Battlerage

Bluef

Sena said:

I'll simplify the shaman strategy even more, and use explicit numbers:

If you have 16 rage and corruption isn't on cooldown, use corruption.
If you have 36 rage and haemorrhage isn't on cooldown, use haemorrhage.

95% of the time, that's good enough, you're done, there's nothing else to worry about. If you want to go a little more complex:

If you have 16 rage and corruption isn't on cooldown, use corruption.
If you have 36 rage, haemorrhage isn't on cooldown, and you aren't about to kill the denizen with something else in the next few seconds, use haemorrhage. You might also want to switch this with the first step, and use haemorrhage before corruption. Either way is fine.
If you have 25 rage, vurus isn't on cooldown, corruption and haemorrhage are on cooldown, use vurus if you want.
If you have 18 rage, cesaret isn't on cooldown, and the enemy is under 20% health, use cesaret if you want, to keep them from shielding.

Edit: This is for solo bashing, group bashing has more things you might want to take into account, like someone being able to give afflictions for vurus. But sticking with this in groups will still work fine.

Thanks, Sena. I appreciate this breakdown, but given that I have no way of knowing what's on cooldown (and I'm terrified now that the addition of cooldown message are going to make hunting even spammier than it already is), I don't know how I'd keep track of all this. It's incredibly complicated compared to one alias hunting. I'd need a lot of triggers, tempTimers and echoes. Again, coding. Which I'm not skilled at creating.

I get that some of you have echoes and timers all kinds of things for PvP and this is just second nature, but I have never had any of that for PvP. I started playing Achaea when everyone manualed everything. I have survived as a shaman without having an affliction tracker. I didn't even have a doll tracker until a couple years ago. That's not because I'm not intelligent enough to figure it out; it's because I know my limitations and anything coding is like math to me. I don't have a talent for it and whenever I've tried to "learn" how to play better it's just been frustrating as hell because it's not my forte. That was fine before because you could opt out of complicated PvP, but now hunting is requiring this kind of thing too and it's maddening that some of you can't understand that the things you're writing are probably so easy and basic to you, but to many, many people in Achaea they're not. This change has been overwhelming and frustrating because hunting was the one thing I still loved and could do as a rogue in Achaea. 

Antonius

Sarapis has already said that the HTML5 client is going to have a UI that shows what's available for usage, so I guess you're probably going to need to have something similar if you're using a different client. However, as usual, there are at least a couple of people willing to do the work to create that and provide it to those who don't have the ability to do the coding themselves (and are also unwilling to learn how to do it).

Alaskar

For coding help, see the Mudlet Clan. I've never received less than three answers to any question I've asked on there. Also, I -suck- at coding and PVP. And I do mean suck. I have 46 adventurer kills. It's that awful. I'm using manual abilities, and a timer I downloaded and just adjust names/times for to let me know when an ability is available again. 

It's not just people who enjoy PVP and coders who like the changes. Don't assume you speak for everyone outside of those two categories. The fact is, there is nothing more abysmal than repeatedly watching the same sets of text go by while you press the same button, over and over, with so little thought involved that you could almost fall asleep while doing it. This offers a new dynamic to PvE without requiring the same amount of knowledge that PvP requires. The complainants seem to equate new PvE with serpent combat or something. Can you multitask and bash now? Nope. Or, at least, not without difficulty. Is that a bad thing? Not in my, and I think many others', opinion.

If you could flat-out tank a group or denizen before, you can now. If you could only win through outdamaging the group, then no, you can't bash those same denizens.

Also, group bashing is no longer mindlessly following someone and mashing an alias or key. Now there's coordination, and the ability to apply strategy to take down mobs that might have previously been above that groups level.

I feel like what was arguably the most archaic/simple aspect of one of the most in-depth and complex games in existence has finally been brought up to par with the rest of the game. And I'm happy my IRE elite helped fund the changes.

Questions again, as I kind of snuck them in:

Are battlerage abilities affected by artefacts/stats?
Does sensitivity affect damage from other battlerage abilities? It didn't seem to on the golem
Plans for BR-related artefacts?
Next batch of changes? 
What determines how much rage is generated? I seem to get more from punches and kicks than staffcasts.
Plans to release artefacts that improve battlerage collection/cooldown/usage/recovery?

Bluef

Antonius said:

Sarapis has already said that the HTML5 client is going to have a UI that shows what's available for usage, so I guess you're probably going to need to have something similar if you're using a different client. However, as usual, there are at least a couple of people willing to do the work to create that and provide it to those who don't have the ability to do the coding themselves (and are also unwilling to learn how to do it).

I'm not unwilling. I'm not able. Trust me. My mind doesn't wrap around things like this. I've tried to learn to code, many times. It doesn't make any sense to me after a certain point. So please stop suggesting that we're not willing to invest in our own success in-game. It's demeaning and unnecessary. 

Cynlael

I -just- told you, step by step, how to make tempTimers, holy f-.
 <edited out because of Tecton's post below>

Alaskar said:

What determines how much rage is generated? I seem to get more from punches and kicks than staffcasts.

Attack speed determines it. Hence why shamans, and to a lesser extent blademasters, have abysmal rage generation.

Sena

Alaskar said:

What determines how much rage is generated? I seem to get more from punches and kicks than staffcasts.

The longer the balance/eq, the more rage you get. That means everyone generally gains rage at about the same rate, regardless of attack speed.

Tecton

We're also in the process of adding some more user-friendly elements to the game itself to help people out - so you'll know when an ability becomes available, as well as when it's cooldown ends. Naturally, we're not trying to force anyone into -having- to script things in their client just to use an in-game system at the most basic level.

Bluef

Alaskar said:

For coding help, see the Mudlet Clan. I've never received less than three answers to any question I've asked on there. Also, I -suck- at coding and PVP. And I do mean suck. I have 46 adventurer kills. It's that awful. I'm using manual abilities, and a timer I downloaded and just adjust names/times for to let me know when an ability is available again. 

It's not just people who enjoy PVP and coders who like the changes. Don't assume you speak for everyone outside of those two categories.

I never receive any help on that clan because Achaea is a popularity contest and I'm currently coming in last place. It wouldn't matter if I did though: I don't understand enough of it to even use what I'm being told or given successfully. I don't know why people can't grasp that. 

I also never said I was speaking for everyone. I'm speaking for the people who are too afraid of the jerks here who condescend and call them dense because they aren't equipped to handle these changes, which were integrated without much player support. 

Atalkez

@Bluef

If spam is a concern, try this out.

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/f22fb71c

This is what it looks like in effect. Just trigger the line you want, so like:

^You may now use BattleRage again$

and in the box you can put:

cecho("\n<blue>                                                  Smoked Smoked Smoked Smoked Smoked!!")

That line will fire when it sees the other line. The spaces make it so that it's in the right side of the window instead of the left, and a different color than hunting spam.

I use it for my affliction tracking so I can see what they eat. Can be used to the same effect during the spam of hunting if you wanted to!

It is very very simple. You can change the color anytime you want, and you can change how long it is by backspacing some of the spaces. I know it has been said before, but if you have questions about stuff I'm sure people will be more than willing to help you out. I know it can be daunting, but give the changes some time to work out the kinks, I think you'll be okay!

Jules

Sooo, as I'd mentioned, I've finally started really understanding coding on a basic level (thanks Imperian), but has anyone else noticed how this thread is going?  "You don't need to code at all for this".  "I am coding something for this".  "If you're not coding something for this you're a lazy stupid fucker you need to get gud".  "Holy shit I just shared some code with you and you still don't get it you lazy idiot". 

Dunn

my bashing alias literally just fires stand/vault pegasus/onslaught &tar/collide &tar/get gold/put money in hat/dsl &tar 

and it works fine. I spent -all- morning trying to do up an event based serverside alias setting script based on rage levels and ability cooldowns...

You don't need that and it's more of a pain in the ass to set up than it's worth.

Bluef

Atalkez said:

@Bluef

If spam is a concern, try this out.

Thanks! But one question: Won't this increase spam, not lessen it? I'd just be adding another echo to what is already flying by every 1s: Attack+crit hit++battlerage counter+swiftcurse counter.

Also...there is no ^You may now use X again$ message for shaman battlerage, unless it was added in the last hour or so anyway (?). 

Jonathin

I just have a few keybinds. No point in going any more complex.

Sarapis

Bluef said:

 But some of us plebes don't have any interest in mastery of game mechanics.

I'd suggest that playing a game is a bad way to spend your time if you're not interested in game mechanics. This is not an RP chatroom. It's a game, first and foremost. If you want a game that is all about hitting a single button and no mechanics beyond that, the perfect game has already been made!

Atalkez

Jules said:

Sooo, as I'd mentioned, I've finally started really understanding coding on a basic level (thanks Imperian), but has anyone else noticed how this thread is going?  "You don't need to code at all for this".  "I am coding something for this".  "If you're not coding something for this you're a lazy stupid fucker you need to get gud".  "Holy shit I just shared some code with you and you still don't get it you lazy idiot". 

This is my hunting setup;

^sla$

send("clearalias x1;setalias x1 stand/drawslash &tar/consider &tar/show rage;queue add eqbal x1")

^boom$

send("clearalias x1;setalias x1 stand/leapstrike &tar/spinslash &tar/strike &tar head/drawslash &tar/consider &tar/show rage;queue add eqbal x1")

^sd$

send("clearalias x1;setalias x1 stand/shin daze &tar/drawslash &tar/consider &tar/show rage;queue add eqbal x1")

That's it. No highlights, no tracking, no gmcp buttons I can click to make birds whistle and shit when I attack. Oldschool

Jules

Dunn said:

my bashing alias literally just fires stand/vault pegasus/onslaught &tar/collide &tar/get gold/put money in hat/dsl &tar 

and it works fine. I spent -all- morning trying to do up an event based serverside alias setting script based on rage levels and ability cooldowns...

You don't need that and it's more of a pain in the ass to set up than it's worth.

Dunn, this was pretty much what I was going to do (and yes, even I can do something like that) as of yesterday.  Not optimal, but probably works?  But, they did just say they plan on changing that so you can't just blindly cycle through the battlerage abilities until/if one works.  They do also plan on adding regular text lines that say when you can use an ability though, which is definitely easier to work with.  

Atalkez

Bluef said:

Atalkez said:

@Bluef

If spam is a concern, try this out.

Thanks! But one question: Won't this increase spam, not lessen it? I'd just be adding another echo to what is already flying by every 1s: Attack+crit hit++battlerage counter+swiftcurse counter.

Also...there is no ^You may now use X again$ message for shaman battlerage? Unless it was added in the last hour or so anyway (?). 

No there is no message for this yet, but @Sarapis already said it was going to be added today. Just gotta get the lines when they are available.

It will increase spam, but in a way you can see it. All you have to watch for is the little (color) floater to the right to let you know it's available. You add more lines for bigger highlights if you wanted. Rudimentary and simple, but it works.

Alaskar

Did honors mobs have their health similarly increased?

Atalkez

Alaskar said:

Did honors mobs have their health similarly increased?

All mobs, so yes.

Bluef

Sarapis said:

Bluef said:

 But some of us plebes don't have any interest in mastery of game mechanics.

I'd suggest that playing a game is a bad way to spend your time if you're not interested in game mechanics. This is not an RP chatroom. It's a game, first and foremost. If you want a game that is all about hitting a single button and no mechanics beyond that, the perfect game has already been made!

I'd suggest that people here follow the lead of your lack of empathy and generally unhelpful and insulting tone. I have stated, several times now (and apparently you read past every one) that it's not a lack of interest but a lack of wherewithal. I don't understand mechanics or coding because my brain doesn't wrap itself around things that way. I'm very language-oriented, not math/logic based. If you're suggesting that you need to be able to master game mechanics to do simple things like bash in Achaea now though, I don't know why I'm even bothering to try to figure it out. 

Sarapis

Santar said:

Jhui said:

looks like a lot of fun. Wish u guys would reset everyone's honor mobs kills so everyone has incentives to learn the most complex aspects of this system and have fun regetting those lines for the next few years 

Would be an enormous slap in the face for people who put in the time and effort to already do this.

Not something we'd do.

Sarapis

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

Bluef said:

 But some of us plebes don't have any interest in mastery of game mechanics.

I'd suggest that playing a game is a bad way to spend your time if you're not interested in game mechanics. This is not an RP chatroom. It's a game, first and foremost. If you want a game that is all about hitting a single button and no mechanics beyond that, the perfect game has already been made!

I'd suggest that people here follow the lead of your lack of empathy and generally unhelpful tone. I have stated, several times now (and apparently you read past every one) that it's not a lack of interest but a lack of wherewithal. I don't understand mechanics or coding because my brain doesn't wrap itself around things that way. I'm very language-oriented, not math/logic based. If you're suggesting that you need to be able to master game mechanics to do simple things like bash in Achaea now though, I hope you include that in your welcome information for all the newbies you're reaping in from that recent newsletter blast. 

I suggest that in any game you play, of any kind, there are game mechanics to master. They are the literal definition of a game. If your complaint is that you don't like game mechanics, you're in the wrong place.

Bluef

Sarapis said:

I suggest that in any game you play, of any kind, there are game mechanics to master. They are the literal definition of a game. If your complaint is that you don't like game mechanics, you're in the wrong place.

Again, I didn't say I didn't like the game mechanics. I said I had trouble understanding them. Until yesterday, the literal definition of the game's mechanics didn't involve me because I didn't PvP. Why you want to lose a long-term customer (because you're basically pushing me out the door right now) doesn't really make sense to me. But I'll say it again: Your attitude and tone on these boards sets the level by which everyone else posts. It's easy to see why some people think it's perfectly alright to call some people stupid for not understanding things they find easy and manageable. 

Theris

Tecton said:

We're also in the process of adding some more user-friendly elements to the game itself to help people out - so you'll know when an ability becomes available, as well as when it's cooldown ends. Naturally, we're not trying to force anyone into -having- to script things in their client just to use an in-game system at the most basic level.

Just a preemptive request: when notifications for battlerage ability resets get added, could we have a unique CONFIG COLOUR option for it? That would be lovely.

Borran

I can't do any scripting on my own to any extent either, but I also don't feel the need to master Battlerage overnight. 

I made some keybindings to use the extra abilities (and do a party tell announcing what afflictions it gives according to the AB file) and I just bash as I normally do, occasionally hitting the other buttons when it looks like I have a lot of rage. For the first 30 minutes, I thought the abilities consumed balance so I was weighing if I wanted to GUT the creature or use this new ability on it. I was so relieved to find out it didn't! Now it's like having monk's access to multiple crits!

It may not be efficient, and I may be doing everything wrong, but I'm sure it's something I'll learn in time and slowly perfect. I'll talk to someone about 'hunting' and they'll explain how their amnesia mechanic works and I'll be like "Oh! That's fascinating. I've been using this frost breath thing that gives amnesia for years! I never knew how helpful that was." And we'll have laughs and drinks and maybe go hunting afterward (hopefully whilst sober)

Change makes things different. Different isn't always bad. 

Sarapis

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

I suggest that in any game you play, of any kind, there are game mechanics to master. They are the literal definition of a game. If your complaint is that you don't like game mechanics, you're in the wrong place.

Again, I didn't say I didn't like the game mechanics. I said I had trouble understanding them. Until yesterday, the literal definition of the game's mechanics didn't involve me because I didn't PvP. Why you want to lose a long-term customer (because you're basically pushing me out the door right now) doesn't really make sense to me. But I'll say it again: Your attitude and tone on these boards sets the level by which everyone else posts. It's easy to see why some people think it's perfectly alright to call some people stupid for not understanding things they find easy and manageable. 

I'm not calling anyone stupid for whether they find this easy and manageable or not any more than I am for any game mechanic. If you have trouble understanding them, well, not everybody is going to be as good at everything as everybody else. It's the nature of a game. Some people can't RP their way out of a wet paper bag, whereas you can, for instance. You can also certainly hunt, whether it will be as efficiently as someone else or not, just like someone less good at RP can still RP, whether they can do it as well or not.

Not sure where you'd get the idea that the game's mechanics don't involve you because you don't PvP. Every single thing you do that the game recognizes as a command is part of a game mechanic. 

I don't want to lose any long-term customers, but I doubt there's ever been any significant change in the history of Achaea that someone didn't like , and it is what it is: We make decisions for the good of the game now and game in the future, not one individual player, however vocal.

Sarapis

Theris said:

Tecton said:

We're also in the process of adding some more user-friendly elements to the game itself to help people out - so you'll know when an ability becomes available, as well as when it's cooldown ends. Naturally, we're not trying to force anyone into -having- to script things in their client just to use an in-game system at the most basic level.

Just a preemptive request: when notifications for battlerage ability resets get added, could we have a unique CONFIG COLOUR option for it? That would be lovely.

Good idea. Will be added.

Klendathu

When it is in a releasable state, I will be giving my rage stuff away for free, as I have done with most of the other stuff I have written. It will cover all classes. Hope that helps @Bluef @Jules and everyone else who is less than happy.

Morthif

Morthif said:

@Sarapis / @Tecton

In the sake of synergy with bloodsworn and since Paladin doesn't give any afflictions could we change what Priest gives to work with Paladins Punishment?

Asking again in hope for a response.

Santar

There's not a whole lot of legitimacy to these complaints.

The new system is -not- overbearing. It is more complex than the former "kill target x 10" strategy, but it's definitely nothing to lose your shit over.

There's plenty of people that play this game just fine and don't do any coding. As far as coding goes, this new system is pretty low-end on the coding needs, compared to some other parts of Achaea. 

The current system is definitely manual-able without much trouble. You just need to make a couple extra buttons and look more closely at your screen while bashing. If you don't want to do that, and you also can't code whatsoever, then there's still the option of using someone else's scripts. Do you really think nobody is going to release bashing scripts?