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Comments
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
BM. Go play it right now and go through the combat rankings with it. You can't. Take all the effort you want. When people can avoid brokenstar or just outright ignore it, you are in a pickle. Good luck missing on regular attacks on top of clumsiness.
@Adrik
I don't have a problem with gambling, I, along with a lot of other people, like to invest in games that I enjoy. I spent all that money over the last 12-13 years.
I WANT more people to classlead their ideas, not less. Every single person has an idea or solution that may lead to great results. I am just stating that people need to put time into playing DwB Infernal in order to truly understand what is and is not possible/easy. You may see Proficy go around destroying people in DwB Infernal but you have no clue the time, resources and money he put into obtaining that level of play. Their is no one here that knows more about the pros and cons of DwB Infernal than Proficy because no one else plays it.
My statement about playing them at a HIGH level is an ignorant, stupid and please disregard it. I truly believe everyone needs to classlead what they wish to see changed in the game rather than let "more knowledgeable" people classlead for them is what has been happening for a while. They may not have all the different points of view. Also Mak is human, I know it was a surprise to me too. My only problem is that people, including myself, tend to speak out of ignorance but never truly tested what they see as being a problem. Does Achaea have a public testing server? We need one to truly test these things.
@Farrah
All true and I respect your viewpoints. I just like to remind people of things they may have forgotten or never experienced. I understand everything you stated. Does it need to be tweaked? Sure. But tweaking DwB has a consequence for three classes so it needs to be tested and reviewed. People who say DwB Infernal vivisect/pulp is unavoidable don't understand the requirements to do both. They are not as easy with the momentum as people think they are and both can be very telling and countered.
@Calira
Deathaura takes balance. Daegger hunt takes balance. People forget about how FAST achaean combat is. 12 seconds and you can be locked. Yes, Apostates can pressure health and mana and make someone go defensive. I agree. Not as easily as you think they can though. Curseward, paralysis, clumsiness and running into different rooms are quite difficult to deal with. Apostate is in a good spot if Catheris can go through shield or they speed up Corrupt by a lot.
Deathaura is something you put up before the fight even starts. Since it's mobile, it's not really worth mentioning as a balance you have to spend. Daegger hunt is likewise actually free in combat now since it's usable off balance.
Levitate is usable off balance as well. You never have to slow your offense for the daegger anymore. It can also be made balanceless with an artifact, which basically just lets you get hunt setup faster (rather than deadeyes/levitate, deadeyes/hunt, you can just do levitate/deadeyes/hunt).
Not many new players have the ability to purchase 400 credits for the daegger though. So two balances to get daegger hunt going. Deathaura before engagement isn't too bad.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
I don't often see eye to eye with things she says, but comments like these don't really help anyone. Particularly when there's plenty of reasons someone can't/won't go and play X class. Doesn't mean they can't comment on the class.
Also : bard doesn't look like it's gotten any hard nerfs, which is a bit of a relief.
Fighting dwb is just un-fun as certain classes and/ or certain health thresholds. Barring arti differences, if I lose to a class it should be because I made mistake(s), not because I'm doomed to lose if I don't kill them first.
That is what we have lost sight of throughout the years. We have constantly made changes to classes due to artefacts combined with the class set. We, as a community, don't think about the real money people spend on this game is all I am saying. We, as a community, tend to nerf things into the ground and increase the difficultly of playing a class. This impacts new players more than players who can use multiclass to change whenever they want. Isn't that what we are trying to accomplish? Bring new players and new blood into this community? The more we change classes due to artefacts the harder we are making it for new players.
I disagree that "Everyone should just classlead what they want even if they don't know what they're talking about".. because it ends up with a decent chunk of the unapproved pile and stuff. I sure-as-hell ain't going to argue for nerfs/buffs to things when I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.
I think you've got it backwards. The situation that hurts new comers is walking into a fight and being totally obliterated, because you didn't spend money like someone else did. That's not a good place to be for the game. No one has lost sight of the fact that people have spent money on the game. The problem, whether you want to note it or not, is that artefacts have become so widespread - you have to balance around them. It doesn't do us any good to balance a class perfectly, then let someone spend money and now the class does things it wasn't actually intended to do. This is why Torc was deleted, and why damage has been worked and re-worked over the years. It's a process of fine tuning mechanics so that you have an advantage, while it not being so enormous that you can't overcome it with skill. At the end of the day, I 100% believe that the more skillful player should win - not the person who does more damage because they had a bigger credit card or whatever it was that allowed them to buy a ton of artefacts.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
On the whole I would say that it's actually gotten significantly more difficult to pay-to-win over the years. The cost involved to have everything is higher (which I think is the point you're making), but the benefit of having everything is often lower, at least for PvP. That probably doesn't make new players feel any better when they see the costs involved, though.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Momentum decay is also insanely slow compared to momentum gain, so you can go defensive and not lose all your momentum like an actual momentum class does. I'm sure a prep class could hit and run slow prep the DWB but some classes really have no option.
Factor in not having to go as defensive as others if you have defensive artefacts against damage, and the hinder race - being able to afflict .3s quicker, or stick afflictions 2 hits quicker than your opponent, it can combine to a rather large difference given the small window available.
It's a difference. It's just not comparable to what the difference used to be. I look at all the changes over the years and see huge improvements for unartied people. Some of it does depend on whether you're willing to take advantage of what's available though. For example, as a heavily artied person I can play any class I want and not care about min-maxing. I can be int spec monk for Kai chokes in group even while going for aff-based 1v1 kills and never have to worry about my max hp being too low.
If I was unartied though, I could go tash'la and take robust trait and con spec just for the extra con so my max hp would be roughly what I fight with currently with my arties. I could bother getting runes more often, and use azelhurium if I wanted, too. My sips and regen would still be lower but my max hp would be about the same and my offense would be the exact same (I play shikudo, kill with dispatch and locks, and have unartied staff). It's hard for me to imagine arties making a huge difference in that situation. I don't even have SoA paragon so a lot of the time I don't have that bonus either.
That's just one class/race example though and if you're adamant about playing a class or race that sucks unartied, you'll have bigger problems. I don't think there used to even be as good of options as there are now though.
I was that new player 12-13 years ago going against Manu, Tanris, Kupo, Caelan, Rangor, etc, etc. You know what they said? Suck it up buttercup. The game has gone on for 12-13 years. It is an interesting problem to solve and I hope Achaea solves it.
I agree the more skillful player should win but that will never be the case because each class has it's strengths and weaknesses.