Ship Changes!

Austere

I am not going to lie, the day the no afk rule changed, I frowned.  It was such a good rule, for many reasons, and the ability to journal out (no combat initiated of course) left options for oh shit moments.  People that sit around afk constantly are my greatest cause of rage.  Nothing pisses me off more than sending a tell or say, trying to roleplay,  trying to raid, or just trying to promote activity, just for someone to ignore me for the next ten minutes.  The usual response of "Sorry, was afk" is bullshit.  Crap like that used to get you robbed blind.  Ships are nothing more than an extension of that.  It's a prism, people.  If you get prismed to, and are alert,  you either allowed it,  or you should go play 52 pickup (its easier to understand the principals). Prism invasion is for afk people only.  There is legit no reason you should ever be prismed to against your will on a ship.  Every ship is more than a single room.  Just move.  Otherwise, if you're gonna be afk, log out/journal. Stop taking up server space while you play the new call of duty or whatever crap it is.  

#afk-openpk

Edit: sorry Lorielan, been typing that for a while.  Hard to play forums at work on Friday 

Sena

Austere said:

There is legit no reason you should ever be prismed to against your will on a ship.  Every ship is more than a single room.  Just move.

If you have multiple prismers (2 is generally enough for people who aren't expecting it) staggering their prism attempts against someone with a limited number of rooms, you can have a very high chance of getting in even when the target is paying attention and moving.

Austere

Sena said:

Austere said:

There is legit no reason you should ever be prismed to against your will on a ship.  Every ship is more than a single room.  Just move.

If you have multiple prismers (2 is generally enough for people who aren't expecting it) staggering their prism attempts against someone with a limited number of rooms, you can have a very high chance of getting in even when the target is paying attention and moving.

So now we need multiple prisms, knowledge of who is on a ship, and where the ship is located.  My point stands.  Just undock the ship at that point and use it for sailing...

Aesi

Austere said:

Sena said:

Austere said:

There is legit no reason you should ever be prismed to against your will on a ship.  Every ship is more than a single room.  Just move.

If you have multiple prismers (2 is generally enough for people who aren't expecting it) staggering their prism attempts against someone with a limited number of rooms, you can have a very high chance of getting in even when the target is paying attention and moving.

So now we need multiple prisms, knowledge of who is on a ship, and where the ship is located.  My point stands.  Just undock the ship at that point and use it for sailing...

Does anyone else get the feeling that most people don't care that these things float?

Sena

Austere said:

So now we need multiple prisms, knowledge of who is on a ship, and where the ship is located.  My point stands.

I don't think that's a stretch at all. If the target is a specific person (rather than just wanting to break into any ship you can), then "knowledge of who is on a ship" is irrelevant, and there's a pretty small number of mainland harbours to check (and most people just use Tasur'ke or Shastaan, so checking those two will usually be all you need). Finding a friend to help you get onto the ship doesn't seem like a very daunting task either.

Austere

Sena said:

Austere said:

So now we need multiple prisms, knowledge of who is on a ship, and where the ship is located.  My point stands.

I don't think that's a stretch at all. If the target is a specific person (rather than just wanting to break into any ship you can), then "knowledge of who is on a ship" is irrelevant, and there's a pretty small number of mainland harbours to check (and most people just use Tasur'ke or Shastaan, so checking those two will usually be all you need). Finding a friend to help you get onto the ship doesn't seem like a very daunting task either.

Don't forget that you have to have a ship (and a good enough captain to sink) incase they decide to flee on the ship, as well as someone with hinder incase they disembark and try to instant run. ..at this point, though,  why SHOULD this person live.  Obviously I am looking at it from a pk perspective. If it's just casual infiltration and theft, just disembark.

There is three options to prevent this that are readily available to everyone.  This is not counting gare, astral, blackwind, refuge, and phase. Deliver/empress on disembark if you have friends.  Earring to bypass room hinder. It just seems like a lot of work to kill one person.  

Morlew

Forgive my ignorance, but is there no way to force your way onto another ship on the open seas? Such as boarding?

I am used to pen & paper systems of how ship systems work, but they (almost) always give you the option to force yourself onto an enemy vessel.

Antidas

Morlew said:

Forgive my ignorance, but is there no way to force your way onto another ship on the open seas? Such as boarding?

I am used to pen & paper systems of how ship systems work, but they (almost) always give you the option to force yourself onto an enemy vessel.

Nothing to forgive! You can forceboard a ship while both are at sea, but there is no way to force your way onto a ship that is docked in a harbor; thats really the complaint here

Morlew

Antidas said:

Morlew said:

Forgive my ignorance, but is there no way to force your way onto another ship on the open seas? Such as boarding?

I am used to pen & paper systems of how ship systems work, but they (almost) always give you the option to force yourself onto an enemy vessel.

Nothing to forgive! You can forceboard a ship while both are at sea, but there is no way to force your way onto a ship that is docked in a harbor; thats really the complaint here

I see. That's good, then. From what I've read so far I had come to believe that prism tattoos were the only way to force your way onto a ship.

Of course, I also see little reason to want to board a docked vessel save for reasons already mentioned (someone dodging cause, for example). Sure, using a docked ship as a safe meeting place might be lame, but at the same time a harbor seems to count as a sort of "qq" for the ship. I don't see a real problem with shops being safe when you can't do anything else with it at that point.

Jacen

What if we just said that prisming onto a ship is an aggressive act and requires RP justification?

Ultimately, what the admin first gave us, and what a lot of people want, is a paradigm shift regarding ships, and that isn't going to come easy. I'm in the camp that thinks it's necessary, but it's going to be hard to swallow for those that don't want it.

Aerek

I don't particularly disagree with anything @Austere has said, but I do have to call out the false dichotomy that often springs up about prisms.

Yes, stopping a prism is as easy as moving, but that also interrupts anything you were doing. If you're doing a ritual in a House hall, or having an actual interaction with someone on a ship or personal estate, you can all move to stop the prism, but your ritual or family get-together is over until you all leave or the offender gets bored, and that puts all the power into the offender's hands.

It's just something that shouldn't swing entirely one way or the other. Ships shouldn't be impenetrable, but neither should they be vulnerable. Prism-proof upgrades on ships, I think, split the difference, provided something like Radiance still works to actually force you off the ship if you the world has a legitimate reason to come after you.

Krypton

If the fuckin' legless Little Mermaid could infiltrate a ship, then Gods dammit, we ALL should!

Aesi

Krypton said:

If the fuckin' legless Little Mermaid could infiltrate a ship, then Gods dammit, we ALL should!

I donno, that ariel is one shady ho.

Kez

That ship was not docked  

Valkyn

No prism is currently around a million gold per room out of subs. That's a massive cost to pay for something we expected our ships to do when we bought them.

Letting radiance work on ships seems reasonable, it already works for people in beds. So long as there has to be actual justification for hunting that person down, and not just loltheft/slaughtering crew that took hundreds of hours to train it sounds fine.

I also really like the idea of the figurehead cost for shipreturn, as long as it's not massive. Similar amount to most seaspells would seem reasonable, maybe a bit more - 200?

Skye

My belief was that admin would have addressed all these points systematically. Many experienced mariners have already pointed out the ridiculousness of having to train a crew from scratch by sailing around in circles (mind you, trades help for like, the first 4 levels). They already got rid of crew endurance, the irritation of having to train your crew in such a tedious manner would probably have been next.

If we're talking about ship infiltration, I preferred prisms that at least still required *you* to be on the ship, than say... grappling their way batman style up the side of the ship and breaking into your vessel with or without your presence. There are always worse options, people.

Trevize

Skye said:

My belief was that admin would have addressed all these points systematically. Many experienced mariners have already pointed out the ridiculousness of having to train a crew from scratch by sailing around in circles (mind you, trades help for like, the first 4 levels). They already got rid of crew endurance, the irritation of having to train your crew in such a tedious manner would probably have been next.

If we're talking about ship infiltration, I preferred prisms that at least still required *you* to be on the ship, than say... grappling their way batman style up the side of the ship and breaking into your vessel with or without your presence. There are always worse options, people.

I'm honestly not hugely stressed about prism/whatever - I'm just excited that sea monsters were mentioned.

Ship bashing ftw. Loved it in Lusty (years ago, I don't even know if it still exists), love EVE, love Black Flag...

Ship pvp may be great, but I would -kill- for some ship PVE. GROUP ship PVE would be best. A full crew out to hunt moby dick Fluffy. Not all them come back alive, but it was worth it. Ah, the stories.

Elowin

I've never seen a sea monster nor a citadel, and I so want to.

Saeva

The only time I have sunk to date was because of a gargantuan anglerfish! O.o
Scary!

Sarapis

One of the improvements behind the scenes is pathfinding AI for creatures/ships on the high seas, apropos to the above few posts...

Elowin

Well! Hope I don't end up eating my word later.

Trevize

Sarapis said:

One of the improvements behind the scenes is pathfinding AI for creatures/ships on the high seas, apropos to the above few posts...

(This also applies to @tecton and company)

Greys

I hadn't realized how rare they were (requiring admin(s) to actually run it). The one time fight we had was really awesome. Was disappointed couldn't directly thank the Someone(s) responsible.

Blujixapug

Shipreturn needed to be nerfed so that they could make islands worthwhile in terms of gold/exp/other rewards, balancing those payouts to account for sailing time. Why would anyone sail to Tapoa right now? So I'm disappointed that the shipreturn nerf was reversed - but given how many unforeseen consequences popped up, I'm sure reverting shipreturn was easier than whacking all those moles.

Ships in harbours probably shouldn't be saferooms, but it doesn't really matter. There are no spillover consequences - unlike with shipreturn. You don't have to make ships prismable to balance piracy, or seamonster battles, or deepsea fishing. (Yes it affects things like people taking event items and sitting on ships, or Daes-ing a House to become Sapience's Most Wanted and then sitting safe on a ship, but that's all part of the same central issue.) It's its own isolated issue, and it can be either changed or left alone, in a vacuum.

I'm looking forward to what else they have in store for the second batch of changes. Hopefully some cool changes to seamonsters, city naval culture and piracy in an organisational context, islands and Meropis becoming more enticing for repeat visits, and deepsea fishing being replaced with something less mindless and AFK-inducingly script-based. I also noticed that if you take the first letter of every sentence in the initial Announce post (4449), you get the letters 'PRIATECLSAS'. It's like an anagram or something? Weird!

Skye

I BELIEVED YOU HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO ME?! WHY BLUJI WHY

Trevize

Blujixapug said:

I also noticed that if you take the first letter of every sentence in the initial Announce post (4449), you get the letters 'PRIATECLSAS'. It's like an anagram or something? Weird!

Special Star.

Clearly we're getting ninjas.

Valkyn

I would love to see more sea creatures on the ocean, but what I'd really love is if you didn't lose cargo if you sank. Without that, I'd be much more inclined to try to stay and fight. Raising a ship and buying more tokens is one thing, losing 200k-300k of cargo is quite another.

Ognog

The prism to ships issue isn't one I feel strongly about either way, but I will say this ....

There was once a time when we had to be always on our toes lest a cunning thief snap his fingers or flick a card and you'd find yourself handing over all kinds of precious items. I certainly don't miss the potential to lose unique items like journals, but I do miss the heart pounding terror a good theft attempt would induce. It was both awful and invigorating at the same time. That feeling is largely gone from the game now. I no longer fear thieves at all. The closest I get is when my ship is grappled by a pirate.

Achaea is a world of high drama, and I must confess a part of me would enjoy the drama prisms to docked ships, house halls, and more powerful theft methods would bring.

As far as the shipreturn issue is concerned, it seems to me that return to Parthren Gare from islands should be removed. At least that way use of a docked ship as a quick way to reach an island would be limited by token of Charybdis cooldowns.

Kyrra

Ognog said:

As far as the shipreturn issue is concerned, it seems to me that return to Parthren Gare from islands should be removed. 

I'll object to this since my wings cost me 15k credits and a lot of the functionality of having island exits is removed if I can no longer Gare back to the mainland.

Otherwise, I might as well move my ship to Ashtan harbour and just use shipreturn... 

Cooper

Kyrra said:

Ognog said:

As far as the shipreturn issue is concerned, it seems to me that return to Parthren Gare from islands should be removed. 

I'll object to this since my wings cost me 15k credits and a lot of the functionality of having island exits is removed if I can no longer Gare back to the mainland.

Otherwise, I might as well move my ship to Ashtan harbour and just use shipreturn... 

That's not how that works. Your wings function 100% the same - and I definitely recall you saying you would have bought them even if you couldn't use island/off plane/off continent exits.