Battlerage

Kayeil

heh. I'm shaman dragon, too... and some of those areas I'd DEFINITELY not do in lesser. Shaman so squishy. They're totally fine in dragon, though.

Draekar

Daeir said:

Damage yourself to 50%. Sip health. See how much % it raises you. Set your siphealth to 100 minus that percent, minus 3%. Now when you sip health, you'll always get the absolute maximum you can get from that, and an additional 3% from the moss you should be eating plus a small buffer for bleeding.

You're wasting sip and health regen otherwise.

You scrubs. Dragons don't need to worry about wasting sips and moss when they are rolling in all the hunting gold they earn.

I also can't work out how Bluef is struggling to hunt at her level with arties etc... What ever it is it isn't a product of the battlerage system.

Tael

@Bluef With a ceylonese ring and 5847 health, you want to be sipping at around 81% (your average sip should be ~19% of your health) and using moss/potash at around 73% (since moss is 8%).

Bluef

Tael said:

@Bluef With a ceylonese ring and 5847 health, you want to be sipping at around 81% (your average sip should be ~19% of your health) and using moss/potash at around 73% (since moss is 8%).

I tried Daeir's formula and it has me moving my sip percentage down to like 77%. But! From a discussion about this very thing on P9:

(Project 9): XXXXXXX says, "I see that working if there are multiple things, but, if it's only one, and she sets sip to 75% and the first few hits leave her at 77%, the next will drop her to 54% and she'll only heal to 77%."

I can't only heal to 77%. I need to fully heal each and every time. I'm already having problems staying alive, heh. This all just underscores for me how complicated hunting has become. I feel like I need a stiff drink and a good cry.

Draekar said:

Daeir said:

Damage yourself to 50%. Sip health. See how much % it raises you. Set your siphealth to 100 minus that percent, minus 3%. Now when you sip health, you'll always get the absolute maximum you can get from that, and an additional 3% from the moss you should be eating plus a small buffer for bleeding.

You're wasting sip and health regen otherwise.

You scrubs. Dragons don't need to worry about wasting sips and moss when they are rolling in all the hunting gold they earn.

I also can't work out how Bluef is struggling to hunt at her level with arties etc... What ever it is it isn't a product of the battlerage system.

I had zero problems hunting until this new system was introduced. The problem, quite simply, is that I can't stand there and trade 30 hits with a denizen. I'm not built for that.

Melodie

I know we're in a thriving debate, but I thought this would be better addressed here than rants thread:

Has anyone noticed the denizens seemed to have dropped off in the Tasur'ke beachfront? I'm not sure if there's less spawn, or just so many more people (including Penwize who has taken up bashing there at all hours, which he IS a machine). It's likely the second - if so, is there a chance of upping the spawn any, or something to that effect?

Tael

Well, the health issue has always been this complicated. Though it sounds like you didn't need to worry about it much because you were killing so fast.

Regardless of what you set it to, after a fight, you still may need to "top off". Usually, with some regeneration and a boar, this won't be a problem, but it's not a terrible idea to have an alias to sip health. Or you can have an alias that temporarily sets your threshold to 100%.

Ultimately though, there is a fundamental tension in setting your health sip value - if you set it to less than 100%, then you're going to end up introducing inefficiency whenever the first attack doesn't cross your threshold, but then the second attack brings your damage to more than you can heal in one sip. However, if you set it higher than about ~81% for you (this is the average sip, not your minimum or maximum sip value, which some people prefer to use instead), then your first sip is going to have some wasted portion of the healing whenever the mob does less than 19% damage (i.e., the first sip will overheal you).

There isn't really a "right answer". I guess if you knew the damage and attack speed of a given denizen, you could theoretically figure out what the best sip/moss threshold for that one denizen would be, but there's no universal solution.

Sarathai

@Bluef

I was about to log out, but noticed you saying those areas are impossible for you to bash. So I dragonformed (you have it, don't ignore it) and decided to test the Delos Guards and Vertani. The only hunting artifact I have that you don't is level 3 bracelets.

I slaughtered them. The only times I had to leave a room were against Rakwor when he started chaining his super-hit, once against Vewig when I was taking forever to writhe (which dragonflex would have solved), once against Damek (mega-hit while writhing and with a second Feranki mage in the room), and once against Miingruan (all the stun). So the usual suspects, and for the usual reasons.

Doing both areas took me about forty minutes. The only reason they did take that long, incidentally, is the Vertani soldier stun attack slowing me down and the fact that after Delos I stopped to offer and then for another several minutes to work out some server-side aliases that chain a rage attack to my gut/incantation/blast.

If you can't handle Vertani in lesserform, just dragonform. It is not particularly hard and not particularly slow.

Tael

@Tecton The limit on shielding is a real breath of fresh air. It seems the only remaining issue with shields is that recklessness isn't quite as useful now - if they can only shield every 10 seconds anyway, 9 seconds during which they can't shield is pretty lackluster.

Makaela

@Tael time the reckless for that last second or... Team up with someone who gets bonus damage to reckless foes

Sarathai

Melodie said:

Has anyone noticed the denizens seemed to have dropped off in the Tasur'ke beachfront? I'm not sure if there's less spawn, or just so many more people (including Penwize who has taken up bashing there at all hours, which he IS a machine). It's likely the second - if so, is there a chance of upping the spawn any, or something to that effect?

Honestly, I think it's just that more and more people are starting to work out the most efficient ways of killing the undead there. When the event started, we were running around in groups of 12+ dragons and dying all over, even the big artiedragons. Now I regularly see 2-3 groups of 3-4 people each (plus a couple of solo hunters) doing just fine at keeping it cleared.

It's not that there are more people, so much as we're getting a handle on the system.

Athelas

Sat down yesterday to figure out how druid battle rage works.

Eventually I figured out that I could do a sequince of battle rage actions, that allowed for the use of available rage while using abilities that are not in cool down.

So I'd start with either strangle or glare, then do a redeem followed with sear, by that time I could strangle/glare again, so I'd do that rather than try to go for a ravage.

I've been bashing successfully ever since.

The wasps in Harae are way more deadly after this change though, I used to be able to cake walk 3 wasps in an area, now I don't dare take on more than 2 at a time. The same applies to just about any grouping mob. As I've seen the same with inmates in Creville.

All things concidered, I think this is a great addition to the game.

Ruth

I'm squishier as a monk (5.3k health, lv.1 mayan bracelets and ring, lv.1 crit pendant) so hunting with new battlerage abilities needs a bit more strategy from me instead of using them randomly.

Nonetheless, I had like. The most fun trying different combinations to get the most rage and damage. It has also made me suicidal by convincing me to see how I'll do against the group of 9 zombie undead in Azdun. (I managed to kill them by a bit of hit-and-run.)

Jarrod

Actually, people hunting solo is why the Tasur'ke area is so unpopulated. It's really easy to tank lots of things, so solo people will end up with a lot of shit in their room and take exceptionally long to kill them. Results in really slow progress, less spawning because less is dying, etc.

If people formed into groups of 5-10 again it would be really quick again, assuming they moved even remotely efficiently.

Bluef

Sarathai said:

@Bluef

I was about to log out, but noticed you saying those areas are impossible for you to bash. So I dragonformed (you have it, don't ignore it) and decided to test the Delos Guards and Vertani. The only hunting artifact I have that you don't is level 3 bracelets.

I slaughtered them. The only times I had to leave a room were against Rakwor when he started chaining his super-hit, once against Vewig when I was taking forever to writhe (which dragonflex would have solved), once against Damek (mega-hit while writhing and with a second Feranki mage in the room), and once against Miingruan (all the stun). So the usual suspects, and for the usual reasons.

Doing both areas took me about forty minutes. The only reason they did take that long, incidentally, is the Vertani soldier stun attack slowing me down and the fact that after Delos I stopped to offer and then for another several minutes to work out some server-side aliases that chain a rage attack to my gut/incantation/blast.

If you can't handle Vertani in lesserform, just dragonform. It is not particularly hard and not particularly slow.

Dragonform just isn't enjoyable for me. I'm used to bashing attacks that fire every 1s. Dragon, as a result, feels like moving through heavy molasses:

Gut...1....2...3....Gut...1....2...3....Gut...1....2...3....Gut...1....2...3.... as compared to
Swiftcurse.Swiftcurse.Swiftcurse.Swiftcurse. Swiftcurse.Swiftcurse.

Obviously there are some new abilities tossed in the mix for both forms, but overall I don't feel like I'm slaughtering much when I'm in Dform, I feel like I'm dragging. I hate the sense that I can't move when I want to. Perception is a big part of what makes hunting enjoyable for me. I'd rather not hunt at all than ever subject myself to being bored doing something that's supposed to be entertianing. But thank you for the suggestion!

Sarathai

Bluef said:

Obviously there are some new abilities tossed in the mix for both forms, but overall I don't feel like I'm slaughtering much when I'm in Dform, I feel like I'm dragging. I hate the sense that I can't move when I want to.

If all you want is attack speed and to move through areas as fast as you used to, then you're just going to need to hunt smaller things. You'll feel like you're accomplishing more (you won't be, but you'll feel like it), and you won't need to use the dragonform that you hate.

Or just do what Penwize seems to do and buy a (level 3?) dirk for repeated stabbing.

Antonius

Paladin is ridiculously tanky with Battlerage now. On the couple of tests I've done, I've ended up needing to run less than I would have needed to before on larger groups, especially if I'm carrying some rage over from previous fights to get things like Regeneration running the moment I first need them; gaining health every time you take a hit is incredible for rooms with a lot of enemies.

Here's a log doing the nine vampires (plus some other undead) in Azdun solo: https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/071186e8

So far my biggest (only) issue is areas getting cleared in random patches rather than a set route through the rooms, so I'm losing rage while finding things to kill.

Arador

Half this thread is a case of "Spot the people who hunted things too big for them, relying on quick kills to survive."

Aktillum

Maybe not all mobs have been buffed and ones that were already beefy remained the same, while other areas like Dun Fort got beefed up some. Just speculating here, otherwise I dunno why Bluef suddenly can't handle certain areas. I killed Delos Guards and they did exactly the same damage to me that they've always done, and I killed them in pretty much the same speed I always have, using staffcast with a couple of the new battlerage abilities thrown in.

I haven't been out bashing other areas because Jhui.

Sarathai

Aktillum said:

Maybe not all mobs have been buffed and ones that were already beefy remained the same, while other areas like Dun Fort got beefed up some. Just speculating here, otherwise I dunno why Bluef suddenly can't handle certain areas. I killed Delos Guards and they did exactly the same damage to me that they've always done, and I killed them in pretty much the same speed I always have, using staffcast with a couple of the new battlerage abilities thrown in.

I haven't been out bashing other areas because Jhui.

Delos guards definitely got buffed as far as health is concerned. I went from doing 8% or so with a gut to doing about 2.5% with the same attack. They didn't get a damage boost, though.

Unfortunately I don't have mob health in my Mudlet log file, but Colbey took fourteen guts and a blast (counting criticals as x2, crushing as x4, etc.) five days ago. Today when I tested for what I mentioned above he took 39+ guts (final was a WSC, so I don't know how much more he could have taken without a % that I don't remember) and a psiblast.

Antonius

Damage on Dun fortress isn't any higher than it used to be. It's simply as Arador said: people are realising how untanky they actually are because they're not getting a kill every few seconds, and actually have to tank damage now.

Aktillum

@Sarathai I'll test in a bit, I dropped Colbey to 35% health in a few staffcasts while throwing in a few Battlerage abilities. But I also have a level 2 collar. I last-hit him with a WSC though, same as you, but he was at 35% when I did it.

Just remembered, I also used the Mage brage skill that gives mobs sensitivity affliction, dunno how much that helped, I'll test that also.

Telendrieth

I'll admit, I've always thought paladin would be neat, but never really gave it much beyond that thought. With those battlerage skills? I'd really rather love to play one. Too bad the Holy duet is a bit too nutters/zealous for me.

Borran

Antonius said:

Paladin is ridiculously tanky with Battlerage now. On the couple of tests I've done, I've ended up needing to run less than I would have needed to before on larger groups, especially if I'm carrying some rage over from previous fights to get things like Regeneration running the moment I first need them; gaining health every time you take a hit is incredible for rooms with a lot of enemies.

Here's a log doing the nine vampires (plus some other undead) in Azdun solo: https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/071186e8

So far my biggest (only) issue is areas getting cleared in random patches rather than a set route through the rooms, so I'm losing rage while finding things to kill.

Does it make you rage?

Rangor

that regen paired with defend on whoever is getting focused.

Exelethril

If anyone wants to sell GUI bashing stuff to me, now's the time

Santar

The only people I can see having a really rough time are 'baby' dragons.

If you're a 6600 health newbie dragon with no SoA and no health arties, these changes might've hurt your chances at doing sidhe, unsidhe, and DKs, since you're probably not able to legitimately tank a lot of the rooms.

Dunn

@Antonius Regen is cool for pally! Runy gets something called bulwark that is a flat 25% dmg reduction. Mm

Also please post your battle rage abilities. I'm curious what other classes have. 

Szeth

Dunn said:

Also please post your battle rage abilities. I'm curious what other classes have. 

They're posted on the wiki, courtesy of @Halos, @Sybilla and probably others.

Aegoth

I'm still of the opinion that Battlerage dies out -way- too quickly, even with the balance/eq fix. This is especially true in areas where mobs are more spread out, or when you're facing a particularly strong mob/group and need to hit/run. I'd up it to 20 or 25 seconds

Kerria

I feel stupid for asking this... But I'm really struggling here with learning the new system. Could someone that knows the runewarden things message me, either here or in game. I can't seem to figure out how all these new abilities tie in together and how cooldowns work. I'm kinda floundering and button mashing at this point.