Quick Combat Questions

Dochitha

Void needs looking at. BM officially momentum class now. OP lock. I bard spam Curare epic pesanto Oso can no stop it. Cos the moment mag gets caught in void game over. 

Ahmet

Fifteen seconds from no affs to locked is stupid, especially coming from a BM with no arties.

Armali

If you're talking about Kalila, I think she has an l2 band.

Ahmet

Mebbe. If so, whoops. Still terrifying though.

Asmodron

I suppose it could be looked into to possibly not allow voidfist with slash if you are in Sanya (admittedly we all knew that may cause issues).


Having recently tested a bit with Sanya stance and voidfist, I can see where the frustration is coming from.

Ryzeth

Ahmet said:

Fifteen seconds from no affs to locked is stupid, especially coming from a BM with no arties.

Every other class that can lock, can lock in that amount of time as well, give or take 2-3 seconds. It's not like it's anything new.

eta: One or two can even lock faster.

Antidas

Ahmet said:

Fifteen seconds from no affs to locked is stupid, especially coming from a BM with no arties.

I can definitely lock you with ease in less than 15 seconds from no prep at all if you don't cure properly. But then I'm also a serpent, not a hybrid like BM...

Ahmet

Yeah, serpents can do it, but they can't also do more damage than I can heal, so I have to choose between active healing or active curing. Or just running like the wind.

Farrah

It's not so much the time-to-lock but the momentum-crushing perma-paralysis that comes with it, I imagine.

Ahmet

Farrah said:

It's not so much the time-to-lock but the momentum-crushing perma-paralysis that comes with it, I imagine.

This too.

Armali

@Asmodron

Sanya combo'd voidfist is a non-issue. It's voidfist itself, not the fact that you can combo it.

Calira

Atalkez said:

Hmm, I think it can miss. 

As of July 2016 (Announce 4599) Pommel can miss, but it still allows a strike to follow afterwards. I'm not entirely sure if this also applies to clumsiness or just missing/dodging.

Ahmet

From what I saw earlier, voidfist makes somewhere between 60-70% of herb eats fail.

Atalkez

Yeah it can miss, but the strike completes. Since the strike only fired, you suffer the balance penalty you'd get for striking alone. 

Kalila

Since I've started testing this, and fighting with this, I've not had pommelstrike miss -once- even against mounted high dex opponents, while afflicted with clumsiness.

I'm sure it can. It's never happened to me.

Aerek

That's my experience as well. I've been BM since multiclass came out, whenever that was, and can't remember a single time where I missed a Pommel. Slashes all the time, but never Pommel.

Void's propensity for complete offensive shutdown is pretty extreme if someone makes a point to use it that way. The chance is 50/50, and I wouldn't want to lower that for fear of neutering the ability, but I wouldn't be opposed only letting it stop 3 consecutive eats, so that you're guaranteed to cure on the 4th. That should preserve its defensive and offensive uses while reigning in the worst cases of RNG turning your fight into a spectator sport.

Exelethril

Remember when pommelstrike used to stun?

Ryzeth

Remember when infuse lightning gave paralysis? Idk if there's a single person in the game (aside from BMs) who weren't grateful that Mak quickly realised that error.

Amranu

'member when Shaman used to be able to give 5 lock affs within 1 second?

Mizik

@Kalila is a badass. All my tricks are stuff I've used for like 3 years. Should see her delayed "double strikes". Sexy.

And stolen

Fresh blood, fresh perspective is always amazing for the game.

Aegoth

wtf is she being wasted in Cyrene for

Dochitha

Agreed with @Aerek about changing Void to have existing chance wasting a max number of eats, and then end. I am not sure how quick they can void again and repeat that. Or if there's other better solution. 15 consecutive eats voided, can't convince me the chance is 50/50.

>5 consecutive eats voided is dangerous enough to be stacked deep enough for a lock to happen, given the speed they can deliver the affs, compared to how easy it is to give void, and there's no cure for void.

Kalila

Dochitha said:

Agreed with @Aerek about changing Void to have existing chance wasting a max number of eats, and then end. I am not sure how quick they can void again and repeat that. Or if there's other better solution. 15 consecutive eats voided, can't convince me the chance is 50/50.

>5 consecutive eats voided is dangerous enough to be stacked deep enough for a lock to happen, given the speed they can deliver the affs, compared to how easy it is to give void, and there's no cure for void.

I think Aerek's suggestion was to have it not be able to fail more than x number in a row, not actually completely cancel out voidfist after a certain amount of eats.

Dochitha

Kalila said:

Dochitha said:

Agreed with @Aerek about changing Void to have existing chance wasting a max number of eats, and then end. I am not sure how quick they can void again and repeat that. Or if there's other better solution. 15 consecutive eats voided, can't convince me the chance is 50/50.

>5 consecutive eats voided is dangerous enough to be stacked deep enough for a lock to happen, given the speed they can deliver the affs, compared to how easy it is to give void, and there's no cure for void.

I think Aerek's suggestion was to have it not be able to fail more than x number in a row, not actually completely cancel out voidfist after a certain amount of eats.

Works too! I just tried tripple eating on void... no chance beating the House.

Nazihk

Aerek said:

That's my experience as well. I've been BM since multiclass came out, whenever that was, and can't remember a single time where I missed a Pommel. Slashes all the time, but never Pommel.

Void's propensity for complete offensive shutdown is pretty extreme if someone makes a point to use it that way. The chance is 50/50, and I wouldn't want to lower that for fear of neutering the ability, but I wouldn't be opposed only letting it stop 3 consecutive eats, so that you're guaranteed to cure on the 4th. That should preserve its defensive and offensive uses while reigning in the worst cases of RNG turning your fight into a spectator sport.

I'm okay with completely neutering it, honestly. BM has other solid kill options so it's not leaving the class toothless, and it's not a particularly interesting technique. Defensively it's boring because your counterplay options for it are "Hope RNGesus is merciful" and offensively it's boring because your main strategy is "Hope he isn't." It's effective, sure, but it's stupid and unfun.

That aside, back in the September classleads lost another effective affliction route and Makarios posted this:

Makarios said:

Going to chip in on the blademaster discussion real quick, to hopefully shed some light on the decision. I knew it'd upset a lot of people, but think this was what needed to happen, and why:

Blademaster isn't an aff class. It wasn't ever meant to be an aff class, and thematically it shouldn't be an aff class (those of you familiar with the lore can probably understand the angle I'm coming from there). The original infuse lightning change was one I shouldn't have made and one of the few reports I can safely say I've seriously regretted approving. I know some people would like blademaster to be an aff class, but that isn't a direction that I'd expect strides in. Its an exceptionally good limb class, and I think effort is better invested diversifying those limb options. That definitely might involve giving them some more hinder, but a purely aff driven route (while I understand is a big selling point for a lot of people) is something I'm not really interested in pursuing for blademaster going forward.

I do know that losing cool toys sucks, and is why I try to make a point of rejecting reports that I suspect will need to be reverted given a few weeks of live use. This is just one of those cases that slipped through the cracks and really should never have been a thing.

My gut feeling is that voidfist is gonna take a substantial beating.

Dochitha

Aegoth said:

wtf is she being wasted in Cyrene for

She is OURS! The Cyrene-tier. Don't even think about it.

Borran

Having little to no experience with Blade master, I'd like to say my go-to phrase for anytime I feel an impending nerd coming,  " I would like to see abilities repurposing instead of deleted"

Classes can have all kinds of utility that help deepen immersion without actually tilting the scales. Or having a unique but niche group combat ability makes someone feel that they are able to contribute in a significant way. 

Antonius

Abilities are hardly ever outright deleted just because they're problematic, so that's a pretty redundant go-to phrase. What's the last ability that was completely deleted without the entire skill being removed?

Coamenel

Antonius said:

Abilities are hardly ever outright deleted just because they're problematic, so that's a pretty redundant go-to phrase. What's the last ability that was completely deleted without the entire skill being removed?

Grove cage springs to mind here.

Cooper

TIL Druids still have groves as a skill.