as wanting to avoid all consequences, and it's not bad role play. It's a city mostly run by professional artists and explorers and scholars, of course most of them don't want to be bothered with constant invasions. Many people in Cyrene don't like combat and don't want to engage in it, so our city laws are set up to discourage people from starting conflicts that will end up in raids. That Cyrenian ethos of Cyrene first, protect the homeland by taking the high ground, is pretty heavily role played. We want to be Switzerland, where nobody wants to be enemied because they like the shopping and the benefit of having that neutral ground. But it's not free--Cyrenians are limited in what they can do and who they can associate with. You can't be a thief or a pirate or participate in raids because those things drag citymates into your messes. That's the trade off. 

    Some people take it too far but that happens everywhere. When people do think they can incite a conflict and then run away without being held accountable, they should get thumped. But Cyrene's concept isn't reliant on ooc mechanics any more than raiding is--like people choosing a raid target that's evenly matched for ooc considerations. We all choose our cities and roles based on what types of rp and behavior will be fun for us. 


  • KayeilKayeil Washington State
    Laedha said:
    Not wanting to pk is not the same thing as wanting to avoid all consequences, and it's not bad role play. It's a city mostly run by professional artists and explorers and scholars, of course most of them don't want to be bothered with constant invasions. Many people in Cyrene don't like combat and don't want to engage in it, so our city laws are set up to discourage people from starting conflicts that will end up in raids. That Cyrenian ethos of Cyrene first, protect the homeland by taking the high ground, is pretty heavily role played. We want to be Switzerland, where nobody wants to be enemied because they like the shopping and the benefit of having that neutral ground. But it's not free--Cyrenians are limited in what they can do and who they can associate with. You can't be a thief or a pirate or participate in raids because those things drag citymates into your messes. That's the trade off. 

    Some people take it too far but that happens everywhere. When people do think they can incite a conflict and then run away without being held accountable, they should get thumped. But Cyrene's concept isn't reliant on ooc mechanics any more than raiding is--like people choosing a raid target that's evenly matched for ooc considerations. We all choose our cities and roles based on what types of rp and behavior will be fun for us. 


    I think HELP CYRENE really sums up what the city is about and is very clear on Cyrene's xenophobic tendencies, which supports what you're saying and the city's general response to wars and raiding.

    With an ethos founded solidly in decency and rule of law, citizens espouse the
    consideration of their peers and exercise tolerance for individual pursuits, as
    long as the community is not threatened. Ever mindful of her roots as a refuge
    for those escaping the wars between Ashtan and ancient Shallam, Cyrene remains
    fiercely independent and withdrawn from many of the conflicts that occur beyond
    her walls. With more than just a touch of xenophobia, Cyrene places her own
    interests first in all things, ensuring the stability and continued freedom of
    her citizens, her ideals, and her ancient, founding spirit. Not easily
    provoked, when Cyrene rises to a challenge and defends against her foes, she
    does so as a united and indomitable force.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • SkyeSkye The Duchess Bellatere
    Being rogue is the best because I don't have to jump through hoops for anyone or do silly House requirements >_>


  • MathildaMathilda
    My issue with Hashan is that it kind of wants to be Night/Dark but completely reject any further integration with Twilight. It's intentionally shooting itself in the foot.
     <3 
  • CaliraCalira
    Mathilda said:
    My issue with Hashan is that it kind of wants to be Night/Dark but completely reject any further integration with Twilight. It's intentionally shooting itself in the foot.
    Hashan isn't a single entity on that front. There are definitely people who, at least in-character, wish to be vigilant against the influence of the Darkwalkers, which is fine. There are also people who would gladly be puppets dancing along to Lord Twilight's tune, even if they're not part of His Order. There should be room in Hashan for both, as the existence of each role makes the other one more interesting.
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    Mathilda said:
    My issue with Hashan is that it kind of wants to be Night/Dark but completely reject any further integration with Twilight. It's intentionally shooting itself in the foot.
    No, you all shot us in the foot by trying to make grand sweeping changes with controversial people as figureheads and then shunted blame to the worst person possible.
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • MathildaMathilda
    Sure, we wanted to integrate the city with the order more. With the introduction of crusades and sovereignty and the revamp of shrines and miracles, in general, it was the smart thing to do (still is). This is in addition to the general trend towards more factionalized cities all over Achaea.

    Hashan's majority rejected this push, which is fine if they are just content with becoming Cyrene #2. But as a result, Hashan has also lost a couple of players like Karren and Aesgar because of this fractured identity and its tendency to pull Hashan into complacency and inertness. You can't fight or advocate for an ideology that does not really exist, after all.

    I guess this is why Hashan has lost out on a lot of opportunities to have a factional class; Shaman, Alchemist, and Depthswalker come to mind. The admins are already disinclined to providing special classes for a limited section of the playerbase, much more so if that section doesn't actually want to be a real faction in the first place.
     <3 
  • ArmaliArmali
    Hashan never had an opportunity to have a factional class. No one has in the modern era. Were you even playing Achaea when Shaman and Alchemist were released?
  • CaliraCalira
    Even if Hashan had all of its affairs together - and I'm willing to grant that it does not - Hashan never had a shot at having Alchemist or Depthswalker as a factional class. I can't really speak for Shaman as that was before my time.
  • MathildaMathilda
    It's a sort of chicken-and-the-egg thing. Hashan is never going to have a factional class because it isn't actually a faction.

    Classes like Alchemist and Depthswalker have a lot of overlap with Darkie themes that have already existed. Shaman, of course, started in Hashan. I think it's fair to say that, had Hashan been more Darkness-y and Night-ish, then there would have been at least a possiblity that the storylines for those classes would have been molded to be Hashan's class.

    I recall a long thread when Depthswalker was released, and an intense discussion regarding this same issue. It's an interesting read!
     <3 
  • ArmaliArmali
    And I recall administration saying that they dislike factional classes and they would have no chance in hell of ever releasing new factional classes.

    Stop trying to push a false narrative of Hashan 'failing' to get a factional class. There haven't been any plans to ever give it a factional, whether or not it deserved it or had its shit together. Factionals are relics of a way older era.
  • CooperCooper
    Alchemist and DW have nothing to do with a "Dark" theme, anyway. 

  • MathildaMathilda
    edited October 2017
    Damn, maybe we can reverse the factionalisation thing, then. I would love my Druidy goodness back :(

    Anyway, class or no class, the fact remains that Hashan, at the moment, is far from being a real faction nor even a force to be considered.
     <3 
  • AtalkezAtalkez
    edited October 2017
    Hashan’s reluctance to embrace a single identity is absolutely why it’s never kept any of the big people it had. Mizik started there, Penwize started there, you got the entire Imperian crew of retirement (the same crew that Targossas now has - a city with a single identity). I would have seriously entertained it if it had a clear defined stance on the world stage. To say that it’s split image is okay, is absolutely perpetuating the same problems that it’s had the last several years.

    Hashan will never be a power in any kind of legitimate capacity while it continues to refuse to mold itself into a City state with a clearly defined ethos and goal. 

    Edit: We know what Targossas, Ashtan, Mhaldor, Cyrene and Eleusis all stand for. What does Hashan stand for? I don’t even know and I’ve played several years. 




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo
    @Mathilda You are pulling shit out of your proverbial behind. It was made explicitly clear by the admins in the very thread you allude to that while some people felt very strongly about it it, Depthswalker was -never- meant as a factional class because theirs is not a power based around any Divine, not Twilight, not any Other. 

    As for alchemist, if you knew about the introduction event for alchemists, you'd know implying alchemist were at any point intended as factional is amusing at best and very misleading at worst. Four cities were given the choice to have them, all at the same time. They were never meant as factional either. 


    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • FrederichFrederich
    10/10 would trade Alchemist for Forestrals.
  • MathildaMathilda
    @Shirszae And as I've said, class or no class, Hashan's core issue is that it is still not an actual faction.
     <3 
  • ArmaliArmali
    @Mathilda That doesn't really excuse that you tried to make up shit first and then had to back up. Why didn't you just NOT make up shit in the first place?
  • MathildaMathilda
    @Armali I was trying to illustrate that Hashan is never getting the perks of actual factions because it is, itself, not a faction. But I guess we can focus on one last anecdotal paragraph instead of Hashan's identity crisis...
     <3 
  • CaliraCalira
    Hashan's identity isn't perfect as it is, but I don't think that the Targossians claiming that they know exactly what Hashan needs know what they're talking about. Hashan should not become a Twilight-focused city in the same way that Targossas is a Bloodsworn-focused city or Mhaldor is a Sartan-focused one. Firstly, because the population by and large does not want that. Secondly, because Targossas and Mhaldor already exist, and Hashan becoming 'dark Targ' isn't going to bring anything unique to the game.
  • AtalkezAtalkez
    I know what I'm talking about, I've been playing solidly for nearly 5 years, and Hashan has only had a single instance of "flourishing" in all of that time. I never said it needs to be dark Targ, but it needs to stand for SOMETHING. What is it bringing that's unique to the game right now? Not a damn thing. It's fine you want to defend your faction, but please don't insult others as if you're the only one with any knowledge of what's going on over there.

    The population has proven they don't want anything except to be Cyrene-lite, with no clear motivation to move above that. Is that an incorrect statement? I don't believe so. I'm a firm believer that Twilight isn't a great Divine to get behind, so I'm not necessarily blaming the population for choosing not to back him 100%. That said, choosing to back NOTHING means exactly what I said earlier - Hashan doesn't have a clear ethos of what it's even there for, or why it's even a city-state that someone should go to above one of the others. You can't deny those things, and if you do then you're not being realistic about your faction.




    Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
  • MathildaMathilda
    edited October 2017
    It doesn't have to be. But at the moment, Hashan is barely tolerating Twilight as is, because he's the only godmin who has to stay with the city. That's unfair to the guy behind Twi, and it contributes to the high churn rate of Hashani godmins.

    It's entirely possible to embrace the Darkness theme and ideology without kowtowing to Twilight. But I suppose that involves people actually knowing the Darkness ethos...

    edit: evidence of the first paragraph, that Hashan has a tendency to reject its godmins and their theme, hereby fracturing the city's identity

    Sarapis said:
    Regi said:


    Also I have no idea where the idea that our godmins are treated badly has come from, I've never seen a shred of it while I've been actively playing. 

    Most of the godmins would disagree with you, strongly, as would I, and are definitely in a position to know.

     <3 
  • CaliraCalira
    edited October 2017
    Atalkez said:
    stuff
    I'm sorry that you take my disagreement as an insult, as nothing that I've written is meant to insult or attack anyone. I'm open to criticisms of Hashan and I think there's a lot of room for improvement. At the same time, I'm very much opposed to the notion that Hashan 'isn't a real faction' and doesn't bring anything to the game, and that Hashan lacks factional perks because the people don't know how to roleplay. Creating a widely compelling factional identity is not as easy as snapping your fingers, especially if your city is old and has history that makes it stubborn to change.
  • JacenJacen
    Atalkez said:
    What does Hashan stand for? I don’t even know and I’ve played several years. 
    Nobody knows, even if they claim to. They'll either spit out Some Capitalized Words like that upper case letter is a religion unto itself (let those with ears, Listen and crap like that), or they'll drop generic goals that anyone in the world can ascribe to, like the pursuit of knowledge, or the betterment of ourselves, or whatever. I've been Hashan for nearly a decade, and a Darkwalker for a small chunk of that, and both are full of people pretending to know everything, and actually knowing, or most importantly, teaching, nothing.
    image
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