Battlerage

Sarapis

@Morthif We'll see. Not a priority at the moment though. Idea it please.

Jarrod

All of my battlerage stuff is 100% manual, the extent of my coding for the change was adding 5 macros for the abilities individually and adding a prompt tag for battlerage amount.

The extent of the complexity of battlerage in a group is "What abilities will utilize my battlerage at the rate I gain it." If you've got two useful afflictions, alternate affs + burst skill. If you have one, use the one + burst + spam damage skill. If you have no useful afflictions, use all three damage abilities. From there it's just "Do I actually have to time my afflictions", if you have recklessness, use it between 20% and 25% if you can. If you don't, try not to overlap.

Solo it's even easier. Do I have recklessness? If not, ignore everything but damage abilities.

Sarapis

Incidentally, we're going to deal with the shield issue by giving all classes/dragon colours a shield takedown BR ability.

Bluef

Sarapis said:

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

I suggest that in any game you play, of any kind, there are game mechanics to master. They are the literal definition of a game. If your complaint is that you don't like game mechanics, you're in the wrong place.

Again, I didn't say I didn't like the game mechanics. I said I had trouble understanding them. Until yesterday, the literal definition of the game's mechanics didn't involve me because I didn't PvP. Why you want to lose a long-term customer (because you're basically pushing me out the door right now) doesn't really make sense to me. But I'll say it again: Your attitude and tone on these boards sets the level by which everyone else posts. It's easy to see why some people think it's perfectly alright to call some people stupid for not understanding things they find easy and manageable. 

I'm not calling anyone stupid for whether they find this easy and manageable or not any more than I am for any game mechanic. If you have trouble understanding them, well, not everybody is going to be as good at everything as everybody else. It's the nature of a game. Some people can't RP their way out of a wet paper bag, whereas you can, for instance. You can also certainly hunt, whether it will be as efficiently as someone else or not, just like someone less good at RP can still RP, whether they can do it as well or not.

Not sure where you'd get the idea that the game's mechanics don't involve you because you don't PvP. Every single thing you do that the game recognizes as a command is part of a game mechanic. 

I don't want to lose any long-term customers, but I doubt there's ever been any significant change in the history of Achaea that someone didn't like , and it is what it is: We make decisions for the good of the game now and game in the future, not one individual player, however vocal.

You just told me to go play a game called Cow Clicker. If that's not an insult to my intelligence, I don't know what is. The fact that you felt the need to make such caustic remarks when I was just receiving the help I needed is also pretty odd. 

I don't like the new play style of hunting.  I have a right to hold that opinion. You said we could discuss battlerage here. I shared that opinion. I also expressed numerous concerns about things not working properly (like crits -- I was told to gather my calculations and send them in via email. Calculations, ha!) and asked questions, which were met with about as much derision as your last two posts.

I never assumed you'd change the game just for me as if I were some kind of special snowflake. But I also thought you might consider the experience of some long-term players who were significantly overwhelmed by these changes and be empathetic to that. I guess I was mistaken. 

Atalkez

Sarapis said:

Incidentally, we're going to deal with the shield issue by giving all classes/dragon colours a shield takedown BR ability.

So a 6th BR skill, or replacing one of the damage attacks with a shield break? Assuming you're not removing/changing many of the afflictions since they are mainly setup how I'd assume you wanted them

Borran

Sarapis said:

Incidentally, we're going to deal with the shield issue by giving all classes/dragon colours a shield takedown BR ability.

Can those classes that already have one have a different cool ability added instead? Rivestrike does fine for me and knights would probably like something cool added because they can just raze/razeslash or whatnot.

Dragon I'm actually cool with having one because I keep using my breath to blast through the shield only to have them shield again. =/

Atalkez

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

I suggest that in any game you play, of any kind, there are game mechanics to master. They are the literal definition of a game. If your complaint is that you don't like game mechanics, you're in the wrong place.

Again, I didn't say I didn't like the game mechanics. I said I had trouble understanding them. Until yesterday, the literal definition of the game's mechanics didn't involve me because I didn't PvP. Why you want to lose a long-term customer (because you're basically pushing me out the door right now) doesn't really make sense to me. But I'll say it again: Your attitude and tone on these boards sets the level by which everyone else posts. It's easy to see why some people think it's perfectly alright to call some people stupid for not understanding things they find easy and manageable. 

I'm not calling anyone stupid for whether they find this easy and manageable or not any more than I am for any game mechanic. If you have trouble understanding them, well, not everybody is going to be as good at everything as everybody else. It's the nature of a game. Some people can't RP their way out of a wet paper bag, whereas you can, for instance. You can also certainly hunt, whether it will be as efficiently as someone else or not, just like someone less good at RP can still RP, whether they can do it as well or not.

Not sure where you'd get the idea that the game's mechanics don't involve you because you don't PvP. Every single thing you do that the game recognizes as a command is part of a game mechanic. 

I don't want to lose any long-term customers, but I doubt there's ever been any significant change in the history of Achaea that someone didn't like , and it is what it is: We make decisions for the good of the game now and game in the future, not one individual player, however vocal.

You just told me to go play a game called Cow Clicker. If that's not an insult to my intelligence, I don't know what is. The fact that you felt the need to make such caustic remarks when I was just receiving the help I needed is also pretty odd. 

I don't like the new play style of hunting.  I have a right to hold that opinion. You said we could discuss battlerage here. I shared that opinion. I also expressed numerous concerns about things not working properly (like crits -- I was told to gather my calculations and send them in via email. Calculations, ha!) and asked questions, which were met with about as much derision as your last two posts.

I never assumed you'd change the game just for me as if I were some kind of special snowflake. But I also thought you might consider the experience of some long-term players who were significantly overwhelmed by these changes and be empathetic to that. I guess I was mistaken. 

One thing to keep in mind here:

Achaean is a business. If every business was empathetic/sympathetic (they are different) to their customers individually, you wouldn't have many business that could remain solvent.

Achaea has to do what is best for Achaea, the consequences be what they are. We all get where you're coming from (at least I do), but you have to take a step back and look at it objectively.

Achaea is a text base game that is competing with WoW, LoL, etc for playing time. The hunting needed an upgrade to be more of a style that can be compared across multiple platforms/genres. It's WoW hunting, with less abilities, and in text.

This may not be for everyone, but again, they have to do what is best for the company.

Ahmet

Borran said:

Sarapis said:

Incidentally, we're going to deal with the shield issue by giving all classes/dragon colours a shield takedown BR ability.

Can those classes that already have one have a different cool ability added instead? Rivestrike does fine for me and knights would probably like something cool added because they can just raze/razeslash or whatnot.

Dragon I'm actually cool with having one because I keep using my breath to blast through the shield only to have them shield again. =/

Yah shield takedown ability for bards when we already have a balance devoted to pretty much nothing but razing (while bashing, at least, not pvp), seems pretty wasteful to me, especially if it takes rage

Sarapis

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

I suggest that in any game you play, of any kind, there are game mechanics to master. They are the literal definition of a game. If your complaint is that you don't like game mechanics, you're in the wrong place.

Again, I didn't say I didn't like the game mechanics. I said I had trouble understanding them. Until yesterday, the literal definition of the game's mechanics didn't involve me because I didn't PvP. Why you want to lose a long-term customer (because you're basically pushing me out the door right now) doesn't really make sense to me. But I'll say it again: Your attitude and tone on these boards sets the level by which everyone else posts. It's easy to see why some people think it's perfectly alright to call some people stupid for not understanding things they find easy and manageable. 

I'm not calling anyone stupid for whether they find this easy and manageable or not any more than I am for any game mechanic. If you have trouble understanding them, well, not everybody is going to be as good at everything as everybody else. It's the nature of a game. Some people can't RP their way out of a wet paper bag, whereas you can, for instance. You can also certainly hunt, whether it will be as efficiently as someone else or not, just like someone less good at RP can still RP, whether they can do it as well or not.

Not sure where you'd get the idea that the game's mechanics don't involve you because you don't PvP. Every single thing you do that the game recognizes as a command is part of a game mechanic. 

I don't want to lose any long-term customers, but I doubt there's ever been any significant change in the history of Achaea that someone didn't like , and it is what it is: We make decisions for the good of the game now and game in the future, not one individual player, however vocal.

You just told me to go play a game called Cow Clicker. If that's not an insult to my intelligence, I don't know what is. The fact that you felt the need to make such caustic remarks when I was just receiving the help I needed is also pretty odd. 

I don't like the new play style of hunting.  I have a right to that opinion. You said we could discuss battlerage here. I shared that opinion. I also expressed numerous concerns about things not working properly (like crits -- I was told to gather my calculations and send them in via email. Calculations, ha!) and asked questions, which were met with about as much derision as your last two posts.

I never assumed you'd change the game just for me as if I were some kind of special snowflake. But I also thought you might consider the experience of some long-term players who were significantly overwhelmed by these changes and be empathetic to that. I guess I was mistaken. 

No, what I said was that if you want a game that boils down to clicking one button, with no mechanics to think about, Cow Clicker is your perfect game. This was directly after you'd complained about having to understand game mechanics. 

Sure, you're welcome to not like Battlerage. Do you think it's odd that other people who posted they didn't like it didn't get a negative reaction from so many people? It might be because they aren't so consistently, predictably negative, to the point of announcing to the world multiple times even before you had any idea what the changes were going to be that you were pretty sure you were going to dislike them. Surprise! You dislike them.

Dunn

Crit pendant value just skyrocketed. Just saying.

I upgraded to a level 2 yesterday and ho lee crap having three attacks rolling for crits is great.

Bluef

Atalkez said:

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

I suggest that in any game you play, of any kind, there are game mechanics to master. They are the literal definition of a game. If your complaint is that you don't like game mechanics, you're in the wrong place.

Again, I didn't say I didn't like the game mechanics. I said I had trouble understanding them. Until yesterday, the literal definition of the game's mechanics didn't involve me because I didn't PvP. Why you want to lose a long-term customer (because you're basically pushing me out the door right now) doesn't really make sense to me. But I'll say it again: Your attitude and tone on these boards sets the level by which everyone else posts. It's easy to see why some people think it's perfectly alright to call some people stupid for not understanding things they find easy and manageable. 

I'm not calling anyone stupid for whether they find this easy and manageable or not any more than I am for any game mechanic. If you have trouble understanding them, well, not everybody is going to be as good at everything as everybody else. It's the nature of a game. Some people can't RP their way out of a wet paper bag, whereas you can, for instance. You can also certainly hunt, whether it will be as efficiently as someone else or not, just like someone less good at RP can still RP, whether they can do it as well or not.

Not sure where you'd get the idea that the game's mechanics don't involve you because you don't PvP. Every single thing you do that the game recognizes as a command is part of a game mechanic. 

I don't want to lose any long-term customers, but I doubt there's ever been any significant change in the history of Achaea that someone didn't like , and it is what it is: We make decisions for the good of the game now and game in the future, not one individual player, however vocal.

You just told me to go play a game called Cow Clicker. If that's not an insult to my intelligence, I don't know what is. The fact that you felt the need to make such caustic remarks when I was just receiving the help I needed is also pretty odd. 

I don't like the new play style of hunting.  I have a right to hold that opinion. You said we could discuss battlerage here. I shared that opinion. I also expressed numerous concerns about things not working properly (like crits -- I was told to gather my calculations and send them in via email. Calculations, ha!) and asked questions, which were met with about as much derision as your last two posts.

I never assumed you'd change the game just for me as if I were some kind of special snowflake. But I also thought you might consider the experience of some long-term players who were significantly overwhelmed by these changes and be empathetic to that. I guess I was mistaken. 

One thing to keep in mind here:

Achaean is a business. If every business was empathetic/sympathetic (they are different) to their customers individually, you wouldn't have many business that could remain solvent.

Achaea has to do what is best for Achaea, the consequences be what they are. We all get where you're coming from (at least I do), but you have to take a step back and look at it objectively.

Achaea is a text base game that is competing with WoW, LoL, etc for playing time. The hunting needed an upgrade to be more of a style that can be compared across multiple platforms/genres. It's WoW hunting, with less abilities, and in text.

This may not be for everyone, but again, they have to do what is best for the company.

That's not how customer service works though. Anyone representing a business should listen with empathy and work toward resolution. It may not be the resolution the customer wants, but the process of getting there should make that okay. In that post you quoted, I was not complaining about Achaea changing their hunting system; I was complaining about their customer service in this forum thread. 

Of course Achaea has to do what will help it recruit and retain players. But if they lose long-term players because a change is handled poorly, they're just going to break even, not come out ahead. It's funny that you mention WoW and LoL though; I was just thinking how the mentality of the rude postings made here to Jules and I were very much like the same toxic attitude that often pervades PUGs in those games. 

In time, I'm sure I'll come to accept the new hunting system but this is a massive change and the lack of customer support is really off-putting. Hopefully the next batch of changes won't be so overwhelming.

Ahmet

Dunn said:

Crit pendant value just skyrocketed. Just saying.

I upgraded to a level 2 yesterday and ho lee crap having three attacks rolling for crits is great.

Crit pendant value stayed the exact same because it still ups your dps by the exact same amount :surprised: 


Though I suppose crits in general are better bc less over-critting. But still.

Alaskar

I keep getting crits on my stupid windlash thing, lol. So the CRUSHING CRITICAL I got is like...16 damage, lol. It wasn't even 1% of health. Still, looks cool getting all those crits.

Ahmet

Bluef said:

Atalkez said:

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

I suggest that in any game you play, of any kind, there are game mechanics to master. They are the literal definition of a game. If your complaint is that you don't like game mechanics, you're in the wrong place.

Again, I didn't say I didn't like the game mechanics. I said I had trouble understanding them. Until yesterday, the literal definition of the game's mechanics didn't involve me because I didn't PvP. Why you want to lose a long-term customer (because you're basically pushing me out the door right now) doesn't really make sense to me. But I'll say it again: Your attitude and tone on these boards sets the level by which everyone else posts. It's easy to see why some people think it's perfectly alright to call some people stupid for not understanding things they find easy and manageable. 

I'm not calling anyone stupid for whether they find this easy and manageable or not any more than I am for any game mechanic. If you have trouble understanding them, well, not everybody is going to be as good at everything as everybody else. It's the nature of a game. Some people can't RP their way out of a wet paper bag, whereas you can, for instance. You can also certainly hunt, whether it will be as efficiently as someone else or not, just like someone less good at RP can still RP, whether they can do it as well or not.

Not sure where you'd get the idea that the game's mechanics don't involve you because you don't PvP. Every single thing you do that the game recognizes as a command is part of a game mechanic. 

I don't want to lose any long-term customers, but I doubt there's ever been any significant change in the history of Achaea that someone didn't like , and it is what it is: We make decisions for the good of the game now and game in the future, not one individual player, however vocal.

You just told me to go play a game called Cow Clicker. If that's not an insult to my intelligence, I don't know what is. The fact that you felt the need to make such caustic remarks when I was just receiving the help I needed is also pretty odd. 

I don't like the new play style of hunting.  I have a right to hold that opinion. You said we could discuss battlerage here. I shared that opinion. I also expressed numerous concerns about things not working properly (like crits -- I was told to gather my calculations and send them in via email. Calculations, ha!) and asked questions, which were met with about as much derision as your last two posts.

I never assumed you'd change the game just for me as if I were some kind of special snowflake. But I also thought you might consider the experience of some long-term players who were significantly overwhelmed by these changes and be empathetic to that. I guess I was mistaken. 

One thing to keep in mind here:

Achaean is a business. If every business was empathetic/sympathetic (they are different) to their customers individually, you wouldn't have many business that could remain solvent.

Achaea has to do what is best for Achaea, the consequences be what they are. We all get where you're coming from (at least I do), but you have to take a step back and look at it objectively.

Achaea is a text base game that is competing with WoW, LoL, etc for playing time. The hunting needed an upgrade to be more of a style that can be compared across multiple platforms/genres. It's WoW hunting, with less abilities, and in text.

This may not be for everyone, but again, they have to do what is best for the company.

That's not how customer service works though. Anyone representing a business should listen with empathy and work toward resolution. It may not be the resolution the customer wants, but the process of getting there should make that okay. In that post you quoted, I was not complaining about Achaea changing their hunting system; I was complaining about their customer service in this forum thread. 

Of course Achaea has to do what will help it recruit and retain players. But if they lose long-term players because a change is handled poorly, they're just going to break even, not come out ahead. It's funny that you mention WoW and LoL though; I was just thinking how the mentality of the rude postings made here to Jules and I were very much like the same toxic attitude that often pervades PUGs in those games. 

In time, I'm sure I'll come to accept the new hunting system but this is a massive change and the lack of customer support is really off-putting. Hopefully the next batch of changes won't be so overwhelming.

This isn't a customer support issue. This is a 'you refusing to anything more than press enter repeatedly' issue.

Merador

Everything having more health means that there's less wasted crit damage, especially with multiple attacks. It's better effective DPS.

Atalkez

Bluef said:

Atalkez said:

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

I suggest that in any game you play, of any kind, there are game mechanics to master. They are the literal definition of a game. If your complaint is that you don't like game mechanics, you're in the wrong place.

Again, I didn't say I didn't like the game mechanics. I said I had trouble understanding them. Until yesterday, the literal definition of the game's mechanics didn't involve me because I didn't PvP. Why you want to lose a long-term customer (because you're basically pushing me out the door right now) doesn't really make sense to me. But I'll say it again: Your attitude and tone on these boards sets the level by which everyone else posts. It's easy to see why some people think it's perfectly alright to call some people stupid for not understanding things they find easy and manageable. 

I'm not calling anyone stupid for whether they find this easy and manageable or not any more than I am for any game mechanic. If you have trouble understanding them, well, not everybody is going to be as good at everything as everybody else. It's the nature of a game. Some people can't RP their way out of a wet paper bag, whereas you can, for instance. You can also certainly hunt, whether it will be as efficiently as someone else or not, just like someone less good at RP can still RP, whether they can do it as well or not.

Not sure where you'd get the idea that the game's mechanics don't involve you because you don't PvP. Every single thing you do that the game recognizes as a command is part of a game mechanic. 

I don't want to lose any long-term customers, but I doubt there's ever been any significant change in the history of Achaea that someone didn't like , and it is what it is: We make decisions for the good of the game now and game in the future, not one individual player, however vocal.

You just told me to go play a game called Cow Clicker. If that's not an insult to my intelligence, I don't know what is. The fact that you felt the need to make such caustic remarks when I was just receiving the help I needed is also pretty odd. 

I don't like the new play style of hunting.  I have a right to hold that opinion. You said we could discuss battlerage here. I shared that opinion. I also expressed numerous concerns about things not working properly (like crits -- I was told to gather my calculations and send them in via email. Calculations, ha!) and asked questions, which were met with about as much derision as your last two posts.

I never assumed you'd change the game just for me as if I were some kind of special snowflake. But I also thought you might consider the experience of some long-term players who were significantly overwhelmed by these changes and be empathetic to that. I guess I was mistaken. 

One thing to keep in mind here:

Achaean is a business. If every business was empathetic/sympathetic (they are different) to their customers individually, you wouldn't have many business that could remain solvent.

Achaea has to do what is best for Achaea, the consequences be what they are. We all get where you're coming from (at least I do), but you have to take a step back and look at it objectively.

Achaea is a text base game that is competing with WoW, LoL, etc for playing time. The hunting needed an upgrade to be more of a style that can be compared across multiple platforms/genres. It's WoW hunting, with less abilities, and in text.

This may not be for everyone, but again, they have to do what is best for the company.

That's not how customer service works though. Anyone representing a business should listen with empathy and work toward resolution. It may not be the resolution the customer wants, but the process of getting there should make that okay. In that post you quoted, I was not complaining about Achaea changing their hunting system; I was complaining about their customer service in this forum thread. 

Of course Achaea has to do what will help it recruit and retain players. But if they lose long-term players because a change is handled poorly, they're just going to break even, not come out ahead. It's funny that you mention WoW and LoL though; I was just thinking how the mentality of the rude postings made here to Jules and I were very much like the same toxic attitude that often pervades PUGs in those games. 

In time, I'm sure I'll come to accept the new hunting system but this is a massive change and the lack of customer support is really off-putting. Hopefully the next batch of changes won't be so overwhelming.

Working in customer service, I agree with you to a certain extent.

There are some customers you're not going to please. There are going to be some customers that will cry at the smallest most insignificant things, just to be heard.

I'm not saying that you're one of these people. What I am saying though is if (assuming we have a community of 500 total people) 75% of the customer base (players) is lauding the changes, then the 25% are simply going to get ignored and/or ridiculed. We don't know what information they have on their side. All of the ideas/bugs may include a "attaboy" too.

If the pros outweigh the cons, and the voices of change outweigh the voices of the status quo, then it's only logical that you'll be met with less than desired results. I'm sure your personal character history has something to do with some responses you've gotten, as people struggle to be objective. I'm just giving you my point of view!

Bluef

Ahmet said:

This isn't a customer support issue. This is a 'you refusing to anything more than press enter repeatedly' issue.

No, it's not. I'm not refusing to do anything. Your post though is an excellent example of the kind of thing that comes from moderators being jerks to players publicly here. 

Ahmet

Bluef said:

Ahmet said:

This isn't a customer support issue. This is a 'you refusing to anything more than press enter repeatedly' issue.

No, it's not. I'm not refusing to do anything. Your post though is an excellent example of the kind of thing that comes from moderators being jerks to players publicly here. 

You LITERALLY said in your post that you didn't want anything more complicated than Achaea's previous bashing system, which was literally just pressing enter repeatedly. Nobody is making you use the battlerage abilities. Hell, nobody's making you play Achaea. Its a choice you made, and continue to make.

EDIT: and what the hell does my post have anything to do with the actions of moderators?

Bluef

Atalkez said:

Working in customer service, I agree with you to a certain extent. There are some customers you're not going to please. There are going to be some customers that will cry at the smallest most insignificant things, just to be heard. 

I'm not saying that you're one of these people. What I am saying though is if (assuming we have a community of 500 total people) 75% of the customer base (players) is lauding the changes, then the 25% are simply going to get ignored and/or ridiculed. We don't know what information they have on their side. All of the ideas/bugs may include a "attaboy" too.

If the pros outweigh the cons, and the voices of change outweigh the voices of the status quo, then it's only logical that you'll be met with less than desired results. I'm sure your personal character history has something to do with some responses you've gotten, as people struggle to be objective. I'm just giving you my point of view!

I appreciate your input! The thing is that only a very small percentage of Achaeans use the forums, so it's really difficult to say who is lauding it and who is struggling with the new hunting system based on it. I mean many people lurk because they're afraid posting will end up with them getting ridiculed for their concerns. 

But either way, the 25% shouldn't be ignored or ridiculed, particularly by the people representing the company. My character's history, which I think has been wildly exaggerated (I've never been punished IC for anything beyond shrine defilement), hasn't stopped IRE from taking thousands of dollars from me, so why it would factor into the way I'm treated by those who work for the company doesn't make sense. Every company has customers you don't like to work with or service, but you keep your gameface on throughout. 

Alaskar said:

I keep getting crits on my stupid windlash thing, lol. So the CRUSHING CRITICAL I got is like...16 damage, lol. It wasn't even 1% of health. Still, looks cool getting all those crits.

At least you're getting crits. I didn't see many yesterday during testing. My crit counter showed my rate at 25%, which is considerably lower than I'm used to and pretty much makes my Level 3 pendant feel like a waste of $400.

Tael

@Bluef I think you're certainly entitled to not enjoying the new system. It is slower (in terms of killing - the aesthetic experience of bashing if you will) and I don't find it at all hard to believe that some people find it less fun. That's a perfectly legitimate opinion.

Whether or not it's more efficient (in theory, given what we've been told about how it's intended to be balanced - it's been in for all of two days and, as you point out, things are skewed by double XP right now, so it might need some adjustment), is not a matter of opinion. You say it takes more curatives now, but it doesn't - it takes exactly the same number of curatives per XP and per gold, which is what matters for determine efficiency. Likewise, you've said it takes more willpower, which is just not true - it takes exactly the same amount of willpower per XP and per gold, which is what matters for determining efficiency.

Again, it may very well be the case that xp and gold need to be adjusted. The admin have said that they're going to make those adjustments. The intent is for gold and xp per time invested to be the same. A consequence of that intent is that willpower drain and curative cost per gold and xp will also be the same. Since, while bashing, you're cursing as quickly as possible and your need to cure is based on the timecourse of the denizen's attacks, your willpower drain and curative cost are a function of time. If the time-to-xp/gold remains the same, then it is inescapable that the willpower drain and curative cost per gold/xp will remain the same.

Regarding complexity, I think it feels complex right now because it is (a) spammy and (b) doesn't have cooldown messages which necessitates coding timers, which is pretty silly.

You can ameliorate the spam problem by putting the rage number into your prompt and using CONFIG to turn off the rage lines. Both of these are very easy to do - HELP BATTLERAGE explains how to do them (if you just do CONFIG PROMPT ALL, rage will get added, and CONFIG RAGEGAINMSG OFF will get rid of the line). Once you do that, the spam will be exactly the same as it used to be.

As for cooldown timers, you can either wait until they get added, which sounds like it's happening pretty soon, or you can make a temptimer with an echo. You don't need to be a "coder" to do that. At all. You can literally copy+paste one line. Then just add that to the alias/keybind you use for the battlerage ability, or trigger it to the message you get when you hit with the battlerage ability. Here you go: tempTimer(16.00, [[echo("Corruption is off cooldown.")]])

To do the others, just change 16.00 to whatever their cooldown is and change "Corruption is off cooldown." to whatever message you want to give.

And you don't really need any sort of automation or system beyond that, assuming you can look at your battlerage and say to yourself "25 is more than 14, so I can use corruption right now", which doesn't seem like a big ask.

You can get fancier and try to optimise things and try to make use of the afflictions and all that, but if all you do is use corruption and haemmorhage whenever you have enough battlerage and they're off-cooldown, you'll do just fine. The difference between that and "optimal" is not particularly huge.

@Sarapis

1. It would be really nice if, in the future, the HTML5 client stuff were ready when these sorts of things went in. I feel like that would really have helped alleviate some of these problems. Adding a new system and saying "Don't worry non-coders, we'll add a UI that makes it easier for you too. Eventually." is better than nothing, but it's not hard to see how some people are going to be pretty dissatisfied in the interim.
2. Lack of cooldown messages on the initial release was a real oversight.
3. Assuming the new battlerage shieldbreaks cost rage to use, are existing shieldbreaks going to become adventurer-only? I know people (particularly bards) would be unhappy to see that happen, but it seems like the obvious choice - otherwise the divide between classes with and without shieldbreaks is going to get even larger, with bards, for instance, being able to shieldbreak without losing any time and without having to spend rage on it like other classes (rage that they can then spend on doing more damage).

Overall, I really like almost everything about the new system. I'm still a little iffy on class combos being so restricted, but that's more an aesthetic thing (it feels cool to use your big special affliction-consuming ability) than a mechanical one (the affliction-consuming abilities consume useful afflictions and aren't that incredible from what I've seen). But overall, I love the idea of having some easy little cooldowns to manage while bashing, it's solved the all-my-bashing-areas-are-empty problem, and I really, really like giving people an incentive to go group bashing.

Ahmet

Bluef said:

Atalkez said:

Working in customer service, I agree with you to a certain extent. There are some customers you're not going to please. There are going to be some customers that will cry at the smallest most insignificant things, just to be heard. 

I'm not saying that you're one of these people. What I am saying though is if (assuming we have a community of 500 total people) 75% of the customer base (players) is lauding the changes, then the 25% are simply going to get ignored and/or ridiculed. We don't know what information they have on their side. All of the ideas/bugs may include a "attaboy" too.

If the pros outweigh the cons, and the voices of change outweigh the voices of the status quo, then it's only logical that you'll be met with less than desired results. I'm sure your personal character history has something to do with some responses you've gotten, as people struggle to be objective. I'm just giving you my point of view!

I appreciate your input! The thing is that only a very small percentage of Achaeans use the forums, so it's really difficult to say who is lauding it and who is struggling with the new hunting system based on it. I mean many people lurk because they're afraid posting will end up with them getting ridiculed for their concerns. 

But either way, the 25% shouldn't be ignored or ridiculed, particularly by the people representing the company. My character's history, which I think has been wildly exaggerated (I've never been punished IC for anything beyond shrine defilement), hasn't stopped IRE from taking thousands of dollars from me, so why it would factor into the way I'm treated by those who work for the company doesn't make sense. Every company has customers you don't like to work with or service, but you keep your gameface on throughout. 

Alaskar said:

I keep getting crits on my stupid windlash thing, lol. So the CRUSHING CRITICAL I got is like...16 damage, lol. It wasn't even 1% of health. Still, looks cool getting all those crits.

At least you're getting crits. I didn't see many yesterday during testing. My crit counter showed my rate at 25%, which is considerably lower than I'm used to and pretty much makes my Level 3 pendant feel like a waste of $400.

Just fyi, you can't crit the event denizens, so that may be skewing your numbers.
BTW, I'd be happy to help you out with setting stuff up if you need help.

Bluef

Sarapis said:

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

I suggest that in any game you play, of any kind, there are game mechanics to master. They are the literal definition of a game. If your complaint is that you don't like game mechanics, you're in the wrong place.

Again, I didn't say I didn't like the game mechanics. I said I had trouble understanding them. Until yesterday, the literal definition of the game's mechanics didn't involve me because I didn't PvP. Why you want to lose a long-term customer (because you're basically pushing me out the door right now) doesn't really make sense to me. But I'll say it again: Your attitude and tone on these boards sets the level by which everyone else posts. It's easy to see why some people think it's perfectly alright to call some people stupid for not understanding things they find easy and manageable. 

I'm not calling anyone stupid for whether they find this easy and manageable or not any more than I am for any game mechanic. If you have trouble understanding them, well, not everybody is going to be as good at everything as everybody else. It's the nature of a game. Some people can't RP their way out of a wet paper bag, whereas you can, for instance. You can also certainly hunt, whether it will be as efficiently as someone else or not, just like someone less good at RP can still RP, whether they can do it as well or not.

Not sure where you'd get the idea that the game's mechanics don't involve you because you don't PvP. Every single thing you do that the game recognizes as a command is part of a game mechanic. 

I don't want to lose any long-term customers, but I doubt there's ever been any significant change in the history of Achaea that someone didn't like , and it is what it is: We make decisions for the good of the game now and game in the future, not one individual player, however vocal.

You just told me to go play a game called Cow Clicker. If that's not an insult to my intelligence, I don't know what is. The fact that you felt the need to make such caustic remarks when I was just receiving the help I needed is also pretty odd. 

I don't like the new play style of hunting.  I have a right to that opinion. You said we could discuss battlerage here. I shared that opinion. I also expressed numerous concerns about things not working properly (like crits -- I was told to gather my calculations and send them in via email. Calculations, ha!) and asked questions, which were met with about as much derision as your last two posts.

I never assumed you'd change the game just for me as if I were some kind of special snowflake. But I also thought you might consider the experience of some long-term players who were significantly overwhelmed by these changes and be empathetic to that. I guess I was mistaken. 

No, what I said was that if you want a game that boils down to clicking one button, with no mechanics to think about, Cow Clicker is your perfect game. This was directly after you'd complained about having to understand game mechanics. 

Sure, you're welcome to not like Battlerage. Do you think it's odd that other people who posted they didn't like it didn't get a negative reaction from so many people? It might be because they aren't so consistently, predictably negative, to the point of announcing to the world multiple times even before you had any idea what the changes were going to be that you were pretty sure you were going to dislike them. Surprise! You dislike them.

I don't think I ever posted that I wanted a game that boils down to clicking one button. I also never said I was against thinking about mechanics. What I wrote, and what you clearly didn't bother to read, was that the mechanics involved and the coding required to set up an efficient hunting system, were beyond my scope (and the scope of many players).

I also never said I wouldn't like the changes that were coming -- unless the exact things that I said I hoped you didn't do are about to be implemented, that is (more spam, more difficulty than the overwhelming amount there already is, etc). I'm sorry that you take the concerns I have about that so personally that you feel the need to call me out for sharing them. 

I'm not a negative person and I dislike you trying to characterize me as one. I embrace change just like anyone else, usually in increments. I can usually take things in stride when they come about that way.

What I'm not going to take though is you repeatedly insulting me here because everyone else follows your lead. Like I said before, you can be proud of the thing you built and still show empathy for those who don't understand how to use it and are frustrated by that. 

Bluef

Tael said:

You can make a temptimer with an echo. You don't need to be a "coder" to do that. At all. You can literally copy+paste one line. Then just add that to the alias/keybind you use for the battlerage ability, or trigger it to the message you get when you hit with the battlerage ability. Here you go: tempTimer(16.00, [[echo("Corruption is off cooldown.")]])

You can ameliorate the spam problem by putting the rage number into your prompt and using CONFIG to turn off the rage lines. Both of these are very easy to do - HELP BATTLERAGE explains how to do them (if you just do CONFIG PROMPT ALL, rage will get added, and CONFIG RAGEGAINMSG OFF will get rid of the line). Once you do that, the spam will be exactly the same as it used to be

Thanks. The prompt thing won't work though. I'm using a custom prompt with SVO and my prompt is already huge. I can't add anything more to it. 

I think people believe I'm trolling them, but honestly this just reads like, "You can make a redzebra with a yellowelephant" to me. When I hear unfamiliar words my brain just can't process them. Sure, I know what a tempTimer is in theory, but how to set up something like this for every ability is overwhelming. I want to hunt and I can't effectively. That's frustrating. 

Shout out to Veldrin too, who was really nice and sent me an XML file, where I have to substitute my skills into it. Unfortunately, it just looks like gibberish to me. I'd not even know where to start with that. I'll ask Kaie if he can help me later today set some things up (hopefully he can be asked because he's not busy playing Cow Clicker). 

Thanks again!

Aminah

My mind understands .5% of Achaea's game mechanics.

BUT I do have aliases for my battlerage stuff. I watch the screen. I get a feel for when the balance will be ready.

It really seems like common sense when to use what battlerage ability.

My biggest problem is running out of endurance because I can bash so long in one area (have gone from 77-almost 80 since Saturday morning)

Definitely a big thanks to those who put work into this

Bluef

Ahmet said:

Bluef said:

Atalkez said:

Working in customer service, I agree with you to a certain extent. There are some customers you're not going to please. There are going to be some customers that will cry at the smallest most insignificant things, just to be heard. 

I'm not saying that you're one of these people. What I am saying though is if (assuming we have a community of 500 total people) 75% of the customer base (players) is lauding the changes, then the 25% are simply going to get ignored and/or ridiculed. We don't know what information they have on their side. All of the ideas/bugs may include a "attaboy" too.

If the pros outweigh the cons, and the voices of change outweigh the voices of the status quo, then it's only logical that you'll be met with less than desired results. I'm sure your personal character history has something to do with some responses you've gotten, as people struggle to be objective. I'm just giving you my point of view!

I appreciate your input! The thing is that only a very small percentage of Achaeans use the forums, so it's really difficult to say who is lauding it and who is struggling with the new hunting system based on it. I mean many people lurk because they're afraid posting will end up with them getting ridiculed for their concerns. 

But either way, the 25% shouldn't be ignored or ridiculed, particularly by the people representing the company. My character's history, which I think has been wildly exaggerated (I've never been punished IC for anything beyond shrine defilement), hasn't stopped IRE from taking thousands of dollars from me, so why it would factor into the way I'm treated by those who work for the company doesn't make sense. Every company has customers you don't like to work with or service, but you keep your gameface on throughout. 

Alaskar said:

I keep getting crits on my stupid windlash thing, lol. So the CRUSHING CRITICAL I got is like...16 damage, lol. It wasn't even 1% of health. Still, looks cool getting all those crits.

At least you're getting crits. I didn't see many yesterday during testing. My crit counter showed my rate at 25%, which is considerably lower than I'm used to and pretty much makes my Level 3 pendant feel like a waste of $400.

Just fyi, you can't crit the event denizens, so that may be skewing your numbers.
BTW, I'd be happy to help you out with setting stuff up if you need help.

Thank you. I appreciate that!

I haven't even tried to hunt those even denizens (you need to do them in groups and Bluef isn't being invited to any of those any time soon). 

Ahmet

Bluef said:

Tael said:

You can make a temptimer with an echo. You don't need to be a "coder" to do that. At all. You can literally copy+paste one line. Then just add that to the alias/keybind you use for the battlerage ability, or trigger it to the message you get when you hit with the battlerage ability. Here you go: tempTimer(16.00, [[echo("Corruption is off cooldown.")]])

You can ameliorate the spam problem by putting the rage number into your prompt and using CONFIG to turn off the rage lines. Both of these are very easy to do - HELP BATTLERAGE explains how to do them (if you just do CONFIG PROMPT ALL, rage will get added, and CONFIG RAGEGAINMSG OFF will get rid of the line). Once you do that, the spam will be exactly the same as it used to be

Thanks. The prompt thing won't work though. I'm using a custom prompt with SVO and my prompt is already huge. I can't add anything more to it. 

I think people believe I'm trolling them, but honestly this just reads like, "You can make a redzebra with a yellowelephant" to me. When I hear unfamiliar words my brain just can't process them. Sure, I know what a tempTimer is in theory, but how to set up something like this for every ability is overwhelming. I want to hunt and I can't effectively. That's frustrating. 

Shout out to Veldrin too, who was really nice and sent me an XML file, where I have to substitute my skills into it. Unfortunately, it just looks like gibberish to me. I'd not even know where to start with that. I'll ask Kaie if he can help me later today set some things up (hopefully he can be asked because he's not busy playing Cow Clicker). 

Thanks again!

Its the comments like that that get people all pissy with you
EDIT: My offer to help out still stands, but yah.

Herose

I just trigger the rage line to show me what rage skills I can do at the moment.  Then manually do them. 

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/bfebf131


I'm really liking the changes so far!

Bluef

Ahmet said:

Shout out to Veldrin too, who was really nice and sent me an XML file, where I have to substitute my skills into it. Unfortunately, it just looks like gibberish to me. I'd not even know where to start with that. I'll ask Kaie if he can help me later today set some things up (hopefully he can be asked because he's not busy playing Cow Clicker). 

Thanks again!

Its the comments like that that get people all pissy with you
EDIT: My offer to help out still stands, but yah.

Oh, I was serious! P9 did get addicted the cookie clicker gamer for a while a couple months ago. But it's also the fact that he's the only person I can ask for help IRL and I'm not sure how down he'll be to do that knowing I was just publicly ridiculed here.

Vicious

dude lower denizen hp, jfc

Ihsiira

Wow. So much rage. I literally dfk where the idea that BR is for leet coders/PVPers came from. In 12ish years of playing IRE games, I've had 2 (3, max) PVP kills. Ever. And my system right now consists of 3 aliases - iron and the two BR abilities I have.
This is beyond inane.