Quick Combat Questions

Rexia

Edit: blah blah blah I'm over sensitive.

Kuy

Rexia said:

Kuy said:

No one said that. You're overreacting. If you ask for advice and get defensive when someone gives it to you, don't expect more advice in the future. Be grateful someone helped you, not spiteful that they didn't help you in the exact way you expected them to. No one here is obligated to keep you satisfied; they're helping you because they're being nice.

Jovolo said:

You should only die to a blademaster if your mana is at 0, otherwise it's inexcusable. 

Just sayin'. I'm not being defensive because I got the advice, the advice is great. I'm being annoyed because the advice came with a needless smug attitude.

The interesting thing about the internet is that you can't try to derive someone's "attitude" from a wall of text.

Nothing in anything anyone has said has had a "needless smug attitude."  What Jovolo said wasn't mocking or condescending; it was him emphasizing a point. It wasn't meant to make fun of your or make you feel bad.  If you notice, immediately afterward (as in, the next sentence following it) was the exact thing you should be doing.

If you want to get into combat in any IRE, the biggest piece of advice anyone can give you is this:

Develop a tough skin.

If you don't, you're going to subjugate yourself to some pretty unnecessary unfun feelings.

Nim

What he meant was that if you fail to clot like that, you simply are going to die, and the reason you're going to die will simply be due to you failing to clot.

As someone who fought (and sometimes beat) other blademasters without clot, I'd disagree with that point entirely, but I'm pretty sure he was just trying to explain how elementary your error was.

Rexia

Kuy said:

Rexia said:

Kuy said:

No one said that. You're overreacting. If you ask for advice and get defensive when someone gives it to you, don't expect more advice in the future. Be grateful someone helped you, not spiteful that they didn't help you in the exact way you expected them to. No one here is obligated to keep you satisfied; they're helping you because they're being nice.

Jovolo said:

You should only die to a blademaster if your mana is at 0, otherwise it's inexcusable. 

Just sayin'. I'm not being defensive because I got the advice, the advice is great. I'm being annoyed because the advice came with a needless smug attitude.

The interesting thing about the internet is that you can't try to derive someone's "attitude" from a wall of text.

Nothing in anything anyone has said has had a "needless smug attitude."  What Jovolo said wasn't mocking or condescending; it was him emphasizing a point.

I'm not going to ask how you can derive someone's attitude here, but I can't. I'm just going to apologise if I misread the situation and leave it at that.

Jacen

Or maybe it all originated from you coming in saying that blademaster was easymode and their kill method was ridiculously easy to pull off, while you had your "manause" variable set to 70%. 

Be aware of your skill and knowledge level, don't put down classes and those that play them when you don't understand how to fight against them, accept the advice given to you, and move on.

Rexia

Jacen said:

Or maybe it all originated from you coming in saying that blademaster was easymode and their kill method was ridiculously easy to pull off, while you had your "manause" variable set to 70%. 

If it did, sorry. I don't think I actually said any of those things, but okay. I'm not even sure what my manause variable has to do with it as apparently the kill works off bleeding, not mana. 

Jovolo

Nim said:

What he meant was that if you fail to clot like that, you simply are going to die, and the reason you're going to die will simply be due to you failing to clot. As someone who fought (and sometimes beat) other blademasters without clot, I'd disagree with that point entirely, but I'm pretty sure he was just trying to explain how elementary your error was.

Just as in Rexia's situation, dying to something doesn't mean that there isn't, or wasn't, a way to avoid it. I stand by my original point (and opinion, I suppose) in light of that. 

eta: I didn't mean to offend you, Rexia. My wording was just a method to emphasize the elementary mistake and the ease of resolving it to ensure you don't die in that situation.

Rexia

Jovolo said:

Nim said:

What he meant was that if you fail to clot like that, you simply are going to die, and the reason you're going to die will simply be due to you failing to clot. As someone who fought (and sometimes beat) other blademasters without clot, I'd disagree with that point entirely, but I'm pretty sure he was just trying to explain how elementary your error was.

eta: I didn't mean to offend you, Rexia. My wording was just a method to emphasize the elementary mistake and the ease of resolving it to ensure you don't die in that situation.

Okay, sorry about the mix up and thank you for the advice.

Jacen

Rexia said:

Jacen said:

Or maybe it all originated from you coming in saying that blademaster was easymode and their kill method was ridiculously easy to pull off, while you had your "manause" variable set to 70%. 

If it did, sorry. I don't think I actually said any of those things, but okay. I'm not even sure what my manause variable has to do with it as apparently the kill works off bleeding, not mana. 

Rexia said:

Ugh, how do you deal with this? It just kinda seems stupidly easy to pull off.

http://pastebin.com/30LNk1YX - Title is Blademasters are easymode

Ok, on with actual advice:

The survival ability "clot" clots away bleeding at the cost of mana.

svo's "manause" variable (VCONFIG MANAUSE ###) sets the percent of your total mana that svo will not force you to go below. Meaning when your mana is below ##% (in your case 70, which is svo's default) svo will not clot or focus or use any abilities that require mana on use. You can manually clot or focus or whatever, but svo stops automating it below that setting. Set it to 0 or near 0 for blademasters.

svo also has a "preclot" setting. Enable it. This allows you to clot when svo sees a message that it knows is accompanied by some bleeding, instead of the "You bleed for ###" line to do it.

Rexia

Hah, I forgot I set the title to that. It was actually supposed to have a ? in it in my defence.

Gonna check that svo setting, thank you.

Edit: It was set to 35%. I think I'm gonna set an event to change it to 0 and set preclot on when it picks up I'm fighting a BM. Thanks again.

Xith

How much health does an artie pet have? And/or armour. I'm wondering cause of invincibility.

Xli

Xith said:

How much health does an artie pet have? And/or armour. I'm wondering cause of invincibility.

They are fairly low level, I believe. Just make it invincible, and you don't need to worry

Antonius

I'd guess probably on the same level as regular mounts, which isn't a whole lot. From what I remember @Daeir's pet died pretty quickly when somebody attacked it.

Xith

Was asking to duck the credit cost in favor of a custom coding thing but cool.

Carmell

Daeir said:

One crushing crit drawslash from an l3 banded blademaster in thyr was enough to kill my crow - I think their health is dependent on the type of creature they are, within reason though

Invincibility is pretty much required for any pet you intend to use in combat or around Sothantos a lot

Sothantos just mean.  But so is Halos.  He kills zombie kittens and his own hatchling pets.

Dartega

Carmell said:

Daeir said:

One crushing crit drawslash from an l3 banded blademaster in thyr was enough to kill my crow - I think their health is dependent on the type of creature they are, within reason though

Invincibility is pretty much required for any pet you intend to use in combat or around Sothantos a lot

Sothantos just mean.  But so is Halos.  He kills zombie kittens and his own hatchling pets.

My poor cat....

Xith

So, for Magi staffstrike, earth, water, and fire seem to be about 30% limb damage each, while air is about 12%.

To achieve a break (normal + air):

4 + 0

3 + 1

2 + 4

1 + 6

0 + 9

So it takes 4 cold, for example. But 9 air to break one limb. However it takes 10 air strikes to break a dragon, which means it's health based which means it's not just a flat 12% limb damage. Tested with a dragon in lesser and dragonform.

It took 9 strikes at both health levels: 4730, 7370. But I think at a dragon with 9000 once it was 10. Anyone happen to know exactly the air staffstrike formula?

Shecks

dragons have resistances, which may affect limb damage.  I don't know, I don't know much about limb damage equations.

Cooper

Lol

Antonius

@Xith: No idea about staffstrike limb damage values, but it would help if you could be slightly more confident than thinking that maybe one time you took 10 air strikes to break a dragon with over 9000 health.

Jovolo

It's definitely 12% for Air and 30% for all others. I'm not aware of any other factor in higher health targets. It's certainly not Dragon resistances. Test it more with 7,000. 8,000. 9,000 and 10,000. If you can.

Shecks

I remember when I locked @Cooper, in about 10 seconds, last week (with a 300ms ping) when he jumped me while bashing .  Cooper, you're not all-knowing, or even exemplary, in combat skill.  I've fought 22 year old characters without focus who know what they're doing more than you.  Buy more arties, and pay someone to make you a better system, and come back later.

I don't know that much about advanced limb damage calculations, because of the non-new classes, monk is the only I haven't played, because I think it's the easiest, and most boring class in the game.  That said, I am currently in the process of learning about it, just to round off my knowledge of the game, and possibly to work some of it into the game.  Does damage reduction (algiz/HF/racial resist) not affect limb damage?

Rom

They don't affect limb damage, no, nothing does on the defender's end. I suppose you can consider raising your health pool to be affecting it, against non-percentage based attacks (weaponry/tekura/etc).

Edit to clear up some common misconceptions about limb damage while we're at it:
Strength does not raise your limb damage dealt as any class yet released, not to be confused with weapon damage which, of course, does
SoA does not absorb the limb damage of a hit that it absorbs (for example you can be jabbed and have the damage absorbed, but it will still break your prepped leg)
Can't think of any more at the moment!

Antonius

@Shecks:
A lot of classes have attacks that deal static percentages of limb damage. Rend for dragon is 25% limb damage each, as is maul, and I think whatever sylvan uses too.

For weapon attacks it's generally weapon damage stat versus target health; things that increase or reduce damage (strength, resistances, mastery, etc) don't have any effect. I think the exception is Blademaster (see below) but I'm also not sure if their swords use stats in the traditional way.

For monks knuckles increase limb damage on punches, I don't remember if stance has any effect (I don't think it does). Amount of damage required increases with target health.

For Blademasters stance, band level and attack type all seem to be factors against target health.

Jovolo

Stance has a large effect on limb damage of punches/kicks for a Monk. Agreed with everything else.

Anedhel

For weaponry in general (not that anyone except maybe a priest?), doesn't the type also affect the damage dealt? I remember hearing that blunt did twice the damage cutting did, but I have no idea if that's valid anymore (when using targeting in weaponry. For instance, I'm sure even though a staff is blunt the damage that counts is the strike you use when you're using the staffstrike ability).

Jovolo

With slash and doubleslash, the blunt increase in limb damage still applies. Also when using shatter.

Antonius

Oh yes, that's correct. I tend to forget about it because it's very rarely relevant; no classes really mix and match with their main attacks.

Shattering with a battleaxe, while possible, is considerably worse than using a flail. Not sure about twice as much as it's not something I've ever tested.

Cathy

I'm pretty sure that rend is more like 30-33%, since you can rend three times then do another type of hit (like with a blade) to break the limb IIRC.

Also, sylvan limb damage isn't a static %, at very high health levels it takes 5 thornrends, and really low health is 3.

Cooper

@Shecks - You didn't lock me. You specifically sent me a message afterwards saying how hard it was to stick things on me and that my priorities were 'dangerous'.

You killed me with darkshade + lightwall because I hadn't read every announce post in detail and didn't know about the speed update on that.

And you can insult me all you want about knowledge or skill or whatever, but it means nothing. I might not be the best anymore but what I do know about combat and fighting is still among the best in the game.

Sorry I don't want to spend hundreds of hours learning to code and coding my own system when instead I can pay Vadi 60cr for something that works great even if it does have flaws.