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Mining and Legions

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  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the Storm
    edited July 2015
    Sarapis said:
    ...skyships...

    So that's what @Vastar has been up to...

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • DeliosDelios
    Sarapis said:
    Delios said:
    ...

    That's a lot of words to say "You could vary the time to extract a comm!" ;) 

    (Seriously though, I appreciate it when people take the time to drill down into their ideas in general.)

    Not something we're going to do though. I think it takes things a bit too far in terms of complexity and figuring out how to turn a profit consistently. We'll be adding in mini-lodes, which are effectively very small lodes in which it takes longer to extract a particular comm, though they will be a completely money-losing prospect. The difference is that it's very easy to tell which is which this way.



    Yeah, should have put a tl;dr. But the actual point was more: Can you just spawn enough nodes so everyone can mine. 

    But side benefits were that it completely eliminates a chance of a monopoly and helps normalize returns.

    Also, I'm pretty sure people are just doing this right now, and the mini-lodes don't really change it:

    while true:
      for room in path(get_rooms_near(find_rooms_containing('camp'), 6)):
        walk to room
        prospect
        if (node_size > small or node_type != ('coal') and !node_occupied):
            build mine
        if (node_owner not in (people who I know)):
            attack mine
            build mine

    I'd do it myself, but I think that's lame sauce

  • SarapisSarapis
    That is, long-term, a sure strategy to operate an unprofitable mining business....except possibly for the rare minerals, but we will continue to adjust the chance of them appearing until they don't make up much of a mine's value.


  • BronislavBronislav Maryland
    I'm actually a little surprised - don't people use more steel? Right now, the carbon on the Delos market is only 1,000 at 50gp per and there's only 3,720 bars of steel on the market. Beyond that, however, as much as I want to gripe (and gripe hard!) about the lack of mines...After looking at the Delos comm market, it's pretty flooded. There's almost 20,000 bars of iron, almost 10,000 bars of gold, almost 100,000 coal, almost 40,000 stone. That isn't including city comm shops and personal hordes - the latter of which would likely be clung to, given the lower prices currently on the market.



  • SkyeSkye The Duchess Bellatere
    Could do with more carbon lodes really. I don't know how many people are holding on to their carbon but 50gp per graphite is pricey for what's being offered for steel. If I had to buy carbon off the market for the steel, I'd be making a loss unless cities increase their buying price for it. As it is, I'm not making very much at all so much as recouping expenditure. 


  • SarathaiSarathai
    I think I might have shot myself in the foot if it's going for 50gp per, since I was selling for less than half that.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • BronislavBronislav Maryland
    Sarathai said:
    I think I might have shot myself in the foot if it's going for 50gp per, since I was selling for less than half that.
    Well, that's the thing - they aren't selling at all for 50gp per. The ones prior had sold for 10-15gp per, but they got cleared out from attrition alone.

    ..Also, nix what I said before - there are zero open lodes, now. :frown: 



  • KaldKald
    If trying to keep commodity quantities down is the goal, why not reduce everything by a percent. Like 33%, mines cost 33% less to build, lodes have 33% the numbers they did before. But have 300% the number of lodes? I haven't seen a non-mined lode in a few days. I'm sure there are better solutions to this lack of lodes than a pure money sink that is minimalist in venture.
  • InuadInuad
    Kald said:
    If trying to keep commodity quantities down is the goal, why not reduce everything by a percent. Like 33%, mines cost 33% less to build, lodes have 33% the numbers they did before. But have 300% the number of lodes? I haven't seen a non-mined lode in a few days. I'm sure there are better solutions to this lack of lodes than a pure money sink that is minimalist in venture.
    Lodes are going to be an up and down thing. Some days, you'll see none. Some days, you'll see a ton. I know just yesterday there were a fair amount of them. Are they already taken up? Maybe, yes. But I don't think that requires a shift in how they spawn.

    Also, the goal isn't trying to keep commodity quantities down. The goal is to keep commodity quantities at roughly the same level as they were when villages were producing them. 
  • XithXith
    Kald said:
    If trying to keep commodity quantities down is the goal, why not reduce everything by a percent. Like 33%, mines cost 33% less to build, lodes have 33% the numbers they did before. But have 300% the number of lodes? I haven't seen a non-mined lode in a few days. I'm sure there are better solutions to this lack of lodes than a pure money sink that is minimalist in venture.
    It was hard to find mines for a while, though having a list of known strongholds was helpful.
    I'm sure some of the scale could use adjusting. If squad levels ever rise significantly enough, I think mining speed should be decreased to allow for more time for mining conflict.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • LisbethaeLisbethae
    I can see the future!
  • SarapisSarapis
    @Lisbethae Who the f*** has been stealing our concept art???
  • GreysGreys
    @Sarapis You have shown us what your concept art looks like:

    Way different style.
  • InuadInuad
    Has anyone else seen any difference in mine output as your miners gain levels/specs? The help files say each level/spec add a 0.5% chance to extract an additional commodity. However, I have not seen any difference in output at all. I'm not ruling out the chance that I am getting royally shafted by probability, but that seems very unlikely. Has anyone else been tracking mine output? Has anyone noticed anything?

    I've already bugged it, but I figured I would poll the forums and maybe get some extra visibility.
  • BronislavBronislav Maryland
    Mining is dead! Long live mining!

    :scream: 



  • GrandueGrandue
    Inuad said:
    Has anyone else seen any difference in mine output as your miners gain levels/specs? The help files say each level/spec add a 0.5% chance to extract an additional commodity. However, I have not seen any difference in output at all. I'm not ruling out the chance that I am getting royally shafted by probability, but that seems very unlikely. Has anyone else been tracking mine output? Has anyone noticed anything?

    I've already bugged it, but I figured I would poll the forums and maybe get some extra visibility.
    No, I've got several hundred hours of mining data checked hourly and there has been zero deviation from the hourly yield from lvl 1 to lvl 8 miners. I haven't bugged it yet because it is actually nice to be able to get the yield rate for different commodities without having to factor in the difference in miners levels. 
  • InuadInuad
    Grandue said:
    Inuad said:
    Has anyone else seen any difference in mine output as your miners gain levels/specs? The help files say each level/spec add a 0.5% chance to extract an additional commodity. However, I have not seen any difference in output at all. I'm not ruling out the chance that I am getting royally shafted by probability, but that seems very unlikely. Has anyone else been tracking mine output? Has anyone noticed anything?

    I've already bugged it, but I figured I would poll the forums and maybe get some extra visibility.
    No, I've got several hundred hours of mining data checked hourly and there has been zero deviation from the hourly yield from lvl 1 to lvl 8 miners. I haven't bugged it yet because it is actually nice to be able to get the yield rate for different commodities without having to factor in the difference in miners levels. 
    I am the same way, though I think we are close to the point where there is little more data to collect on that subject. At some point it would be nice to see the random chance proc.
  • SynbiosSynbios
    Lisbethae said:
    I can see the future!
    So can I!

  • SilasSilas
    Xer said:
    Silas's small mine was bugged. Whenever anyone wanted to attack it, it would say another mine was already attacking it. I already outlined in the report how I think it'd be reproduced. Not sure if it was ever fixed.
    It wasn't. I bugged it a week ago after I took it from Ruth. Her squads glitched when she tried to take it back, so I ended up stuck with a small mine for a week that I literally couldn't do anything with just waiting for it to deplete so I could actually start mining again.

    Pretty aggravating.

  • BronislavBronislav Maryland
    No open lodes.
    Nothing except for iron.
    So much iron.
    Drowning in iron.
    We're paying the iron price.
    And now we're gearing up for coal again.
    Before we're back to iron.
    We're ironborn.
    Bring back Lord @Neraeos.
    We're in need of a Drowned God.
    I need to go hunt for gold. Or fish.
    For all of this IRON.
    SO MUCH IRON.
    WHY.
    WHY IS THERE SO MUCH IRON.
    I REMEMBERED WHEN I WAS HAPPY.
    WITH GOLD.
    I HAD A GOLD MINE ONCE.
    IT WAS MASSIVE AND I WAS HAPPY.
    WHY CAN'T I BE HAPPY AGAIN, LORD @SARAPIS.
    WHY CAN'T I CONTROL THE VOLUME OF MY VOICE, LORD @TECTON
    LO, LOOK UPON MY FIELDS OF JOY.
    BEHOLD, THEY ARE BARREN :frown:



  • SarathaiSarathai
    Bronislav said:
    WHY IS THERE SO MUCH IRON.
    I REMEMBERED WHEN I WAS HAPPY.
    WITH GOLD.
    I HAD A GOLD MINE ONCE.
    IT WAS MASSIVE AND I WAS HAPPY.
    Did you pay the iron price for that gold mine?
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • BronislavBronislav Maryland
    Sarathai said:
    Bronislav said:
    WHY IS THERE SO MUCH IRON.
    I REMEMBERED WHEN I WAS HAPPY.
    WITH GOLD.
    I HAD A GOLD MINE ONCE.
    IT WAS MASSIVE AND I WAS HAPPY.
    Did you pay the iron price for that gold mine?
    No, but I did with four others.

    Also, I still don't see any mines with that Fissure. :frown: 



  • KezKez
    Lots of iron mines because lots of iron is pretty much all that's being used, to mine more iron, to mine more iron, to mine more iron. Use other commodities and you'll see other lodes, or at least that's what I've inferred from the hints about how lodes spawn. How? I don't know. Find an enchanter and put in an order for a million of each sigil. Or be patient, because flooding the world with commodities is probably not going to help your bottom line when everybody goes YAY MINING LET'S GET RICH and mines thousands of everything and then sells it all for scraps to try to recover a tiny bit of their investment.
  • SarathaiSarathai
    Bronislav said:
    Sarathai said:
    Bronislav said:
    WHY IS THERE SO MUCH IRON.
    I REMEMBERED WHEN I WAS HAPPY.
    WITH GOLD.
    I HAD A GOLD MINE ONCE.
    IT WAS MASSIVE AND I WAS HAPPY.
    Did you pay the iron price for that gold mine?
    No...
    So be it.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • BronislavBronislav Maryland
    Sarathai said:
    Bronislav said:
    Sarathai said:
    Bronislav said:
    WHY IS THERE SO MUCH IRON.
    I REMEMBERED WHEN I WAS HAPPY.
    WITH GOLD.
    I HAD A GOLD MINE ONCE.
    IT WAS MASSIVE AND I WAS HAPPY.
    Did you pay the iron price for that gold mine?
    No...
    So be it.
    ..Bad comparison. I don't like what happened to him in the end. :fearful: 



  • BronislavBronislav Maryland
    And like an oasis in the midst of a desert, I quench deep of my thirst. and am whole again.

    Praise based @Tecton! Praise based @Sarapis!



  • SarapisSarapis
    I've done some tweaking of how lodes will appear. They should start appearing more regularly, but in smaller numbers all at once, particularly for the more numerous ones (coal, iron, etc).
  • DraekarDraekar
    Sarapis said:
    I've done some tweaking of how lodes will appear. They should start appearing more regularly, but in smaller numbers all at once, particularly for the more numerous ones (coal, iron, etc).
    This latest spawn of lodes was pretty impressive.

    To be honest I have found the last few spawns a bit frustrating due to the timing (timezones). I welcome the more regular spawning, it would be nice if they are smaller lodes more frequently with the large/huge/massive kept really rare. This will hopefully make catching spawns/lodes less frustrating across the various timezones.

    Thanks @Sarapis

  • SarapisSarapis
    Got some plans on how we're going to increase demand for other minable comms too. Have pretty much jettisoned the mini-lode idea even though it's fully implemented.
  • DraekarDraekar
    Sarapis said:
    Got some plans on how we're going to increase demand for other minable comms too. Have pretty much jettisoned the mini-lode idea even though it's fully implemented.
    More rewards for Legendary Blacksmiths so that everyone wants to be one and has to use a ton of comms to get there!

    This idea has only been denied once, it deserves to be denied at least twice!
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