Battlerage

Tecton

All of the prizes can be made non-decay and resetting! There was some confusion earlier regarding the cowry, but I can confirm that it can be customised!

Makaela

@tecton you just readded the cowry to the list of things I want. I forsee myself losing out on sleep before the event ends XD

Antonius

From what little I did of it Dun fortress didn't seem any harder for me. Things took a bit longer to kill (mostly because I had literally nothing set up for battlerage, so was trying to do it manually on a cramped laptop keyboard) but I was getting a lot more for each kill.

I am, however, as artied as it's possible to get for hunting so my experience likely doesn't reflect the norm.

Sarapis

Tael said:

@Sarapis

1. It would be really nice if, in the future, the HTML5 client stuff were ready when these sorts of things went in. I feel like that would really have helped alleviate some of these problems. Adding a new system and saying "Don't worry non-coders, we'll add a UI that makes it easier for you too. Eventually." is better than nothing, but it's not hard to see how some people are going to be pretty dissatisfied in the interim.

To expand a bit more about what Tecton said there, this is not really something we can promise will not happen in the future. We simply don't have the resources to centrally manage development planning across five games and time all those releases and updates with client updates. It would involve slowing down releases in general and that's a greater evil to my mind than releases not being concurrent sometimes.  Just the nature of the beast. One of the reasons we can move fast is because our games require minimal to no client integration with most game system updates, unlike most client-server graphical games. It's one of the only actual advantages we have, or, at least partial advantage.

It is no doubt dissatisfying to some people (though irrelevant to the person loudly complaining in this thread as that person appears to use a third party client), but it's just the reality of our development process and trying to keep five games using the same client without development constantly roadblocked in four games by what's happening in one of the games.

Bluef

Since you were so helpful before, maybe you can help me again guys. I can't figure out where to hunt. I die over and over in  the places I used to hunt; I just can't stand there and tank the denizens. Every dragon talisman area is a no-go for me too in lesserform now (and in dragon, honestly. I died more in that than in lesser yesterday). 

Forget the event rooms. I couldn't even handle one of those special event denizens. I tried both in dragon and lesser and died miserably.

But when I go to lower level places, I either can't get enough rage because the targets are too dispersed (and rage fades) or they die before I get to use anything cool (so before 30 rage is even garnered). I'm at a loss because there doesn't seem to be a happy medium.

It feels ridiculous and incredibly frustrating to be level 104 and unable to hunt things because I'm suddenly so squishy. Any ideas? 

Jules

Honestly, I'm letting the early adopters play with it first.  Although, I do think I'll log back in and hunt TINY creatures to get more of a feel for what it's like.  That's my strategy  

Skye

You're just gonna have to adjust your bashing style.  It's not that you've suddenly become squishy,  just that your style of bashing has always been one of attrition where you basically pit your max health against their max health and ability to out damage your sips. 

You can either try killing something one tier lower than you used to (like pre-dragon)  if you're unwilling to be pro-active in bashing. or you can just learn to hit and run like the rest of us.

Itorvi

MKO's classes have more than one bashing ability in them. A player there has a free system out called Matawa that can be configured to incorporate all the various bashing abilities in the bashing script.

I'm wondering if some of us who aren't coders (or even some of you who are) would benefit from having a look at it. Obviously, there would have to be changes, but maybe it could help.

http://mko.kadarniad.fr/matawa/

Jarrod

My suggestions for adopting the new battlerage stuff is basically my suggestions for bashing in general, but you'll get more benefit out of it now (example below will be for Moghedu):

• Learn the area layouts. Not just rooms, but where mob groups are. Where the patrols are. Which packs are static, which packs split up, etc. Ex: Moghedu has lots of roaming keepers, but the knights/bodyguards spawn in set places. Top floor has the two knights straight north, second floor has the barracks with lots of knights, Mertryn and Temelin as stronger than standard mobs.
• Learn which mobs chase and which do not, this lets you split up packs. Ex: In Moghedu, Knights and Bodyguards chase, as well as Temelin and Mertryn. However, they only chase once they 'aggro' to you, seen by them emoting at you. This means if you walk into a room with 3 things, one emotes at you, and you move out, that one thing will chase you and the others won't. This is key in splitting up dangerous packs. Mhunna, guards, keepers, archers, conjurers, laborers, demolitionists, miners, etc, none of the rest chases. Use this.
• Figure out a path that minimizes the downtime where you're not hunting. Use the previous two points to accomplish this. Ex: Clear top floor in a circle that ends at the down path, move down and clear the barracks. Bait out knights with Temelin to prevent triple group. Kill architect to maintain battlerage, check the path to the cook and clear if worthwhile mobs, move to third floor and clear conjurors, pull the bodyguard/knight out of Mhunna's room, kill Mhunna if you can tank him, move on from there
• New point: Try to gauge the rate you build battlerage versus the optimal way you can spend it. If you want the security of using an affliction like amnesia or stun, make sure you're not planning to use that battlerage for a low damage hit. Ex: If you have 55 battlerage and want to amnesia for 18, don't use your low damage attack because you need the other 37 for your high damage battlerage hit.

I think that's a relatively in-depth guide to how I bash, most other tricks/things are knowing the areas and doing specific things relative to those areas. (Knowing which pockets of denizens will split up if I give them time, etc)

Arditi

I wish my damage over time did more than 1% on a x4 crit.

This is my only regret. Otherwise, I feel one step closer to Malzahar.

Sybilla

This thread blew up and I haven't really read it all so I'm just going to jump in the middle of things:

I thought it would be useful to have a quick reference of everything, and started adding tables to the Battlerage wiki article here - that way you can see it all at a glance and might be easier to plan etc.

So far there's Alchemist, Occultist, and all the dragon colours. I can go cross-reference the rest and copy it over later tonight, but I need a break from staring at a screen, so feel free to take over and help fill in the blanks. Cheers!

Itorvi

Not to be posting so much in a short amount of time, but I've been playing around with all this. First off, you don't need to code anything at all unless you want. I have 4 macros (don't have all 5 abilities yet) and once you get into the swing of things, it's easy to learn when best to use them through trial and error. I have a "routine" of sorts now. Basically, I cycle through them in a particular order. It's easy to figure that out once you actually bash and watch your rage totals. For instance, when my rage hits 35+, I know it's time to tnk if I haven't already on this particular npc.

In my case, I can generally pull off one hit with each of my battlerage abilities per npc killed. Of course, this is based on easier npcs like gnolls. After reading through this thread, I decided to start with easier bashing. Not to mention the fact that I started at level 57 today and have now hit 60. Which, by the way, took a very short amount of time.

All in all, this seems to be a good change. It's definitely made me think instead of mindlessly bashing.

Cooper

So I waited until I logged in and bashed for a while to test before I commented.

Anyone that is complaining that this is too complex, too hard to understand, too complicated, requires coding, or anything similiar to that is complaining about literally nothing. I am one of the worst coders in Achaea (I can't code) and it took me less than 30 seconds to write four macros that made my bashing efficient. send("whateverattackhere " ..target), repeat for everything you need. That's it.

After the changes Sarapis implied are coming it might be a bit more difficult, but if you are complaining about complexity now you should probably find something else to do with your time.

Bluef

Skye said:

You're just gonna have to adjust your bashing style.  It's not that you've suddenly become squishy,  just that your style of bashing has always been one of attrition where you basically pit your max health against their max health and ability to out damage your sips. 

You can either try killing something one tier lower than you used to (like pre-dragon)  if you're unwilling to be pro-active in bashing. or you can just learn to hit and run like the rest of us.

I've already tried killing things that would normally be hunted by Level 80-90 with no problem. They basically kicked my ass. Death, death and more death. I died so many times I ran out of inks for starburst tattoos. I can't stand there and hit denizens 30-50 times. Five hits in and I am dying, so I moved areas. But with denizens that are level 60-70s, I can't build up enough rage to do anything fun or it dissipates, as I mentioned, because the targets are spread out too far.

I looked at the map and geography scrolls a zillion times. I can't figure out where a level-appropriate place to hunt might be anymore to even test out the set-up that Kaie helped me build. Where are people hunting? Are we going to get any sort of update on that bashing guide that was posted a few months back (and is now wildly outdated)?

I have spent most of the last 3 RL years bashing intensely, so I know lots of area layouts, mobs, and paths. But that's for places where I could bash prior to the changes. Now I'm not sure where to even start again without dying excessively. It's been more than 5 RL years since I bashed anywhere but high level areas on my way to and beyond dragon and...unfortunately I think I spent all of the 70's on Colchis/Umbrin, which isn't an option now.

On one of my clans someone told me to just get used to hunting with other people. That this is required now. I've also seen the idea that single player hunting is dying with this change. That's not really the case, right? 

I was also told that people who put everything into CON are doing better with these changes. I put everything into INT prior because I wanted to kill denizens before they killed me. But since that's no longer possible, I'm wondering whether being INT spec for a shaman (and having an INT sash) is even worth it anymore. Since I can't out damage denizens anymore, should I re-spec fully into CON for better survival?  Thanks in advance for your suggestions!

Cooper

Bluef, take a big, huge, massive, ultra gigantic deep breath. Things are not even 5% as shitty as you think they are.

What areas were you bashing before that you are struggling with now? What part of battlerage is giving you issues?

You should be able to easily hunt trash in UW/Annwyn, Moghedu, Vertani (avoid groups), all of Azdun except that new mega crypt part, Dun Fortress, just off the top of my head.

Bluef

Cooper said:

Bluef, take a big, huge, massive, ultra gigantic deep breath. Things are not even 5% as shitty as you think they are.

What areas were you bashing before that you are struggling with now? What part of battlerage is giving you issues?

You should be able to easily hunt trash in UW/Annwyn, Moghedu, Vertani (avoid groups), all of Azdun except that new mega crypt part, Dun Fortress, just off the top of my head.

Thank you for the suggestions, Cooper. I really appreciate them. These are all places I was already hunting (except Mog and UW/Annwyn) and I'm really struggling to hunt there now. Anything more than 1 denizen in a room and I'm drowning in my own Bluefy blood. More than 2 and I'm complete toast. Hitting and running doesn't seem like a very optimal way to hunt; it makes it take even longer to kill anything and I can't tell you the number of times I've come back in a room to someone slashing away at the thing I just spent 5 minutes trying to take down.

Just to clarify, UW/Annwyn isn't an option for me; I'd be jumped in the first five seconds down there like I always am. Moghedu would be the best option, I think, but (sigh) it isn't an option (sorry forgot to mention that) due to roleplay reasons. Valnurana is the patron of the GOM and Bluef's been their biggest supporter in terms of withdrawing all our shrines there. Damn it. 

Do you have any opinion on whether I should go full CON? I can't for the life of me see a reason not to really. Extra INT isn't going to do me much anymore due to huge denizen health pools. But that's a big change and not something I want to jump into without someone else who knows a hell of a lot more than me explaining why it's a good or bad idea.

Cooper

Okay, let's start with the basics.

Can you post your qsc (remove any info you don't want to post here, health/int/etc is the important stuff), and then any relevant arties.

Cynlael

Klendathu said:

Change that red. It's so out of place
Also you should either darken the foreground yellow, or the text.. White on yellow is awful

Looks good otherwise

Jacen

Finally getting to play with this now, my first impression is that I really enjoy the psychological effect of battlerage buildup, the way it pushes you to push yourself and not slack off and let it fade. I understand the issues raised with transitioning between areas or long stretches without bashable denizens, but I do kind of like how it is. 

Brean

@Sarapis battlerage changes, thank you

Nellaundra

I'm coming out of retirement to ask this

@Bluef , what are your mosshealth/mana and siphealth/mana values set at?

Venser

Awesome updates, keep it up! I'm really enjoying this battlerage system

Bluef

Cooper said:

Okay, let's start with the basics.

Can you post your qsc (remove any info you don't want to post here, health/int/etc is the important stuff), and then any relevant arties.

Sure thing!

Bluef Shayan'Kor, the Somnolent Wytch (female Siren Sorceress)

You are level 104 (2nd Heir to Ashaxei's Legacy) and 31.8% of the way to the next level.

Health:       5847 / 5847     Mana:         6152 / 6190

Endurance:   25880 /25880     Willpower:   27436 /27440

Strength: 10  Dexterity: 13  Constitution: 15  Intelligence: 16

Hunting artefacts include the following:

a golden band of Draconic vigour

a Ceylonese ring

a Ceylonese bracelet

a Stygian pendant

a Shield of Absorption

a Circlet of the Will

a Girdle of the Titans

a ring of the Magus

an Epicurean Sash

Tesha

Are you wearing armor? Do you have moss/boar tattoos? Are you sipping health/eating moss? Are you wielding your shield? Make sure your shield has a fist sigil on it, else you'll unwield it on armbreaks. Make sure whatever curing you're using is configured properly to use moss - for example, if you're using serverside and have moss, make sure it's set to use concoctions instead of transmutation. Dun Fortress should be fine for you except Balam's room and maybe the stacks of 4/5 orcs. 

Cynlael

Are you actually wearing those artifacts while hunting??

[spoiler]Trolling aside, what places exactly, have you been dying in? And don't just say 'places I hunted previously' - give specific locations. [/spoiler]

Santar

Here's a tip: Type "dragonform"


This is just ridiculous.

Artied level 104 dragon can't bash?

Vakvyr

jfc, find someone to bash with and do it. Group bashing is worthwhile now, whether you believe it or not. You don't even have to use battlerage. Just hit the fucking denizen. This is only a problem if you don't have people skills.

Anaria

I also seem unable to bash in areas that were previously no problem. The experience was just so miserable overall that I have pretty much decided to stay level 85 forever... or wait and see if more changes make it possible again.

I am however playing a Dex spec siren serpent with NO artefacts and bottom of the barrel Con... I'm about as low on the relative scale as you can possibly get in terms of bashing stats. It really could be as simple as a few tweaks to fix. 

But I just want to be clear - while I do absolutely consider it a good thing that group bashing is being made viable for those who desire level up with friends, if it ever becomes apparent that I must group to be able to train efficiently, I simply won't do it. If my character ends up no longer being self-reliant after all of the time and energy I've put into her over the past eight months, I'll need to re-evaluate my choice to play Achaea as this would be the biggest deal breaker possible for me.

Bluef

Nellaundra said:

I'm coming out of retirement to ask this

@Bluef , what are your mosshealth/mana and siphealth/mana values set at?

90 for health and 85 for mana. I was thinking of moving health up to 95 but I have so much regen I wasn't sure it was necessary. Thoughts? 

Bluef

Tesha said:

Are you wearing armor? Do you have moss/boar tattoos? Are you sipping health/eating moss? Are you wielding your shield? Make sure your shield has a fist sigil on it, else you'll unwield it on armbreaks. Make sure whatever curing you're using is configured properly to use moss - for example, if you're using serverside and have moss, make sure it's set to use concoctions instead of transmutation. Dun Fortress should be fine for you except Balam's room and maybe the stacks of 4/5 orcs. 

Armour - Yep!
Tattoos - Yep! All artied.
Sipping - Yep!
Fist sigil - No (although I've not been killing anything that break arms..but yeah I need to replace that)
Curing   - SVO

Thanks @Tesha! 

Cynlael said:

Trolling aside, what places exactly, have you been dying in? And don't just say 'places I hunted previously' - give specific locations. 

Azdun, which Amranu told me earlier is now a dragon bashing area (and I don't bash in dragon), Aalen (died to rangers for the first time in RL years), Dun Fortress (had a really hard time with ogres), Istarion (could not even handle the first room), Tir Murann (can do 1 vertani but not 2), Meropis (haven't even tried it because it was already harder than the other places I'd been trying).

Then I tried Valho Coast for testing purposes to check my prompt and cooldown echoes. Too low a level for any experience. Qurnok was pretty much the same thing, only slightly better. Quartz Peak was slightly do-able but not if there were more than two ursu in a room.

I don't usually hunt Arcadia, Moghedu or any other area aligned with an Order, City or High Clan. I definitely don't do Annwyn/UW because I'd get jumped immediately. Thanks for the input!

Vakvyr said:

jfc, find someone to bash with and do it. Group bashing is worthwhile now, whether you believe it or not. You don't even have to use battlerage. Just hit the fucking denizen. This is only a problem if you don't have people skills.

I'm not in a city or a House, so I don't have "people." Moreover, I don't enjoy group hunting. Nothing grates on my nerves as much as having to listen to someone prattle on in a partytell or have them hold me up when I'm in the bashing groove. It's not for me. It has nothing to do with my interpersonal skills. I have excellent customer service skills, but that's for work -- this is for my enjoyment and entertainment. The last thing I want to do is come into a game and slap a smile on my face while I suffer through forced social interaction. No thanks. There is a very short of list of people I would hunt with and most of them already know this about me and are the same way.

Anaria said: I also seem unable to bash in areas that were previously no problem. The experience was just so miserable overall that I have pretty much decided to stay level 85 forever... or wait and see if more changes make it possible again.

I am however playing a Dex spec siren serpent with NO artefacts and bottom of the barrel Con... I'm about as low on the relative scale as you can possibly get in terms of bashing stats. It really could be as simple as a few tweaks to fix. 

But I just want to be clear - while I do absolutely consider it a good thing that group bashing is being made viable for those who desire level up with friends, if it ever becomes apparent that I must group to be able to train efficiently, I simply won't do it. If my character ends up no longer being self-reliant after all of the time and energy I've put into her over the past eight months, I'll need to re-evaluate my choice to play Achaea as this would be the biggest deal breaker possible for me.

I feel exactly the same way, Anaria. I haven't seen any answer to my question yet about racial spec; if I missed it please let me know, but it seems like the majority of people struggling with the bashing changes weren't spec-ed in CON. Coincidence?

Santar said:

Here's a tip: Type "dragonform"

This is just ridiculous.

Artied level 104 dragon can't bash?

I don't hunt in dragon. I don't enjoy how terribly slow it feels compared to the 1s attacks of shaman. This is a game after all so enjoyment counts.