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Ship Changes!

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  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,172 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2015
    If anyone has the energy left it would be interesting to see a side be side comparison of the pros and cons for each stance. I can see the 'against prisms' give a few reasons to support but not a lot for the 'for prisms' who's main point is everyone should be accessible at all times. I'd like to here from they vocally for what they'd do once they prismed onto a ship.

    I personally am against prisming and was glad it was changed back. For all the finger pointing that people just use their ship to hide in or afk there are also people who use it to bolster their roles.

    The cabin of my ship is Tahquil's home. It's a very personal space and I use it as an office and home. With prisming I wouldn't feel comfortable going into that room at all. If that room was on the mainland at least I could totem up and buy no prism room upgrade. Maybe if these two options were open to ships there would be less mouth frothing.


    Shirszae
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Gamden said:

    Daeir said:
    It isn't about PK or targets or whatever, it is about a sizable portion of the playerbase using ships as a means of quasi-instanced impenetrable housing 
    Shut it or bring considerable constructive opinions to the table. I have 130 people working for me, if someone acting like you...first off ,they'll be out of my office under 2 seconds, secondly their opinions get the least noticed.
    I pity your staff, if they're subordinate to a person that can only resort to personal attacks as a means of conveying any sort of validity to their disagreement.

    Regardless, Blujixapug and Kiet have it pretty spot on with what I'm trying to convey. Instanced safehousing in ANY paradigm causes this sort of effect, wherein the world suffers for its presence. Interaction is inherently stifled, and people have no reason to idle or generally linger anywhere where there is inherent risk to doing so. I mean, if you can just board a ship and be perfectly safe, why would you? There's no risk, and all the reward. This isn't the fault of any particular individual for choosing this option - it is clearly the superior one, and you'd be nuts not to use it. There is currently no reason for any actually interesting emergent gameplay in that regard, as why bother involving anyone else when you may simply retreat to a ship for a nominal gold cost and be untouchable?

    Why do things like hire a group of people to patrol an area and secure it for you, or consult with a local groved forestal for use of their grove as a covert meeting area? Why do things like cultivate relationships with the guilds and organizations and individuals responsible for assassinations and theft in order to give yourself a modicum of protection?

    I understand that giving up these havens is a big deal, especially if you're a player that isn't hugely into combat or indulging troublemakers or anything that might pose loss and inconvenience to your character. That's fine. But what I wish people would understand is that perhaps allowing these havens to continue is not a good thing for the game. It doesn't make you a terrible person for using them, and I've never implied anything to that end, even if people seem to think that I have.

    Providing means of sanctuary is important, and I am not suggesting that someone be unsafe or at risk 100% all of the time, but that method of sanctuary MUST come from some sort of organic means, not from as I have said earlier, a tolerated mechanical oversight in the form of instanced housing. Using city safezones/guardstacks is fine, as are House estates and Order sanctums, appropriately upgraded subdivision housing, inns, privacy rooms and the like, all of these things bear presence and standing in the actual world itself, and present players using them for a reprieve as still available for interaction, and still contributing to the atmosphere of the world just by being there.

    The resistance to the abolishment of this concept is ultimately harmful for the game, in my eyes. That is all I want to convey.
    MorsulTharvisEthoas
  • GamdenGamden Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Ill tell them some random guy from a text game pities them..they'll be elated!

    At least you responded more constructive and orderly..thanx

  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Really? Have you listened to Daeir across two threads ranting and calling people names? Calling people fucks, acting like Sarapis and the admins have no idea what's good for their game, amongst other things. His last post was probably the most calm he's been other than saying he pities Gamden's staff.

    Makes me ever wonder what happened to what he said in this thread: http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/4016/an-epiphany-no-not-the-player
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think this has all gone way out of proportion and people need to calm the fuck down and stop having hysterics over every little change. Jesus, if you can't approach things rationally, then get a little Victorian and then come back when you feel better.

    There've been occasions when admin have gone ahead with a change so drastic that shit just doesn't work without tweaking. When they first introduced autoclass, I repeatedly pushed for the newbie tour to at least prioritise joining a Guild/House first because if given the option, nobody would join a House because of all the negative nancies who allowed their bitterness to become terrible influence on new players. When Houses had no class limitations, they clashed over the overlapping classes, especially when some Houses chose to restrict the classes as per what made RP sense and others simply opened their doors for every and any class. 

    Call it 'emergent gameplay' or whatever you like, sometimes problems arise from unseen directions, and they don't 'seem' like problems until everyone is doing it or the rock's rolled far down enough that it causes other kinds of problems. 

    Was autoclass well received from an organisational point of view? I'm going to say no. It caused us no end of headaches when it first appeared and you should have seen the level of whining and outrage. People actually quite for realz, not just huff and threaten to quit. Could we ever go back to the days of organisationally locked classes? No, we couldn't, but autoclass would never have functioned the way it does now without all the gradual tweaks that admin have made along the way. The same goes for any dynamic or drastic change.

    If admin has a fault, it's that sometimes they introduce shit without seeming to take into account the 'time to penis', it's like they just decide to yolo it and then make adjustments as they go along. Maybe it's because they have more faith in humanity and the general playerbase than I do.  The way I see it, it doesn't hurt to let things happen and work through the teething problems as they arise. Whatever it is, whenever things prove to be a problem, admin usually come up with a fix. Usually. Sometimes.


    Ethoas
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If you think I'm afraid to call out someone I'm close to on things they're doing or that I disagree with, then you would be very sadly mistaken.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 4,844 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Every post isn't about you @Kayeil ;


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    MorsulDalranTharvisDaeir
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,720 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    *pat* 

    MorsulDalran
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Atalkez said:
    Every post isn't about you @Kayeil ;
    Obviously he was referring to Gamden. Why don't you mind your own business and find something better to do than speak to me? I think I've made it clear over the course of many months I want nothing to do with you.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • AesiAesi Member Posts: 1,222 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited November 2015
    Lock time? This, I think we can all agree, has just turned toxic.

    clarity: not pointed at any one person, just overall tone
    Atalkez
  • SiduriSiduri Member Posts: 1,552 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Just pitching in because @Kez makes a good point. I will typically be in Achaea at all time of the day unless I'm sleeping. That includes classes, that includes work to some extent:

    I won't raid, won't defend, won't do anything that requires my character to walk into danger and stop in the middle of doing whatever she was doing because a customer walked in the store. However, I've been online, and available to discuss and lead a House for a good period of time, by giving insight and timely guidance to my officers.

    Sure, I lost the position because midterms happened to coincide with Deucalion's return and an increased pressure to work faster/more on the field at the same time where RL forced me to slow down. It sucks, but if you ask anyone in my House, they're pretty much all going to tell you my AFK contribution has been more weighty than a lot of people's.

    Ships made this possible.

    image
    Kayeil
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaMember Posts: 2,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think the most elegant solution to safe idling w/o ships is "AFK Fire." Like Divine Fire, but toggle on/off for situational AFK invulnerability:
    The Ring of Portals (indoors).
    You have a strong sense that READ SIGN would be a good idea. A sign floats above
    the ground here. A furry little humgii sits here, a hungry expression in his
    wide eyes. A cherrywood chair covered in pink satin embroidered with a red letter
    J and a gold plaque is here. An oak chair covered in pale blue velvet and a deep
    blue monogrammed R with a gold plaque is here. A bronze-plated couch with a
    covering of red velvet is here. Juliet, the Guide is here, wreathed in a palpable
    aura of I-Really-Can't-Be-Bothered-Atm-So-Shoo!.
    You see exits leading north, east, south, and west.
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Siduri said:
    Just pitching in because @Kez makes a good point. I will typically be in Achaea at all time of the day unless I'm sleeping. That includes classes, that includes work to some extent:

    I won't raid, won't defend, won't do anything that requires my character to walk into danger and stop in the middle of doing whatever she was doing because a customer walked in the store. However, I've been online, and available to discuss and lead a House for a good period of time, by giving insight and timely guidance to my officers.

    Sure, I lost the position because midterms happened to coincide with Deucalion's return and an increased pressure to work faster/more on the field at the same time where RL forced me to slow down. It sucks, but if you ask anyone in my House, they're pretty much all going to tell you my AFK contribution has been more weighty than a lot of people's.

    Ships made this possible.
    Wouldn't all of this been just as possible and a lot more enriching in a subdivision or House hall room though? 
    image
  • GamdenGamden Member Posts: 225 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Trey said:
    Gamden, not that I'm invested at all in either side of this argument, but you -are- acting like a twat.
    You just invested in it, welcome in the ring
    Ill put that in my pocket and nibble it the day I care about this comment

    Back on track, I really dont see any problem with Prism subjected to combat related things..Did you sink a ship?Did you kill your arch nemesis?Boom ..i can prism to you for the next 10 min, even on your ship.

    Something like that,Lets keep the AFK off the streets


  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,172 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Genius.
  • KietKiet Member Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    imo the most elegant solution is to run more riddles so people will be less inclined to afk
    Maybe this time I won't waste my boons on account of no longer being a teenager with no clue
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaMember Posts: 2,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I haven't seen a boon since Clementius was around

    And with more riddles, maybe people will remember that someone ELSE already holds claim to the "Rory" nickname, and promptly gtfo of here with that aurora bs
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,175 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Perhaps we should just go back to the "no AFK" rules that were in place when I started playing, over a decade ago.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    DaeirKyrraAustereAntidas
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Despite AFKing constantly myself, I'd probably agree with the implementation of such a thing.
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2015
    Thats probably one of the worst things you could do, seeing as everyone afks to an extent. At least some people do try and manage to have small interactions/answer tells/etc while mostly busy with something else, and that is much better than the alternative of just having the maybe ten online cats that never afk at all. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Kayeil
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2015
    disable config timeout 0, cap to timeout at 30. (edit: though this would require the possibility to at least check INV while worm cancelling)
    should be easy enough to track people who just have a loop that continuously does sendGMCP("Core.KeepAlive") without any real other actions.
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

    Daeir
  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tharvis said:
    disable config timeout 0, cap to timeout at 30. (edit: though this would require the possibility to at least check INV while worm cancelling)
    should be easy enough to track people who just have a loop that continuously does sendGMCP("Core.KeepAlive") without any real other actions.
    People could bypass that in all manners of ways. Even just making a timer to trigger every five or so minute. To send some random tell. To walk back and forth, or say something inane. I much rather it the way it is now.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2015
    Shirszae said:
    Tharvis said:
    disable config timeout 0, cap to timeout at 30. (edit: though this would require the possibility to at least check INV while worm cancelling)
    should be easy enough to track people who just have a loop that continuously does sendGMCP("Core.KeepAlive") without any real other actions.
    People could bypass that in all manners of ways. Even just making a timer to trigger every five or so minute. To send some random tell. To walk back and forth, or say something inane. I much rather it the way it is now.
    if it's a static pattern that loops every static interval (i.e. action never changes, interval never changes), it'd be relatively easily tracked and with the right algorithm, relatively easily marked for review.
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,103 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Hardly worth it anyway.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Kayeil
This discussion has been closed.