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Extermination and Vivification

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  • TaryiusTaryius Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 816 @ - Epic Achaean
    The same points keep being stated by the same people over and over and we have veered long from vivification and extermination...

    The summary of the story is a couple of people in Mhaldor wanted a fight, went into Eleusis looking for one and didn't get it... And that made us sad. You shouldn't condemn someone for attempting to make an even fight for enjoyment on both sides, when we were in Eleusis we were not up against noncoms. 

    People need to stop taking losing as equal to griefing... Mhaldor bashed what, 40 guards in Targossas when you all abandoned the city and in retaliation you guys came in bashed some of our guards and blew two tanks? Didn't hear us complaining then. Its the ebb and flow of war, to actually think we were trying to bankrupt you guys with 40 guards is dumb, if we wanted to actually grief we'd do this on more than one occassion. 

    I don't know what you remember but while I've been in Mhaldor we've gone on two guard killing sprees, one in Targ and one in Eleusis. (okay another one in Cyrene, but that was cause we were just raiding Cyrene and had to kill guards every time, in this same raid Targossas went into Mhaldor and bashed all our guards at the same time).

    But who cares, I'm just an OOC jerk cause i'm mhaldorian. :( 
    Prythe
  • AnkhareoutefAnkhareoutef Member Posts: 347 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Taryius said:
    The same points keep being stated by the same people over and over and we have veered long from vivification and extermination...

    The summary of the story is a couple of people in Mhaldor wanted a fight, went into Eleusis looking for one and didn't get it... And that made us sad. You shouldn't condemn someone for attempting to make an even fight for enjoyment on both sides, when we were in Eleusis we were not up against noncoms. 

    People need to stop taking losing as equal to griefing... Mhaldor bashed what, 40 guards in Targossas when you all abandoned the city and in retaliation you guys came in bashed some of our guards and blew two tanks? Didn't hear us complaining then. Its the ebb and flow of war, to actually think we were trying to bankrupt you guys with 40 guards is dumb, if we wanted to actually grief we'd do this on more than one occassion. 

    I don't know what you remember but while I've been in Mhaldor we've gone on two guard killing sprees, one in Targ and one in Eleusis. (okay another one in Cyrene, but that was cause we were just raiding Cyrene and had to kill guards every time, in this same raid Targossas went into Mhaldor and bashed all our guards at the same time).

    But who cares, I'm just an OOC jerk cause i'm mhaldorian. :( 
    Yea, I'll second this. Mhaldor is normally pretty good with us. Even when they come at us with huge numbers, they haven't bitched about us using guards. I like fighting Mhaldor.
    Kiet
  • NaomaNaoma Member Posts: 58 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited June 2017
    Reyson said:
    To clarify, we'd extermed a different room, they forestbound, and it was only when we were moving to get our ducks in a row that Mycen started worldburn. 

    I find the line of 'don't exterm on a shrine' a bit funny, coming from Naoma, because when I pointed it out, she:

    A ) Claimed she didn't know it was done until I told her;
    B ) Claimed she has no control whatsoever over what other people do;
    C ) Claimed Mycen kinda went rogue on that one and worldburned without her team knowing/asking her to.

    So now, getting the 'lol your fault' answer as if it was planned all along and totally what they'd wanted to do, a few days later after the fact, is pretty laughable. But that's forums for you. 
    I didn't know nor did I say not to exterm on a shrine, but I did say "Don't turtle up on a shrine." I don't know what forestbind is like on the other side cause I am a druid. So the lol your fault is YOUR fault. Wb sucks, but I didn't know til you messaged me. It might have been mentioned in party but I was trying to get out of Ghands. If you want to classlead forestbinding expect there to be classleads on weakening gh 
  • AegothAegoth Member Posts: 2,840 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    lol comparing forestbind to ghands. These kids... smh
    Kiet
  • NaomaNaoma Member Posts: 58 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Aegoth said:
    lol comparing forestbind to ghands. These kids... smh
    taking away a hinder for a hinder works for me. 

  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 2,319 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Just to get back on topic and get the cycle kickstarted again.. 

    Exterm is OP.   Rejuv is fine.  Vivify needs to be quicker and with less infamy.

  • TitonusTitonus Youngstown, OhioMember Posts: 238 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Naoma said:
    Aegoth said:
    lol comparing forestbind to ghands. These kids... smh
    taking away a hinder for a hinder works for me. 

    Forestbinding isn't really comparable to gravehands, since they have what, 66% chance of stopping your move for their duration, whereas forestbinding has a 100% chance of stopping a non-evading serpent for an entire hour.

  • TaryiusTaryius Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 816 @ - Epic Achaean
    Gravehands is just typical room hinder every faction gets... Targ has piety, Hashan and Ashtan get occultists and tentacles, Eleusis gets wildgrowth, and every DW gets distortion. Wildgrowth and tentacles are a bit weaker in their proc chance but they aren't static and follow the person around.
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,526 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cailin said:
    Exxia said:

    To everyone that said that rejuving forests was costly and time consuming, you're only talking about whole forests being rejuving solo
    No, Exxia, we're not. It took a minimum of 1 RL hour for a whole group of people to heal a large exterm (say about 100 rooms). Which has already been said, but I thought I'd go ahead and repeat it. I try to be logical and look at both sides fairly as much as I can, and this is my honest estimate, as best I can remember.
    I'm going to keep repeating this until you guys understand, but it only takes so long because you insist on replanting when you rejuv.

    1 Rejuv = roughly 10 seconds
    100 rejuvs = 17 minutes. Less if you have more people.

  • CaliraCalira Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 572 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Taryius said:
    Gravehands is just typical room hinder every faction gets... Targ has piety, Hashan and Ashtan get occultists and tentacles, Eleusis gets wildgrowth, and every DW gets distortion. Wildgrowth and tentacles are a bit weaker in their proc chance but they aren't static and follow the person around.
    Slightly off topic, but while Wildgrowth indeed has a reduced (50%) chance, Tentacles has the full 66%
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,147 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2017
    50%? 66%? I remember reading somewhere by Mak that every single room hinder (I mean, not ice/bananas, but still like piety, gravehands etc) is all 33% chance. The differences for tents and wildgrowth is that their advantage is being portable, while piety can be spread in multiple rooms (at a high cost) invisibly, but all three die when the user dies. Gravehands is very visible, also has the highest cost to spread/maintain due to its very quick decay rate, but doesn't die with its user.

    Super off topic, but as far as I know, the above is still true.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • TitonusTitonus Youngstown, OhioMember Posts: 238 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Melodie said:
    50%? 66%? I remember reading somewhere by Mak that every single room hinder (I mean, not ice/bananas, but still like piety, gravehands etc) is all 33% chance. The differences for tents and wildgrowth is that their advantage is being portable, while piety can be spread in multiple rooms (at a high cost) invisibly, but all three die when the user dies. Gravehands is very visible, also has the highest cost to spread/maintain due to its very quick decay rate, but doesn't die with its user.

    Super off topic, but as far as I know, the above is still true.
    There's no way piety keeps me from moving 27 times in a row on a 33% chance...

  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,147 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2017
    Think of it like the SoA. There's only a 15% chance of it proccing, but we all know how well and often it procs. 33% sounds low, but when you have a very high number of "dice rolls", so to speak, in a short amount of time, the lower-end percentages feel a lot higher than they really are.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • CaliraCalira Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 572 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited June 2017
    Melodie said:
    50%? 66%? I remember reading somewhere by Mak that every single room hinder (I mean, not ice/bananas, but still like piety, gravehands etc) is all 33% chance. The differences for tents and wildgrowth is that their advantage is being portable, while piety can be spread in multiple rooms (at a high cost) invisibly, but all three die when the user dies. Gravehands is very visible, also has the highest cost to spread/maintain due to its very quick decay rate, but doesn't die with its user.

    Super off topic, but as far as I know, the above is still true.
    That's an old rumour that Mak dispelled somewhat recently. Using a method that @Armali devised, we tested Distortion, Tents, Wildgrowth about 15000 times each, coming up with 66%, 66% and 50%, respectively. We also tested Peels, but due to its proning nature, her method was far less effective; after 250 tests, we had a 30% proc rate on it.
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,147 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2017
    Assuming the above is true (I've not seen wherever this was dispelled - was that in the combat section of the forums?), wildgrowth is likely a bit less due to the fact that tentacles requires karma, a much more limited thing compared to wildgrowth (I can't remember if it's just mana, or mana and sunlight, but either way sunlight is a lot easier to get ahold of).

    Edit: Either way, none of this compares to forestbind. Imagine someone can go into an area you're bashing and close off any rooms you haven't killed denizens in yet, but they can pass freely without issue. That's a much closer (and still somewhat inaccurate) comparison. 
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • CaliraCalira Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 572 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited June 2017
    Melodie said:
    Assuming the above is true (I've not seen wherever this was dispelled - was that in the combat section of the forums?), wildgrowth is likely a bit less due to the fact that tentacles requires karma, a much more limited thing compared to wildgrowth (I can't remember if it's just mana, or mana and sunlight, but either way sunlight is a lot easier to get ahold of).
    Having played an Occultist for a while, Karma is incredibly easy to get. With the minor trait and without the arti, it's now 4% karma per tick. The Gem of Wonder from Tordahl alone gives at least 80-90%. Tentas is 1 or 2%, I can't recall off the top of my head which.

    Edit: So other people can verify themselves, block a direction, set up your room hinder, and have a partner queue bal up 10 movements at a time with the separator. If you see the block message, then the room hinder failed, and if you see the proc message then it did not. Contrary to popular belief, being off balance does not guarantee room hinder procs.
    Dochitha
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 5,147 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Still takes more time/seeking out than standing there and pressing an alias when the sun is up.
    And I love too                                                                          Be still, my indelible friend
    That love soon might end                                                         You are unbreaking
    And be known in its aching                                                      Though quaking
    Shown in this shaking                                                             Though crazy
    Lately of my wasteland, baby                                                 That's just wasteland, baby
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 2,319 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    That's an old rumour that Mak dispelled somewhat recently. Using a method that @Armali devised, we tested Distortion, Tents, Wildgrowth about 15000 times each, coming up with 66%, 66% and 50%, respectively. We also tested Peels, but due to its proning nature, her method was far less effective; after 250 tests, we had a 30% proc rate on it.
    This would certainly explain the ridiculous luck I get w Gravehands.  

    Dochitha
  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,917 Achaean staff
    66% for major hinders is correct. There's not really a reason for wildgrowth being 50%, its just never come up.
    CaliraWicellaShirszaeDochitha
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,296 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    As someone who manages a significantly larger game community for a job, I can safely say: nope, not ever.
    AhmetTysandrAsmodron
  • ExxiaExxia Member Posts: 257 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished


    Finally, this should completely tone down and ultimately obsolete forest fighting, the essence drain is so significant that no actual necromancy user will use it, as the essence regain is nothing like sunlight and either takes a lot of time or a lot of hearts. Furthermore, you're welcome Eleusis as your rejuvination has not changed but there is no more essence gain for a Necromancer using Exterminate. This makes extermination a thing of the past.

    Delete lycopods
  • PrythePrythe Member Posts: 518 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Gavriil said:
    Rangor said:
    Gavriil said:
    Xaden said:
    In reality, this entire conflict really advocates for the renaissance, such as it was. It goes to show that it's not overly healthy to have a faction that pulls in different directions. If the entire of Eleusis were on the same page from the start they'd not have gotten so royally boned and either would have won by sheer strength of number (and that autoLoS) or at least been able to pull out with a bit more pride.

    As it stands, however, you had 50% or less of the city pushing for further conflict throughout and the remainder trying to avoid it and feeling hard-done-by. 

    I'd imagine these changes will allow for more equal rooting when it comes to conflict that will enable what is essentially three different factions (Mdor, LoSis, and GreenCyrene) to get what they want out of the game without being excessively griefy/griefed.
    Except Eleusis was more unified before the renaissance....  so had the renaissance not happened, there is a good chance Eleusis would still be as unified as it was before it happened.  
    We really weren't 
    I dunno man, I mean I know some things had happened, but overall Eleusis felt closer back then, and honestly until this Mhaldor thing I didn't know if Eleusis could still pull together like it used to. We still gotta figure out what to do about the houses even now... Maybe that's what made it feel more unified, each house actually had a unique vision.... I dunno but something is missing since the ren. 
    Druids.

    But once they were forced to join Eleusis they lost all what made them unique and a good part of build in RP opportunities. 

    - To love another person is to see the face of G/d
    - Let me get my hat and my knife
    - It's your apple, take a bite
    - Don't dream it ... be it


    Rangor
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 2,319 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Exxia how many plants were in the room?

    Austere
  • ExxiaExxia Member Posts: 257 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    it differed from room to room, but I never put showplants so I don't know
  • CaelanCaelan Member Posts: 2,319 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Exxia Pretty sure the essence drain/gain is related to the number of plants.  So if it was a freshly replanted grove, you would lose more essence than you would gain.  Might be the issue here.  If your guys had already extermed, and then you came in after we replanted, it wouldn't return as much essence.

    I could be 100% wrong.

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