Quick Combat Questions

Patroklos

I need to work on some less gimmicky kill strats. The loss of juggled bombs, and the balance on mice really hurts.

Dunn

Shitty thing about jester is that once you've seen it, you can vaccinate against it. I say this while cuddling with my old spreadsheet of strategies that will never see the light of day again because fuck jesters. 

I also dont understand why people over complicate 2h. I treat it like serpent: persistence and eyes open for when you should press your advantage or turtle. If someone hands you head fractures, you've pretty much won. Else you just need to be persistent in sticking tendons and health pressuring them with ground hugalaz and maybe a thuri or two. At the end of the day you're just trying to force them to stop applying health in favor of sipping it. 

Patroklos

Dunn said:

Shitty thing about jester is that once you've seen it, you can vaccinate against it. I say this while cuddling with my old spreadsheet of strategies that will never see the light of day again because fuck jesters. 

I also dont understand why people over complicate 2h. I treat it like serpent: persistence and eyes open for when you should press your advantage or turtle. If someone hands you head fractures, you've pretty much won. Else you just need to be persistent in sticking tendons and health pressuring them with ground hugalaz and maybe a thuri or two. At the end of the day you're just trying to force them to stop applying health in favor of sipping it. 

There in lies the problem. You show a trick once, it's expected to happen again. And once you've finally got the prep work done on the puppet and start, it's instantly telegraphed the whole way through. Especially with that trait that can sometimes (usually) makes you ignore commands. :dissapointed:. It doesn't help that mice are easily counterable with their zero hp. Oh, let's not forget the easiest means of telling a Jester to fuck off: walk away.

Armali

Oh I'm sorry, did Jesters lose peels when I wasn't paying attention?

Patroklos

Peels are only so effective, and against most the people I fight they've either got wings or mounts to avoid rubble (though I do love the changes). Seems like peels make life difficult for unintended targets more than intended ones. The hangedman nerf and the increased cost to bind to make it 100% fashion loss hurt.

Dunn

Fashion is one of the worst mechanics in the entire game so I'm good with it. I don't think I ever used a doll 1v1 with jester. They have a hilarious amount of tools without puppetry; I wouldn't have even learned it if it hadn't been for travel and summon. 

Farrah

Jester still has some nice strats, but I really wish proning wasn't so awkward for jester (and shaman). Having to do things like command resto, cripple, mangle x 2 or 3 to hold people down for anything gives a huge opportunity for thinking about how to counter the incoming setup, tumbling, etc.

When you have to mind-numbingly fashion forever to even get to that point, it's like "no thanks."

Puppetry doesn't seem to mesh well with Jester anyway, to me, at least since the mangle nerfs. Sure you can go all juggle/aeon/Mickey, but there are pretty easy counters to those things.

Puxi

Puppetry was what turned me off to the class. It is so boring! Hope a rework is in the future for Jester, but I won't hold my breathe because I can only imagine how much work that would be.

Patroklos

Fashions absolutely kill me. Great if we merc someone 'cause I can fashion once or twice, and then puppet throttle for moderate damage. But in a combat situation I've intentionally tried to avoid using puppets at all, because who the hell's going to sit around while I fashion for two or three minutes while bouncing over walls to heal?

Szanthax

Jester: next big rework

Patroklos

I hope so, they've been talking about it for a while. I know when I asked @Makarios about making it so we don't lose our daggers every throw (therefore justifying buying arty ones) he said he'd look into it down the road. Naturally, with the event going on, and the class reveal in just about a month, I don't foresee it before December at the earliest. :skull:

Anedhel

Quick comment about runie-vs-paladin: 

I like Paladin's utility. Force is excellent, purity/arc is a scary finisher for someone getting hammered on by 2h, the +2 str makes DSB pretty scary, and cleansing is pretty great against a couple classes. Hands is slightly underwhelming compared to algiz, but not a bad defensive addition.

Runewarden probably wins if you have enough arties to be at 21+ str, just because hugalaz is such a bitch (both runeblade and ground), stonewalls are neat, and nauthiz is crazy great. 

Antonius

Anedhel said:

Quick comment about runie-vs-paladin: 

I like Paladin's utility. Force is excellent, purity/arc is a scary finisher for someone getting hammered on by 2h, the +2 str makes DSB pretty scary, and cleansing is pretty great against a couple classes. Hands is slightly underwhelming compared to algiz, but not a bad defensive addition.

Runewarden probably wins if you have enough arties to be at 21+ str, just because hugalaz is such a bitch (both runeblade and ground), stonewalls are neat, and nauthiz is crazy great. 

It's only +1 strength, unless you're assuming Jera 100% of the time as Paladin (which, at least in my experience, isn't a reasonable assumption). For damaged torso disembowels, Lagua's bonus far exceeds the bonus from that extra point of strength (without checking again, I think it also still beats the bonus from two points of strength, or is at least comparable). For non-torso disembowels, the reasonably small difference from that one point probably isn't going to matter. The increased strength is going to give you more consistent damage on your attacks, and slightly more damaging disembowels if you ignore torso damage, but you'd lack the hilarious Hugalaz procs as Paladin, and I suspect they're sufficient to more than make up the difference.

That said, forcing remove armour is always fun, and would make two-handed's damage even more ridiculous if they don't pick up on it.

Patroklos

Unless they have that trait and they just laugh in your face.

Atalkez

Blissful ignorance?

The Force user laughs 8/10 times in that situation.

Patroklos

It works a lot less frequently for hierophant/puppet command it feels like. But that might just be a luck factor.

Anedhel

Antonius said:

Anedhel said:

Quick comment about runie-vs-paladin: 

I like Paladin's utility. Force is excellent, purity/arc is a scary finisher for someone getting hammered on by 2h, the +2 str makes DSB pretty scary, and cleansing is pretty great against a couple classes. Hands is slightly underwhelming compared to algiz, but not a bad defensive addition.

Runewarden probably wins if you have enough arties to be at 21+ str, just because hugalaz is such a bitch (both runeblade and ground), stonewalls are neat, and nauthiz is crazy great. 

It's only +1 strength, unless you're assuming Jera 100% of the time as Paladin (which, at least in my experience, isn't a reasonable assumption). For damaged torso disembowels, Lagua's bonus far exceeds the bonus from that extra point of strength (without checking again, I think it also still beats the bonus from two points of strength, or is at least comparable). For non-torso disembowels, the reasonably small difference from that one point probably isn't going to matter. The increased strength is going to give you more consistent damage on your attacks, and slightly more damaging disembowels if you ignore torso damage, but you'd lack the hilarious Hugalaz procs as Paladin, and I suspect they're sufficient to more than make up the difference.

That said, forcing remove armour is always fun, and would make two-handed's damage even more ridiculous if they don't pick up on it.

I meant non-DSB damage, yeah. In my experience, unless someone's crazy tanky, 2h doesn't really need the torso! From your testing chart, 19 str (Optimized strength, no arties for runie) is 51.41%, and 20 (Optimized strength, no arties for Paladin) is 54.61. With relapsing sensitivity (no reason not to have it when DSBing), that can be enough to murder someone you might've missed on otherwise, though it's a narrowish window. That said, I wouldn't pick it over hugalaz, both floor and runeblade, because floor hugalaz is definitely better than a +1 difference on strength basically anytime. Runewarden's scary  

Andre

Would a lvl 1 artefact rapier be worth it for pvp. I noticed only one point of speed difference from a forged. I feel like that might be unnoticeable.

Sena

1 point of speed is unnoticeable. No idea whether the damage or accuracy makes a difference though.

Ryzeth

Andre said:

Would a lvl 1 artefact rapier be worth it for pvp. I noticed only one point of speed difference from a forged. I feel like that might be unnoticeable.

Honestly level 2 or 3, or just save the credits until you can get a level 2 or 3 (unless you need other arties). Now that forged ones got buffed, unless you want to customise one there's no real point to a lv1.

Farrah

That shouldn't be the case. The level 1 got buffed too, but the artifact scroll never got updated. The stats, from the artifact shop, are as follows:

        rapier60147 a blackened rapier                             
                    Dmg:  57;  To-hit: 168;  Spd: 238

        rapier68061 an Eagle's Scream                             
                    Dmg:  60;  To-hit: 173;  Spd: 242

        rapier21927 a Soulpiercer                               
                    Dmg:  63;  To-hit: 184;  Spd: 246

So it is a 3 point speed difference, for what it's worth, not 1 point.

Aegoth

4, farrah... 4

Krypton

A forged rapier is 235.

Farrah

Aegoth said:

4, farrah... 4

What is 238 - 235? You can do this!

Frederich

Is this the place to ask this?  Iunno.  It's combat related but..

What is, roughly, the damage increase that +2 strength would give to a monk in terms of damage/breaking power?  This is going from 14 strength to 16.

How does it look if it's accounting for Jera? (15 to 17)

I don't exactly PVP much at all, but I'm wondering if it'd be a safer bet to just nab knuckles or not.

Ryzeth

Frederich said:

Is this the place to ask this?  Iunno.  It's combat related but..

What is, roughly, the damage increase that +2 strength would give to a monk in terms of damage/breaking power?  This is going from 14 strength to 16.

How does it look if it's accounting for Jera? (15 to 17)

I don't exactly PVP much at all, but I'm wondering if it'd be a safer bet to just nab knuckles or not.

Knuckles reduces the amount of hits it will take to break a limb, slightly on top of giving damage. Strength is just pure damage. Regardless the damage difference won't be extreme, but the BBT damage will likely be noticeable.

Ahmet

Does attune have a third-person message when it afflicts? If so, does that contain some indication of what it afflicted, or just that it procced?

Antonius

It has a message for the target and another message for the Depthswalker, both of which will indicate which affliction was given. As far as I know there's nothing for other people in the room.

Ahmet

Ah, cool. Easy to track then. Thanks!

Ryzeth

Antonius said:

It has a message for the target and another message for the Depthswalker, both of which will indicate which affliction was given. As far as I know there's nothing for other people in the room.

Madness also gives one when it fires, too. (The affliction, not the madness attune). Similar lines, iirc.