Extermination and Vivification

Naoma

Aegoth said:

lol comparing forestbind to ghands. These kids... smh

taking away a hinder for a hinder works for me. 

Farrah

Taryius said:

People need to stop taking losing as equal to griefing... Mhaldor bashed what, 40 guards in Targossas when you all abandoned the city and in retaliation you guys came in bashed some of our guards and blew two tanks? Didn't hear us complaining then. Its the ebb and flow of war, to actually think we were trying to bankrupt you guys with 40 guards is dumb, if we wanted to actually grief we'd do this on more than one occassion. 

I don't know what you remember but while I've been in Mhaldor we've gone on two guard killing sprees, one in Targ and one in Eleusis. (okay another one in Cyrene, but that was cause we were just raiding Cyrene and had to kill guards every time, in this same raid Targossas went into Mhaldor and bashed all our guards at the same time).

But who cares, I'm just an OOC jerk cause i'm mhaldorian.  

Idk how Targ got brought into the exterm thread, but I don't care if you bash our guards and said as much at the time. I'll just hit back.

"Didn't hear us complaining" is admittedly a very broad statement though. Somebody probably complained somewhere. Just a matter of who hears it and who doesn't, and what people choose to attribute to an entire faction and what they say is "just that person." Mhaldor was actually extremely well known for complaining about everything before their population picked up and they started winning more. It's the same cycle that just kinda goes around.

Some people in every faction complain a lot. A lot happens on certain OOC clans or Discord though and people not a part of those can remain blissfully unaware.

Proficy

@farrah
I would like to complain about you complaining about me complaining.
You complainer.

Caelan

Just to get back on topic and get the cycle kickstarted again.. 

Exterm is OP.   Rejuv is fine.  Vivify needs to be quicker and with less infamy.

Titonus

Naoma said:

Aegoth said:

lol comparing forestbind to ghands. These kids... smh

taking away a hinder for a hinder works for me. 

Forestbinding isn't really comparable to gravehands, since they have what, 66% chance of stopping your move for their duration, whereas forestbinding has a 100% chance of stopping a non-evading serpent for an entire hour.

Taryius

Gravehands is just typical room hinder every faction gets... Targ has piety, Hashan and Ashtan get occultists and tentacles, Eleusis gets wildgrowth, and every DW gets distortion. Wildgrowth and tentacles are a bit weaker in their proc chance but they aren't static and follow the person around.

Cooper

Cailin said:

Exxia said:

To everyone that said that rejuving forests was costly and time consuming, you're only talking about whole forests being rejuving solo

No, Exxia, we're not. It took a minimum of 1 RL hour for a whole group of people to heal a large exterm (say about 100 rooms). Which has already been said, but I thought I'd go ahead and repeat it. I try to be logical and look at both sides fairly as much as I can, and this is my honest estimate, as best I can remember.

I'm going to keep repeating this until you guys understand, but it only takes so long because you insist on replanting when you rejuv.

1 Rejuv = roughly 10 seconds
100 rejuvs = 17 minutes. Less if you have more people.

Calira

Taryius said:

Gravehands is just typical room hinder every faction gets... Targ has piety, Hashan and Ashtan get occultists and tentacles, Eleusis gets wildgrowth, and every DW gets distortion. Wildgrowth and tentacles are a bit weaker in their proc chance but they aren't static and follow the person around.

Slightly off topic, but while Wildgrowth indeed has a reduced (50%) chance, Tentacles has the full 66%

Melodie

50%? 66%? I remember reading somewhere by Mak that every single room hinder (I mean, not ice/bananas, but still like piety, gravehands etc) is all 33% chance. The differences for tents and wildgrowth is that their advantage is being portable, while piety can be spread in multiple rooms (at a high cost) invisibly, but all three die when the user dies. Gravehands is very visible, also has the highest cost to spread/maintain due to its very quick decay rate, but doesn't die with its user.

Super off topic, but as far as I know, the above is still true.

Titonus

Melodie said:

50%? 66%? I remember reading somewhere by Mak that every single room hinder (I mean, not ice/bananas, but still like piety, gravehands etc) is all 33% chance. The differences for tents and wildgrowth is that their advantage is being portable, while piety can be spread in multiple rooms (at a high cost) invisibly, but all three die when the user dies. Gravehands is very visible, also has the highest cost to spread/maintain due to its very quick decay rate, but doesn't die with its user.

Super off topic, but as far as I know, the above is still true.

There's no way piety keeps me from moving 27 times in a row on a 33% chance...

Melodie

Think of it like the SoA. There's only a 15% chance of it proccing, but we all know how well and often it procs. 33% sounds low, but when you have a very high number of "dice rolls", so to speak, in a short amount of time, the lower-end percentages feel a lot higher than they really are.

Calira

Melodie said:

50%? 66%? I remember reading somewhere by Mak that every single room hinder (I mean, not ice/bananas, but still like piety, gravehands etc) is all 33% chance. The differences for tents and wildgrowth is that their advantage is being portable, while piety can be spread in multiple rooms (at a high cost) invisibly, but all three die when the user dies. Gravehands is very visible, also has the highest cost to spread/maintain due to its very quick decay rate, but doesn't die with its user.

Super off topic, but as far as I know, the above is still true.

That's an old rumour that Mak dispelled somewhat recently. Using a method that @Armali devised, we tested Distortion, Tents, Wildgrowth about 15000 times each, coming up with 66%, 66% and 50%, respectively. We also tested Peels, but due to its proning nature, her method was far less effective; after 250 tests, we had a 30% proc rate on it.

Melodie

Assuming the above is true (I've not seen wherever this was dispelled - was that in the combat section of the forums?), wildgrowth is likely a bit less due to the fact that tentacles requires karma, a much more limited thing compared to wildgrowth (I can't remember if it's just mana, or mana and sunlight, but either way sunlight is a lot easier to get ahold of).

Edit: Either way, none of this compares to forestbind. Imagine someone can go into an area you're bashing and close off any rooms you haven't killed denizens in yet, but they can pass freely without issue. That's a much closer (and still somewhat inaccurate) comparison. 

Calira

Melodie said:

Assuming the above is true (I've not seen wherever this was dispelled - was that in the combat section of the forums?), wildgrowth is likely a bit less due to the fact that tentacles requires karma, a much more limited thing compared to wildgrowth (I can't remember if it's just mana, or mana and sunlight, but either way sunlight is a lot easier to get ahold of).

Having played an Occultist for a while, Karma is incredibly easy to get. With the minor trait and without the arti, it's now 4% karma per tick. The Gem of Wonder from Tordahl alone gives at least 80-90%. Tentas is 1 or 2%, I can't recall off the top of my head which.

Edit: So other people can verify themselves, block a direction, set up your room hinder, and have a partner queue bal up 10 movements at a time with the separator. If you see the block message, then the room hinder failed, and if you see the proc message then it did not. Contrary to popular belief, being off balance does not guarantee room hinder procs.

Melodie

Still takes more time/seeking out than standing there and pressing an alias when the sun is up.

Caelan

That's an old rumour that Mak dispelled somewhat recently. Using a method that @Armali devised, we tested Distortion, Tents, Wildgrowth about 15000 times each, coming up with 66%, 66% and 50%, respectively. We also tested Peels, but due to its proning nature, her method was far less effective; after 250 tests, we had a 30% proc rate on it.

This would certainly explain the ridiculous luck I get w Gravehands.  

Makarios

66% for major hinders is correct. There's not really a reason for wildgrowth being 50%, its just never come up.

Ailea

Well that's time I will definitely not get back....
9 pages of: 
boo exterminate
boo vivifyication 
want more things
more rp please 
side 1 complains
side 2 complains 
bystanders complain

Good lord..Enjoy the game and be thankful 

 Can't we have new mechanics and for once give a nice "Thank you" instead of "BUT THIS IS NOT WHAT WE WANT"

Exxia

Finally, this should completely tone down and ultimately obsolete forest fighting, the essence drain is so significant that no actual necromancy user will use it, as the essence regain is nothing like sunlight and either takes a lot of time or a lot of hearts. Furthermore, you're welcome Eleusis as your rejuvination has not changed but there is no more essence gain for a Necromancer using Exterminate. This makes extermination a thing of the past.

Delete lycopods

Prythe

Gavriil said:

Rangor said:

Gavriil said:

Xaden said:

In reality, this entire conflict really advocates for the renaissance, such as it was. It goes to show that it's not overly healthy to have a faction that pulls in different directions. If the entire of Eleusis were on the same page from the start they'd not have gotten so royally boned and either would have won by sheer strength of number (and that autoLoS) or at least been able to pull out with a bit more pride.

As it stands, however, you had 50% or less of the city pushing for further conflict throughout and the remainder trying to avoid it and feeling hard-done-by. 

I'd imagine these changes will allow for more equal rooting when it comes to conflict that will enable what is essentially three different factions (Mdor, LoSis, and GreenCyrene) to get what they want out of the game without being excessively griefy/griefed.

Except Eleusis was more unified before the renaissance....  so had the renaissance not happened, there is a good chance Eleusis would still be as unified as it was before it happened.  

We really weren't 

I dunno man, I mean I know some things had happened, but overall Eleusis felt closer back then, and honestly until this Mhaldor thing I didn't know if Eleusis could still pull together like it used to. We still gotta figure out what to do about the houses even now... Maybe that's what made it feel more unified, each house actually had a unique vision.... I dunno but something is missing since the ren. 

Druids.

But once they were forced to join Eleusis they lost all what made them unique and a good part of build in RP opportunities. 

Rangor

Prythe said:

Gavriil said:

Rangor said:

Gavriil said:

Xaden said:

In reality, this entire conflict really advocates for the renaissance, such as it was. It goes to show that it's not overly healthy to have a faction that pulls in different directions. If the entire of Eleusis were on the same page from the start they'd not have gotten so royally boned and either would have won by sheer strength of number (and that autoLoS) or at least been able to pull out with a bit more pride.

As it stands, however, you had 50% or less of the city pushing for further conflict throughout and the remainder trying to avoid it and feeling hard-done-by. 

I'd imagine these changes will allow for more equal rooting when it comes to conflict that will enable what is essentially three different factions (Mdor, LoSis, and GreenCyrene) to get what they want out of the game without being excessively griefy/griefed.

Except Eleusis was more unified before the renaissance....  so had the renaissance not happened, there is a good chance Eleusis would still be as unified as it was before it happened.  

We really weren't 

I dunno man, I mean I know some things had happened, but overall Eleusis felt closer back then, and honestly until this Mhaldor thing I didn't know if Eleusis could still pull together like it used to. We still gotta figure out what to do about the houses even now... Maybe that's what made it feel more unified, each house actually had a unique vision.... I dunno but something is missing since the ren. 

Druids.

But once they were forced to join Eleusis they lost all what made them unique and a good part of build in RP opportunities. 

I also think that forcing the druids to merge with Eleusis was a bad idea.

Caelan

@Exxia how many plants were in the room?

Exxia

it differed from room to room, but I never put showplants so I don't know

Caelan

@Exxia Pretty sure the essence drain/gain is related to the number of plants.  So if it was a freshly replanted grove, you would lose more essence than you would gain.  Might be the issue here.  If your guys had already extermed, and then you came in after we replanted, it wouldn't return as much essence.

I could be 100% wrong.

Naoma

@Caelan no othey would garner more essence I believe off of destroying the plants, which is why when they were running mass exterms, we just wouldn't replant, which ended up forcing some of them to go to places such as Bop and Meropis to exterm to get the essence back, at least that was how it was explained to me by Merewyn, though I could be completely wrong

Rangor

That is how the work, but with the changes to extermination and introduction of vivification the essence costs are completely reworked and increased by a lot I believe.