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The Bal'met event

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  • TaggTagg
    And they got puts in their goddamn place
    I wanna grow up to be Busta Rhymes
  • TvistorTvistor
    Ugh, really? But I made a flowchart and everything.
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United States
    Vansittart said:

    Yes, and fascism is bad in a fantasy game because it results in the persecution of minorities in the real world    because fascism is wrong, and you shouldn't put wrong things in a fantasy universe  it will encourage people to be fascist and vote Republican ...

    Oh wait, it isn't.  Shut up Kresslack.

    It's authoritarian, which was my point. Shallam doesn't need to become a mirror image of Mhaldor. So stop being stuch a tart, Vansittart. 


  • TvistorTvistor
    I am not sure how I have managed to disagree with every single one of Vansiperson's posts, from theft to this thread but I have.

    It's not you, baby, it's me.
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    Sothantos said:
    Shallam as Good-Mhaldor would be pointless. It'd just be Mhaldor. Yes, we could take on more militant aspects, but deviating too far from the existing established ideological canon of Good/Light wouldn't make a lot of sense.
    That's the entire point of this event and why they were destroyed...

    Because the organization and its ideals as a whole were not working and  become so bad to the point an entire restart was needed to fix it. If anything I believe attempting to take the concept of "Good and Justice" in a different direction -is- badly needed. It doesnt have to be militant however that is a plausible idea.
  • VansittartVansittart
    Kresslack said:

    I did say authoritarian, to make it more IG proper for you. It's a pretty significant point, seeing as that is what Mhaldor is. So in conclusion, I was saying that Achaea doesn't need another authoritarian city like Mhaldor is. 

    I don't mean to be pointlessly argumentative, honestly, but that's just so simplistic and silly. Hashan, Ashtan, Eleusis and Cyrene are democracies and there is one autocracy - by your logic, Shallam shouldn't be a democracy either. "We already have one of those" is a good argument if it's properly made and what we do have one of already is a good-leaning, pacifist(ish) city which is not outward-looking, nor pro-active in promoting its ideals. Shallam needs to properly perform its factional role, and no-one is really suggesting it does that by aping Mhaldor - that's a straw man argument put about by people who hate the "militant" tag. But it does need to change, and there's a hundred different ways it could achieve that, some of which would be autocratic, some theocratic, democratic or otherwise.
  • XithXith

    Well "New Shallam" is probably the knee-jerk reaction, sort of how ants instantly start rebuilding their hill after you kick it over.

    But part of Mhaldor's problem just recently was that they had so few citizens that they couldn't be important to the world. It was pretty much Ashtan vs. Shallam and everyone else just watch from the sidelines. So I think population displacement between the other 5 cities would fill out everybody's ranks and make for a more dynamic world balance.

    The ones who move into Cyrene will de-neutralize the mountain city and rekindle their anti-Mhaldorness, even serve to militarize it more. The anti-conflict people might then shift to Hashan, and the Hashani who don't want to be the new Cyrene will go to Mhaldor or Ashtan. Other Shallamese will fill out little Eleusis and give the forestal game some meaning again.

    That's one vague hypothesis.

    Alternately, a major denizen city might extend their hand to the refugees. Someone mentioned Arcadia (obvious angelic imagery there). And the city would then ultimately become player-run.

    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • WilhelminaWilhelmina
    @Xith "New Shallam"? I prefer Neo Shallam City.
  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
    edited December 2012
    It's really early, who knows if Shallam will be the only city to fall in this event.  This event has been pretty cool because it has been both bold and unpredictable on many levels we didn't expect.

    I'm fine with rebuilding Shallam/Good city again but we need to leave the crappy stuff about Shallam behind and focus on starting over.  We have a good idea of what works and what doesn't now, let's not repeat the same mistakes.  I rather we be smaller and leaner if it meant everyone had a more similar mindset.  You don't want to actively push the "good" agenda?  Go to Cyrene, it will be far more peaceful.  You can always come back if you decide you want back.  If not, that's fine, good luck (sincerely).  Just don't stay in Shallam 2.0 and then be surprised people are coming up with random reasons to attack/kill you because that's unfortunately just a cost of living in a polarizing city.  
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  • EurulisEurulis
    I'm just going to step in here for a moment and ask. Why are you referring to this supposedly new city as "Shallam 2.0"? The city's gone, we don't exactly know how it will be rebuilt, if it will be rebuilt at all. They could, as previously suggested, possibly radicalize another city.  But regardless of what's happening, people are still saying "Rebuild Shallam".

    Why rebuild something when you can make something new? The old Gods of Shallam are dead or have fled, the old texts of Good fallen into the seas. Deucalion has come to lead a new force for Good. Why would they want to rebuild Shallam around this new deity when many of them (From word on the forums) severely disliked Shallam's old policies? This is their chance to remake the laws and have a clean start. Whatever this new city is, they can build it up to something new and something great.

    I look forward to seeing what this could become!
  • AktillumAktillum Philippines
    I hope New Shallam has my subdivision house.

  • VayneVayne Rhode Island

    Xith said:
    But part of Mhaldor's problem just recently was that they had so few citizens that they couldn't be important to the world. It was pretty much Ashtan vs. Shallam and everyone else just watch from the sidelines. So I think population displacement between the other 5 cities would fill out everybody's ranks and make for a more dynamic world balance.

    The ones who move into Cyrene will de-neutralize the mountain city and rekindle their anti-Mhaldorness, even serve to militarize it more. The anti-conflict people might then shift to Hashan, and the Hashani who don't want to be the new Cyrene will go to Mhaldor or Ashtan. Other Shallamese will fill out little Eleusis and give the forestal game some meaning again.

    That's one vague hypothesis.

    Sorry @Xith, but I think that is a pretty terrible hypothesis. Now I could be all wrong too, but it seems clear to me that Shallam is being given the do over it has so desperately needed and been craving. Thus, I fully expect there to be a new city of Good somewhere in the future which is being nudged in a more zealous direction. I find it hard to imagine any of Shallam's serious players and combatants going to Cyrene, no offense, and I can guarantee you these so called "anti-conflict" people would be sent back to the mountains with a REJECTED stamp on their Hashani applications. I have no intention of letting Twilight, mine, and Ourania's work slip away and let Hashan fall back to being the "neutral" city.

    If there is a more likely scenario, I can see ex-Shallam players defecting to Mhaldor and Eleusis most likely, with maybe a few sneaking off to Ashtan. The less aggressive crowd would be drawn to Cyrene and not vice versa. However, it is quite clear that the core of Shallam is going to stick together and rebuild, although a leaner and meaner city as @Achilles said.
    image
  • DarklyreDarklyre
    Wilhelmina said:
    @Xith "New Shallam"? I prefer Neo Shallam City.

    I prefer Proto Neo New Shallam.




    and if you get the reference for that, you are awesome
  • JaizsurJaizsur
    Panpardus said:
    I guess now is a perfect opportunity to build New Shallam? (insert new city name) up to exactly how people have wanted it for some time.

    For me (yes its only my opinion) they should run it exactly like Mhaldor, make it a righteous city where their are certain things expected.

    You want a truffle -- GTFO - Join elsewhere
    Want to be a care bear - GTFO - Join elsewhere
    You don't want to defend the ideals of the city - GTFO - Join elsewhere
    You get the point.

    Start with the houses, if you want to join new city blah then this is what is going to happen, what you dont want to follow that, sure Oneiros can build you a new house estate in the desert or whereever.  

    The first house leader is told what is to be done, not what they want to do, 

    For those that dont want to be part of a new city they have a choice, join Cyrene a neutral good orientation which is similar to what Shallam was or just go rogue.

    It will be interesting to actually see what happens.
    Honestly, just let Silas be principal in the reconstruction. As much as I worked against him/Shallam I think he would be the best candidate to create a system that you're looking for, he would be well supported by players/divine, and best of all he doesn't take any shit. Frankly he pretty much had that going for Shallam until the "truffles/carebears" marched against him from Candyland.

    If Silas even plays anymore? Who's the most recent former Sultan? idfk.
  • IocunIocun
    Eurulis said:
    Why are you referring to this supposedly new city as "Shallam 2.0"? 
    Mostly because all former citizens of Shallam seem to instantly have been made members of a newly formed high clan with the caliph of Shallam as its leader, and the same happened for all their houses. This makes a tremendous difference. It's much easier to form something new when you first have to induct people, rather than the opposite. Shallam could always have gone more "hardcore" if its citizens had wanted it. Apparently they didn't, so why should it now? Yes, there's Deucalion, but in the end Achaea's politics are very much player-driven (which, incidentally, is one of Achaea's greatest strengths), and I don't think it would be wise to just take this away.

    And don't take me wrong (this is mostly @Azor): I wasn't actually saying that it's a negative thing if whatever comes out of this is just a new version of the old Shallam. I, for one, never felt that it was imperative that Shallam be ultra-militant and fanatical. All I'm saying is that all those who say "now we can make a new Shallam how it's supposed to be" are ignoring the fact that in a player-controlled world like Achaea, you can't easily radicalise an organisation like that if it goes against the general wishes of the (former) populace. I'm saying this in neither a positively or negatively judgemental fashion, but simply as an observation.

    →My Mudlet Scripts

  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
    Eurulis said:
    I'm just going to step in here for a moment and ask. Why are you referring to this supposedly new city as "Shallam 2.0"? The city's gone, we don't exactly know how it will be rebuilt, if it will be rebuilt at all. They could, as previously suggested, possibly radicalize another city.  But regardless of what's happening, people are still saying "Rebuild Shallam".

    Why rebuild something when you can make something new? The old Gods of Shallam are dead or have fled, the old texts of Good fallen into the seas. Deucalion has come to lead a new force for Good. Why would they want to rebuild Shallam around this new deity when many of them (From word on the forums) severely disliked Shallam's old policies? This is their chance to remake the laws and have a clean start. Whatever this new city is, they can build it up to something new and something great.

    I look forward to seeing what this could become!
    We won't necessarily rename it Shallam.  In fact I would encourage naming it something else entirely to emphasis the fresh start (or something in tribute to Miramar, Pentharian, Mithraea).  We will just refer to it as Project Bear Cub for now.
    image
  • TaloniaTalonia
    I wonder to what extent this event could actually take into account the concerns we've expressed here.  Like, who knows, maybe Sarapis will read these conversations expressing disappointment that Shallam got high clans and wasn't forced to figure out the truly loyal people and decide to have Deucalion fight and kill Scyraeneux but then die to Bal'met/Sartan or treachery by Babel/Twilight.  Sarapis just seems to be intent on shaking up the game, which is great.
  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
    I believe they try to predict how we will react in advance but leave enough flexibility to adjust Project Bear Cub's future as it develops.  
    image
  • BlujixapugBlujixapug
    New Shallam
    *New Hope
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  • NellaundraNellaundra
    Oi.

    No corrupting Cyrene.
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  • SiggeSigge
    Which makes me wonder how Cyrene may end up being affected by all of this? whats the Pro's/Con's of Cyrene (I mean the serious stuff like in Shallam, not the snugglers, mudsecksors, etc)?
  • XithXith
    Vayne said:

    Xith said:
    But part of Mhaldor's problem just recently was that they had so few citizens that they couldn't be important to the world. It was pretty much Ashtan vs. Shallam and everyone else just watch from the sidelines. So I think population displacement between the other 5 cities would fill out everybody's ranks and make for a more dynamic world balance.

    The ones who move into Cyrene will de-neutralize the mountain city and rekindle their anti-Mhaldorness, even serve to militarize it more. The anti-conflict people might then shift to Hashan, and the Hashani who don't want to be the new Cyrene will go to Mhaldor or Ashtan. Other Shallamese will fill out little Eleusis and give the forestal game some meaning again.

    That's one vague hypothesis.

    Sorry @Xith, but I think that is a pretty terrible hypothesis. Now I could be all wrong too, but it seems clear to me that Shallam is being given the do over it has so desperately needed and been craving. Thus, I fully expect there to be a new city of Good somewhere in the future which is being nudged in a more zealous direction. I find it hard to imagine any of Shallam's serious players and combatants going to Cyrene, no offense, and I can guarantee you these so called "anti-conflict" people would be sent back to the mountains with a REJECTED stamp on their Hashani applications. I have no intention of letting Twilight, mine, and Ourania's work slip away and let Hashan fall back to being the "neutral" city.

    If there is a more likely scenario, I can see ex-Shallam players defecting to Mhaldor and Eleusis most likely, with maybe a few sneaking off to Ashtan. The less aggressive crowd would be drawn to Cyrene and not vice versa. However, it is quite clear that the core of Shallam is going to stick together and rebuild, although a leaner and meaner city as @Achilles said.

    I did say vague. :P
    Main point wasn't who goes where, just that there would be displacement. And I opted for the scenario that wouldn't involve Mhaldor or Ashtan accepting Shallamese, cause we won't.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • AchillesAchilles Los Angeles
    And I opted for the scenario that wouldn't involve Mhaldor or Ashtan accepting Shallamese, cause we won't.
    Yea,I heard Ashtan never does that.  
    image
  • AsmodronAsmodron
    soooo is there gonna be an event today at serenade also or should I just go sleep?
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