Mining and Legions

Inuad

Atalkez said:

Okay so a few thoughts on the system as it sits. First and foremost I think it's a great addition to the game, and was just talking to someone the other night about having something resource intensive being something I would like to see.

1 - Lack of actual comms to produce the mines. Making Iron one of the two required commodities has made Iron completely vanish from -all- comm markets in the game and make the price nearly triple in just over an hour. While this is probably intended, it inherently led to people with a huge cache of commodities dominating anyone else that even tried. Spending the Iron to get a Mine going is pretty expensive now that everything has settled a bit more, so it leads to the "haves" dominating the "have-nots", which may not really be an issue going forward, except for point 2.

2 - There is no way for someone that opens a small mine, to realistically level their miners/defenders/attacker enough over the said "haves", because a Large mine is going to net more experience than a Medium or Small mine. So, in two weeks Ahmet and Silas will be untouchable by anyone else because their far and away more experienced crews. This is also an issue considering you can't even level a soldier -without- a mine. See point 1 about getting a mine. So realistically taking a stronghold, or even a mine, is going to be a very hard thing to actually manage.

3 - Scarcity of mines. Most of the mines were taken up within about 30 minutes of the system being implemented. Leaving those that had no chance to purchase the needed commodities (logged out, etc) or couldn't find them, sorely behind in the "race" for first. As of now, I just walked most of the strongholds and out of the ~40 rooms available for mines, there may be 1 mine per area that's not taken up. See point 2 as to why this is an issue. Once the mine is taken, there is no way to take it over without...having a mine. Seems to be a flaw in the system in my opinion. If you weren't here to start up when everyone else did, you're essentially screwed in regards to actually getting a mine and leveling your people.

Just my observations!

As to point one, as I mentioned in another thread, the total GLOBAL output of iron over the course of a RL DAY is ~744. It's possible that these rates were adjusted between the time I surveyed all the shops and now, but based on general commodity hunting that doesn't seem to be the case.

So based on that fact, aside from current rift totals and city totals, the maximum possible constructable mines in a given RL day is 9 small. Which doesn't even account for city upkeep costs, ship weapon costs, or forging.

Presuming you are able to acquire the necessary iron, the fact that random new lodes appear with time would potentially allow latecomers to have a chance at an iron mine.

However, your second point means that even if you are able to set up a mine later, it can easily be taken by someone who had a head start on you. There doesn't seem to be a realistic way to close that gap, except perhaps crossing your fingers that the top dogs wipe each other out and have to start from square one.

To your third point: yes, there is a scarcity of lode locations. However, they were not all immediately taken. I also expect that additional mining locations will be added at some point in the future (Meropis seems like it would have quite a few good locations for mines).

Inuad

Siduri said:

So far, I've gotten lucky, but my mines are somewhat small because of a lack of comms. My men will level up less, and it won't be long that I'll be completely excluded from the race. That's somewhat sad.

Suggestions:
1) Allow armies to gain experience in battle (defensive and offensive) on top of by guarding the mines. That'll give wandering armies and stronghold garrisons a chance to level up too.

I feel that stronghold garrisons should also receive experience and level up for simply being deployed. I don't see any particular reason why soldiers deployed in a stronghold would stagnate in experience/training while ones deployed in a mine would not.

Dortheron

Silas said:

Message #473        Sent by Achaea

7/16/23:25 1 a round, purple gemstone and 190 coal was transferred from your mine to your inventory. This was after the local stronghold took a 5% tithe of 10 coal.

You're all going to be eating a little piece of me from now on.

Do you only see the gemstone when the minerals are retrieved from storage @Silas, or do you see it in your mine list in score?

Siduri

Inuad said:

Siduri said:

So far, I've gotten lucky, but my mines are somewhat small because of a lack of comms. My men will level up less, and it won't be long that I'll be completely excluded from the race. That's somewhat sad.

Suggestions:
1) Allow armies to gain experience in battle (defensive and offensive) on top of by guarding the mines. That'll give wandering armies and stronghold garrisons a chance to level up too.

I feel that stronghold garrisons should also receive experience and level up for simply being deployed. I don't see any particular reason why soldiers deployed in a stronghold would stagnate in experience/training while ones deployed in a mine would not.

Completely agreed, too. It's the same logic, but my issue is that experience ticks with mining output, and strongholds would need another tick mechanic. But would be most logical.

Inuad

Siduri said:

Inuad said:

Siduri said:

So far, I've gotten lucky, but my mines are somewhat small because of a lack of comms. My men will level up less, and it won't be long that I'll be completely excluded from the race. That's somewhat sad.

Suggestions:
1) Allow armies to gain experience in battle (defensive and offensive) on top of by guarding the mines. That'll give wandering armies and stronghold garrisons a chance to level up too.

I feel that stronghold garrisons should also receive experience and level up for simply being deployed. I don't see any particular reason why soldiers deployed in a stronghold would stagnate in experience/training while ones deployed in a mine would not.

Completely agreed, too. It's the same logic, but my issue is that experience ticks with mining output, and strongholds would need another tick mechanic. But would be most logical.

All mine related things (output, costs) seem to be based on a global tick. I'm not sure, but it seems like it would not be that difficult to apply the same tick to strongholds for soldier experience.

Greys

Basically, those with iron are going to want to hoard it and starve everyone else out of their iron supplies once the village commshops go out.

Ahmet

Atalkez said:

Ahmet said:

@Sarapis @Tecton is it whoever mines it first, or whoever claims it first? In other words, can I safely go to sleep tonight or am I going to the nearest convenience store and buying two of the largest red bulls they have?

Not sure what your concern is. There are only two people that even have a chance of taking a mine from you, and their soldiers are being used to defend their mines.

I meant more I mine a round purple someone else mines a round purple and claims it first.

EDIT: I was one of the first with a mine out and all of my guys are still lvl 1, so, nobody's really attacking shit right now.

Atalkez

Ahmet said:

Atalkez said:

Ahmet said:

@Sarapis @Tecton is it whoever mines it first, or whoever claims it first? In other words, can I safely go to sleep tonight or am I going to the nearest convenience store and buying two of the largest red bulls they have?

Not sure what your concern is. There are only two people that even have a chance of taking a mine from you, and their soldiers are being used to defend their mines.

I meant more I mine a round purple someone else mines a round purple and claims it first.

EDIT: I was one of the first with a mine out and all of my guys are still lvl 1, so, nobody's really attacking shit right now.

Oh, that makes sense. Tecton cleared that up for you, so disaster averted.

Yeah there are no attacks on anyone, and I doubt there will be for the first 2-3 days of the system.

Dochitha

Seriously, spent few Ks prospecting, no luck. Is it the end of it?

Krypton

Ahmet said:

Krypton said:

I just realized if I discover a rare gem, it will be called Kryptonite

IT MUST BE DONE

Get me some iron then...

Shirszae

I feel like it is a shame there are no mines on any islands.

Telendrieth

Found one of the buggers. Seems to have already been found by Draekar, but it was his second, so who knows!

02:29:52 Message #793 Sent by Achaea

02:29:52 7/17/6:27 1 a strange yellow mineral and 207 impure ice was transferred from your mine to your inventory. This was after the local stronghold took a 5% tithe of 10 impure ice.

Aaand, here is it's description!

The yellows of this chalky mineral vary in a strange fashion. No trick of the light nor patterning is readily apparent but the stone shifts through the range from bright sunshine colours into sickly pale hues seemingly without prompt or cause.

It weighs 0 ounce(s).

Ruth

A bit concerned that the construction of the mines are using wood, which is 2:1 what is needed for housing room credits.

- Can people keep a mine alive by putting one miner inside and three level 1 armies at the entrance? Does it just mean that their mining yields will come through slower?

Bronislav

Yeah, the biggest issues have been "more iron", and "more prospecting locations". I know that there's kind of a soft limit insofar as how many mines one can maintain at once - you can only have 1000 people in your Legion! - as it stands now, it may as well be non-existent. Very specific people have control over very specific mines, and you'd better believe they'll have a stranglehold on things unless it's expanded or if things changed.

I'm also not relishing the prospect (ha!) of losing a crap-ton of guards (and, therefore, time and gold) when someone feels like griefing me out of the investment. I hope things balance out soon, because hey, I'm in.  

Ahmet

Seems to me like it would be better all around if things moved quite a bit faster than they do now. Faster clearing of mines, faster finding of new nodes would allow more people to get their foot in the door, so to speak, and would cut down on the absolute domination of the mines and such.

Trey

Morthif said:

Nice Starship Troopers reference you got there

Would you like to know more?

Ahmet

Ahmethil Opaline. It must be so.

Sarathai

Bronislav said:

Yeah, the biggest issues have been "more iron", and "more prospecting locations". I know that there's kind of a soft limit insofar as how many mines one can maintain at once - you can only have 1000 people in your Legion! - as it stands now, it may as well be non-existent. Very specific people have control over very specific mines, and you'd better believe they'll have a stranglehold on things unless it's expanded or if things changed.

Concur. I've just gone prowling around the stronghold locations, and I didn't find any unused lodes. Even went up to the Fissure of Echoes, largely in the hope that it'd be less-trafficked (also, @Tharvis controlling both northern strongholds, hah!). At the Fissure and Tundra, I only saw one mine between both, compared with several per stronghold down on the mainland.

Also, how long does it take for new lodes to spawn? I hope it isn't reliant on current lodes being depleted.

Ruth

I think it is dependent on current lodes being depleted. After being mined out, the mines will close and let's hope your investment of wood and iron pays out! I don't think it will, though. Iron will still be in so much shortage since it's one of the top 5 desired comms.

Telendrieth

Hrm, so here's another.

03:41:42 Message #794 Sent by Achaea

03:41:42 7/17/7:24 1 a small fragment of a metallic mineral and 419 gold ore was transferred from your mine to your inventory. This was after the local stronghold took a 5% tithe of 22 gold ore.

and the description..

03:42:21 This small fragment of metal has seemingly been shaved off of a greater whole, and is extremely thin. It possesses no particular colour.

03:42:21 It weighs 0 ounce(s).

So.. for the naming thing, do we eat them, or hold them so they know it?

Dochitha

Does breaking into mines and stronghold anything to do with granting PK rights to the defender?

Xer

a chunk of a red, flaky mineral

Anyone else get it, or am I the first? 

EDIT: "Eat mineral" - "You eat an argentum flake." 

Wrong mineral Xer... Wrong mineral.

You eat a chunk of a red, flaky mineral and feel your healing system ramp up.

Nothing shows up on 'DEFENCES' - I'm not exactly sure what it does. Time to try different things.

It's definitely health regen.

Atalkez

I issued myself asking that question, waiting on a response.

Veldrin

Dochitha said:

Does breaking into mines and stronghold anything to do with granting PK rights to the defender?

Probably not outside the 'you broke into my stuff and stole my stuff, so now I got RP justification to punch you in da face'


Also I feel like you should be able to see if there's any nodes before prospecting, so you can see if there's anything in the room without spending 100 gold (cause it can very quickly run up), but if you want to see what it is/be able to build a mine? you have to prospect to see wtf it actually is.

Melodie

The help file calls them minerals, but just to be clear: Do the gemstones/stones also count as these rare "minerals"? Or are those something else entirely?

Edit:

Message #10158      Sent by Achaea

7/17/8:34 1 a round, purple gemstone, 1 a sky blue translucent stone, and 852 carbon was transferred from your mine to your inventory. This was after the local stronghold took a 5% tithe of 44 carbon.

Gamden

Will there become more lodes available??
Cause of GMT+ F*k ME i lost out

Melodie

Also additionally, I issue'd about this already but:

You eat a round, purple gemstone but nothing happens.

Did I do something wrong? Do I get my gemstone back if something went wrong?

Also descriptions because descriptions.

a round, purple gemstone
Well polished and perfectly rounded, this precious stone bears deep, amethyst hues. Gleaming in whatever light is available, the gem casts a faint purple aurora to reflect about itself, imparting its generous hue to its surroundings.
It weighs 0 ounce(s).

a sky blue translucent stone

Translucent and glassy, but incredibly durable, this stone shines brightly when given the faintest of light. A bright blue hue suffuses the mineral, reminiscent of a cloudless sky at the height of a balmy summer.
It weighs 0 ounce(s).

Sarapis

Apologies, all. Super busy and going to bed now. Will start responding when I wake up.

Tharvis

@Gamden basically (if I understood @Makarios correctly) the lode generation is based on the total number of lodes of that type currently already generated. This implies that to get a lode, you'll have to wait for another one to collapse/be mined out somewhere else. (which shouldn't take very long, @Xer estimates roughly 30 hours of mining before his collapses)

Gamden

Thanks Tharvis!

It would be great if they regenerated random number mines, for instance 3 now and maybe next time only 1...otherwise people with mines will now exactly when respawning takes place?