Quick Combat Questions

Fitz

Hasar said:

Arena death doesn't cure enlightenment last I did it, few months back.

Bastard, I remember that, jumped me and then tried to arena after I enlightened you!

Hasar

Shin annihilate isn't 100% stopped by mass?

Mizik

RE: Annihilation

No.

Only Lifestones cure Enlightenment.

Dunn

Everything leading up to the 'uncurable gateway' is a giant, blinking neon sign that says 'FUCK OFF QUICK U GON DIE.'

If you get enlightened, you didn't pay attention to the sign and deserve to die. If you get away after an enlighten, you still deserve to die.

Jovolo

Just need to change your perception of enlighten if you feel it can in any way be compared to stain and/or is not near enough an instant kill in the first place. Avoid the ENLIGHTEN, and you'll avoid the Unravel. It was the latter that was implemented later on to give Occies an instant kill off of Enlighten, it's Enlighten that's the real bad boy.

Iocun

Yeah. Enlightenment isn't really an "affliction" in the typical sense. It's a lock.

If you get truelocked by an affliction class, that is just as much a death sentence.

Voen

If both of your arms or legs are broken and you apply restoration, is it random which one gets cured first? Or does it always go left, then right?

Iocun

Voen said:

If both of your arms or legs are broken and you apply restoration, is it random which one gets cured first? Or does it always go left, then right?

Salves, in contrast to herbs, always have a fixed cure order. Restoration to limbs always cures in the order: mangled left, mangled right, broken left, broken right.

Voen

Iocun said:

Voen said:

If both of your arms or legs are broken and you apply restoration, is it random which one gets cured first? Or does it always go left, then right?

Salves, in contrast to herbs, always have a fixed cure order. Restoration to limbs always cures in the order: mangled left, mangled right, broken left, broken right.

Great, thanks for the info.

Caladbolg

Arena death does cures whispering madness, not sure if that's what you mean by enlightenment. I've done it like four times in the past week alone.

Actually let me rephrase that since I have no idea what occies abilities are called.

The one that let's them instantly kill you is cureable by arena death. (Makes you shout)

Arador

Why do I recall that being changed recently?

Antonius

I remember seeing a Mhaldorian dying in the arena recently (in the last two weeks) followed immediately by the enlightenment shout. From that I'd guess it can't be cured by arena death. If it can be, not sure it needs to be changed; if you somehow get far enough away from your opponent with a truelock it's not going to kill you unless you also have something like nausea, darkshade or voyria, and it's possible to be cured out of it by an ally.

Arador

Have to agree. I have seen plenty of escapes from truelocks in raid situations through the years. If death without a miracle rescue is inevitable then why can you not let it wear off after 5 minutes or so. Yes you can run like hell but honestly that is no reason to make it permanent.

Iocun

If it was indeed cured by arena deaths, it should definitely be bugged and changed. Not even arguing based on combat balance here, but simply because I consider using an arena spar to cure afflictions to be a misuse of a mechanic for things it's clearly not intended for.

Now, as for combat balance itself: the fact that it's possible to get away while truelocked and still survive doesn't mean there would be an imbalance if this wasn't the case. Getting away is already typically too easy in many scenarios - there's no reason to reward it more.

Arador

Then why not just make enlightenment the kill? As it is now you can run off and ask a friend to kill you instead.

Cathy

Arador said:

Then why not just make enlightenment the kill? As it is now you can run off and ask a friend to kill you instead.

Because it's a nice little bit of flavour, making someone see the truth, then unraveling their mind, it's cool!

Eld

Just tested, enlighten is cured on entering the arena, but comes back on leaving. And enlightenment without any of the afflictions required to get it is sufficient to unravel, if there was any doubt.

Caladbolg

Eld said:

Just tested, enlighten is cured on entering the arena, but comes back on leaving. And enlightenment without any of the afflictions required to get it is sufficient to unravel, if there was any doubt.

I went into the arena and Bladesuicided and didn't have the affliction unless this was changed in the past day or two.

Eld

Caladbolg said:

Eld said:

Just tested, enlighten is cured on entering the arena, but comes back on leaving. And enlightenment without any of the afflictions required to get it is sufficient to unravel, if there was any doubt.

I went into the arena and Bladesuicided but still had the affliction unless this was changed in the past day or two.

You should have not had the affliction while in the arena and gotten it back when you left.

Caladbolg

Eld said:

Caladbolg said:

Eld said:

Just tested, enlighten is cured on entering the arena, but comes back on leaving. And enlightenment without any of the afflictions required to get it is sufficient to unravel, if there was any doubt.

I went into the arena and Bladesuicided but still had the affliction unless this was changed in the past day or two.

You should have not had the affliction while in the arena and gotten it back when you left.

I typed that entirely wrong, but fixed it now mah bad!

Eld

Caladbolg said:

Eld said:

Caladbolg said:

Eld said:

Just tested, enlighten is cured on entering the arena, but comes back on leaving. And enlightenment without any of the afflictions required to get it is sufficient to unravel, if there was any doubt.

I went into the arena and Bladesuicided but still had the affliction unless this was changed in the past day or two.

You should have not had the affliction while in the arena and gotten it back when you left.

I typed that entirely wrong, but fixed it now mah bad!

That didn't change the meaning, as I interpreted it. You're saying that dying in the arena didn't cure it, same as for me, right?

Caladbolg

Eld said:

Caladbolg said:

Eld said:

Caladbolg said:

Eld said:

Just tested, enlighten is cured on entering the arena, but comes back on leaving. And enlightenment without any of the afflictions required to get it is sufficient to unravel, if there was any doubt.

I went into the arena and Bladesuicided but still had the affliction unless this was changed in the past day or two.

You should have not had the affliction while in the arena and gotten it back when you left.

I typed that entirely wrong, but fixed it now mah bad!

That didn't change the meaning, as I interpreted it. You're saying that dying in the arena didn't cure it, same as for me, right?

Nope completely cured on arena death, As long as I remember (guild days) Dying in the arena cures everything that death would normally cure.

Eld

Caladbolg said:

Eld said:

Caladbolg said:

Eld said:

Caladbolg said:

Eld said:

Just tested, enlighten is cured on entering the arena, but comes back on leaving. And enlightenment without any of the afflictions required to get it is sufficient to unravel, if there was any doubt.

I went into the arena and Bladesuicided but still had the affliction unless this was changed in the past day or two.

You should have not had the affliction while in the arena and gotten it back when you left.

I typed that entirely wrong, but fixed it now mah bad!

That didn't change the meaning, as I interpreted it. You're saying that dying in the arena didn't cure it, same as for me, right?

Nope completely cured on arena death, As long as I remember (guild days) Dying in the arena cures everything that death would normally cure.

Ah, in that case, either you're mistaken or it was changed since you checked.

Iocun

Arador said:

Then why not just make enlightenment the kill? As it is now you can run off and ask a friend to kill you instead.

As @Cathy said, it's primarily a flavour thing. Instead of being killed directly, you are first rendered helpless, leaving it up to the occultist to decide on how to kill you, or possibly even just letting you stay in that state until you heartstop etc.

There can also be some mechanical benefits in certain circumstances though. A direct kill can lead to an instant starburst/transmog/soulcage, allowing the victim to enter the fight right again. When you are facing multiple opponents, you don't want that. When I'm up against several opponents, my aim is usually to lock one, afflict with voyria, and use the time until voyria kills him to lock the second, etc. This gives you much more time to deal with the rest of the group before the first one comes back to life.

Jacen

If you're setting up and locking people inside the space of the voyria timer, why the fuck do we have a thread on monk ridiculousness?

Iocun

Weeell... the next one isn't locked yet by the time voyria finishes, but sometimes close enough to a lock that I can finish it before the first one can go full force again!

Also, most of the time you're being jumped by a whole group, the group consists mainly of people who aren't that deeply into combat and lack some experience. Group fights tend to be spammy and most people who attack in packs focus entirely on offence, without watching their defence at all, so they can be locked far more easily than a person in an 1v1 fight.

Also, serpents are OP.

Zeon

So much easier to lock people in 1vMany fights, than in 1v1 fights. People get so into pressing their bashing macro (in attempt to score the final exp granting blow) that they forget all forms of defensive fighting.

Dunn

Oh, okay.

When did we have to convince you of anything? You seem pretty stout in your opinions as seen in about thirty pages of rants.

PS classleads are done. This horse is dead for now.

Sena

Daeir said:

I've yet to see a convincing argument for permanent afflictions. Anyone going to try beyond "if you get it you deserve to die one way or the other", aka the Dunn defence?

If enlighten was simply an instakill, would that make it any better? I don't see how it would.

Hasar

Tl;dr enlighten/unravel are fine.

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