Cities

Jonathin

Trying to establish some kind of identity that appeals to most is difficult. I can't just kick people out if they don't like it without some kind of huge admin mandate and if they don't like it, I get voted out. I take criticisms of Hashan a bit personally because it's not like I'm not trying. It's like Hashan is filled with angsty teenagers that, if you tell them to do something, they'll do the opposite just because you told them to do something. Hence Asria, Mathilda, & co. getting voted out within days of the coup.

And people leaving only makes it more difficult.

Torinn

It is tough.  You're trying to build an identity and a foundation but aren't allowed to remove those that go against it or are hindering it. Maybe find an RP reason to do it?  If it's justified and roleplayed well it might stick

Cooper

Unless you just say they are dormant and kick them out.

Torinn

Dormancy can be justified IG and IC.  I am also an amazing Tyrant.  Better watch out, @Cooper!

Cooper

Ooh, actually, I don't think it can anymore!

Torinn

Er.. dormancy is an IC concept.  Did you forget how to read over there with all that fog?  But anyways, this thread isn't about that, bud.

Verrucht

Torinn said:

Er.. dormancy is an IC concept.  Did you forget how to read over there with all that fog?  But anyways, this thread isn't about that, bud.

Someone needs to read the leaders board.

Torinn

... and?  Are you saying that someone being away from realms for years isn't something recognized IC?  Meh whatever this isnt the thread for that.  Targ is pretty amazing at the sense of comraderie.  There used to be a much larger combatant/non-combatant divide but I think we have made great strides to close that gap, making sure the "scholars" know how to fight and the fighters know about the faith.  It's pretty awesome.  Additionally it's not very clique-ish.  If you contribute your efforts will be recognized

Cooper

You cannot justify kicking someone out of a house IG or IC because they are dormant anymore, sorry!

Xaden

For a balding middle aged man you sure do bitch like a teenage girl...

Torinn

Want to reread my posts up there?  

Cooper

You responded directly to my comment about kicking dormant people out with "Dormancy can be justified IG and IC. I am also an amazing Tyrant."

Kind of hard to imagine you were responding to anything else.

Fantastic insults though! I'll be sure to write them in my journal while I cry that Torinn and Xaden were mean to me tonight.

Edit: I'm not bothering to change my response just because you edited your post 5+ times. Grow up.

Atalkez

Shut up baldy.

Torinn

Well could be miscommunication, maybe I could have worded it differently.  My point was dormancy is recognized ICly as "a thing".  What actions you want to take on that is up to you and what your character would do as long as it lines up with what admins have said.  That's it, no subtext or special meanings.  

Nazihk

Dormancy is recognizable ICly, but kicking people out for it is still a shitty thing to do and a bad idea in general, and it doesn't matter what your reasoning is. The game is small enough without making it harder for people to come back to it. 

Melodie

Torinn said:

Er.. dormancy is an IC concept.  Did you forget how to read over there with all that fog?  But anyways, this thread isn't about that, bud.

Talks about what is and is not an IC concept, makes an OOC insult towards someone based on their IC citizenship.

  

Torinn

Hey this has been beaten to death like a thousand times.  Let's just stop it right here or do we need @Nicola to lock it?

Aralaya

Didn't you start this though...

Nicola

All of you, knock it off and move on. Have a little respect for the OP and take the nonsense back down to ranting.

Tesha

You can remove people from House/City as you see fit when you're the leader. That's one of the powers you have. It's cool if you do stuff differently in your house but don't go crapping all over Torinn for doing things his way in his house.

Antidas

Aralaya said:

Didn't you start this though...

No, he didn't. Cooper did.

Aralaya

Antidas said:

Aralaya said:

Didn't you start this though...

No, he didn't. Cooper did.

This has been pointed out to me already, I misread the posts.

Voli

When I made Voli, it was my understanding that the breakdown of all the cities was essentially:

Targossas: Worships Goodness, militant, faithful
Mhaldor: Worships Evil, militant, faithful, (has this slave thing going on)
Ashtan: Worships Chaos, militant, random/faithful-ish, (seems to like making people wear masks)
Eleusis: Protects Nature, defensive, controls all forests
Cyrene: Neutral, defensive, individualist
Hashan: I assumed it was the city of Progress, Rituals and the height of Civilization, because I somehow got the idea that Hashan and Eleusis were old school enemies because one represented nature and the other represented civilization. Buckawn stuff, too, iirc. I guess they love/hate Twilight and such too. Very aristocratic, so I've heard, as well.

I'm pretty sure this thread confused my perception of Hashan immensely.
This thread has confused me a fair bit, actually... but maybe I'm so low-key/background that I just don't experience 90% of the things that are being talked about.

Also, there's like.. multiple factional.. conflicts? Like.. You have the trinity of Ashtan vs. Mhaldor vs. Targossas, then you have Hashan vs. Eleusis (who hate all cities on the side), and Cyrene as the neutral-ish zone?

Anyway, sorry if I'm rehashing things that were already said, just trying to understand all the cities and stuff.

Torinn

Essentially, each city has its own ethos that conflicts with the others (except cyrene). Targ for example follows Good, and Good is concerned with the prosperity of the entirety of Creation.  Our teachings say that Evil wants prosperity for the few, Darkness wants prosperity for the knowledgeable, and Chaos just wants to burn everything.  It is a bit more nuanced, this is a simplistic explanation

Ozmatiah

I don't know that I accept the reason that Karren, Vender, Nazihk, Mathilda, Aesgar, and whoever left Hashan because 'others were not willing to die' It just feels like a cop out to me, when I think the identity issue is much bigger.  If you take that group, and add Kasa, Regi, Mosr, Sobriquet,  Calira,  Armali,  Ajoc,  Sholen, that other guy, some other gal, you have a team that won the Underworld, dying wasn't the issue, but I feel the focus and goals did. 

There is plenty of people eager and willing to go fight and die, and I think a lot of the others absolutely fall into a category that I feel I'm in right now, I would fight, probably get really into combat, but what am I fighting for?  IT just falls back to that larger sense of purpose and relevancy to the world stage.  I guess I want a bit more than we are raiding Targossas because Good, or we are raiding Mhaldor because Evil.  And watching the Mhaldor/Eleusis war and then the Targossas/Mhaldor war, none of that just seemed fun, maybe if I was top tier talented it would be, but I just don't have that must win at the cost of fun attitude to my games. 


Did I mention Hashan is still fun  

Asmodron

Voli said:

When I made Voli, it was my understanding that the breakdown of all the cities was essentially:

Hashan: I assumed it was the city of Progress, Rituals and the height of Civilization, because I somehow got the idea that Hashan and Eleusis were old school enemies because one represented nature and the other represented civilization. Buckawn stuff, too, iirc. I guess they love/hate Twilight and such too. Very aristocratic, so I've heard, as well.

I'm pretty sure this thread confused my perception of Hashan immensely.
This thread has confused me a fair bit, actually... but maybe I'm so low-key/background that I just don't experience 90% of the things that are being talked about.

Also, there's like.. multiple factional.. conflicts? Like.. You have the trinity of Ashtan vs. Mhaldor vs. Targossas, then you have Hashan vs. Eleusis (who hate all cities on the side), and Cyrene as the neutral-ish zone?

Anyway, sorry if I'm rehashing things that were already said, just trying to understand all the cities and stuff.

You arent incorrect of the Hashan perspectice. One concept of Hashan was indeed about civilization and expansion . This was one of the earliest versions and caused the most hatred with Nature. I actually loved it.

That has quieted down now but it is still there under the surface.

Hashan is a mesh of a lot of different concepts. Ritualism is still part of it, so is progress.

Im glad you brought up the  buckawn part. It's an interesting part of Hashani history...necromancy had quieted down though.

Voli

I had no idea the Buckawn thing involved necromancy.

Mathilda

Ozmatiah said:

I don't know that I accept the reason that Karren, Vender, Nazihk, Mathilda, Aesgar, and whoever left Hashan because 'others were not willing to die' It just feels like a cop out to me, when I think the identity issue is much bigger.  If you take that group, and add Kasa, Regi, Mosr, Sobriquet,  Calira,  Armali,  Ajoc,  Sholen, that other guy, some other gal, you have a team that won the Underworld, dying wasn't the issue, but I feel the focus and goals did. 

There is plenty of people eager and willing to go fight and die, and I think a lot of the others absolutely fall into a category that I feel I'm in right now, I would fight, probably get really into combat, but what am I fighting for?  IT just falls back to that larger sense of purpose and relevancy to the world stage.  I guess I want a bit more than we are raiding Targossas because Good, or we are raiding Mhaldor because Evil.  And watching the Mhaldor/Eleusis war and then the Targossas/Mhaldor war, none of that just seemed fun, maybe if I was top tier talented it would be, but I just don't have that must win at the cost of fun attitude to my games. 


Did I mention Hashan is still fun  

Your second paragraph is spot on. At the moment, there is no overarching goal for Hashan. It is not the city of Darkness, it is the city of the Night. And yet this itself is an empty statement, because the Night identity is hollow. This is because Darkness is one half (third?) of the Night, and yet there is a large portion of the playerbase who want to minimize that Order's influence in the city (and elected players who feel the same way).

So you have a city with no clear identity and thus no clear reason to fight. Ashtan advocates Chaos, so it will fight and die repeatedly for that. Mhaldor champions Evil, and so will do what is needed for that.

A clear example is when Targossas blew up the Arboretum of Enlightenment in Ashtan. Both cities have a clear (somewhat, for Ashtan) identity that both embrace: Good and Chaos. So for Targossas, they had a clear objective: to destroy a place of Chaos, and they did and died and came back until they succeeded.

This is what Hashan is missing, and until the people who are against Darkness are removed, then Hashan will continue to fight itself rather than the world.

Jacen

Asmodron said:

One concept of Hashan was indeed about civilization and expansion.

Hashan is a mesh of a lot of different concepts. Ritualism is still part of it, so is progress.

None of those things in any way make Hashan unique. Civilization is 5 out of 6 cities. Expansion is 5 out of 6 cities. Ritualism and progress are 6 out of 6 cities.

Mathilda

I think what he means is more on the Science and Industry type of progress and civilization.