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Comments
And as @Ayami said - that's also true. Many Cyrenians do have misinformation on these topics. I shouldn't be so bitchy, but it's just nice to get it out
1-shallam did have the population we lost probably about 100+ players in the whole transition both because of the whole refugees time and because of the unwelcoming front when we did actually get somewhere. (Of which I count at least half of the Sentaari and Paladins guilds who were pretty decent topping novice charts and such in that I think game wise we lost something that we won't regain.)
2-Chivalry should be tied to Honor it's that way when you learn lessons, all the help files say it, heck Gawains got quotes on it all over history documents the shift of Chivalry away from honor is a bad one. You wanna keep Paladins change chivalry to something else heck keep the skills just rename it (ALA Sylvans).
3-This is why I didn't join Targ in the first place (aside from political issues). Honor was the first thing you were quized on as an acolyte it defined being a templar as a co-equal characteristic in the church thoughts.
@Aodfionn -Do please message people before you inquisition. There are times when people are open to that kind of thing but on a Completely OOC level if you've had a crap day at work and you login to work on org projects and somebody comes up to be a tool to your character that day it's probably not going to end well and not going to be enjoyable by both sides. This is an OOC decency issue. Plus messaging lets them schedule it so it gets their full attention not just "lets get this over with because I've got other crap to do" Promise people will be much more likely to RP with you if you do this... Half of my RP with Targ has been: Targ person: I'm going to interrupt whatever your doing because I'm right and I want you to do something right now. That's the wrong way to deal with things especially with older people who have orgs that depend on them or other crap. That'd be like me interrupting some major ceremony just because I wanted to argue with you (something I honestly try not to do they are too hard to put together for that to be a thing).
---As far as I'm concerned I'm snowballed with school so if you have some grand trial planned probably not the greatest time I login to check things then leave if I need to set aside time then I will I just have to know in advance.--- Or Heck since you probably are referring to only me Aurora or Deucalion can get ahold of me pretty easily.
--I feel like I need to write an OOC/IC decency file like lately all sides have been crossing lines I think maybe just my perspective though.--
(Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."
(Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
(Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
(Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
(Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."
(Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
(Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
(Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
The Goddess Miramar was slain in battle in 610 AF by Bal'met, the Worldreaver.
The Goddess Lorielan is a traitor bitch that no one should trust ever gorgeous and wonderful Goddess, whom everyone should kneel to.
Tell me again how the Te'Serra are coming back?
(Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."
(Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
(Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
(Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
- To love another person is to see the face of G/d
- Let me get my hat and my knife
- It's your apple, take a bite
- Don't dream it ... be it
@Verrucht Please for the love of everything forestals... I'll never play them but heck I miss non eleusian forestals. (Other than @Lisbethae and @Kaiu who are both saints). Either that or give us Runewarden as a faction specific.
(Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."
(Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
(Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
(Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
If you need something for Runewardens in particular: Totems, fueled by magic, the magic draws power from the earth, earth and nature stuff, ergo Eleusis deserves Runewardens and they look a bit like this.
There you go.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
I think anybody that knows me on both sides both IC and OOC knows I won't betray either side or do anything nasty to either side, but I do wish there was some tangible way for reconciliation instead of this. Cyrene and Targ have different philosophies but somehow always managed to travel along lines parallel to each other. People see Devotion as some sort of carrot on a stick, I always saw it as a connection. That connection just went bye-bye. And I think that sucks.
The fanatics want Achaea to be just like how their aging demented mind viewed it in their youth. And the carebears are afraid of retribution, they see it fitting for such a large sacrifice of playerbase so long as its not their RP/funtime getting stepped on in their sequestered hidy holes.
I blame the other IRE muds that aren't as competent as Achaea, they dump their trash players and badmins here. I think we need an Achaea 2 to be released or some manner of reboot. The game has been around so long that it is now treated as an elderly cripple.
On a completely OOC note i will miss quite a lot of you I've gotten to know over the years. @Yen @Baldazar @Kaiu @Greys @Iskla @Synbios @Draekar just to name a few. Just maybe when your older you'll come retire with us when you tire of ceaseless raids.
(Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."
(Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
(Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
(Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
I can not speak on other IRE games as I never played them.
Achaea just needs to find a middle of the road approach between player run and admin enforced Politics. The break off of Cyrene and Targ is a good example of this albier handled somewhat poorly.
With the return of Aurora and Deucalion, the slate was wiped clean. While "good is absolute and unchanging", that's only about what the "force" of good is, and not necessarily how mortals should follow it. For a bad analogy, consider visible light in real life; we've known for a long time pretty much the basics of how it works, but over time we gain a better understanding of exactly what's going on and ways we can manipulate it. It doesn't change the actual nature of light, only how we use it in our lives.
I feel like there was generally a huge wave to abandon devotion, starting with @Melodie getting excommunicated, but not really kicking in until Targossas proved once or twice that they didn't care much about recognizing Cyrenian law. I've seen people who made it part of their core identity switch, for the sole purpose of supporting Cyrene over Targossas. Some people never really went through with that, but I imagine if we stopped taking on new devotionists around that time, we'd probably have as many of those as we do forestals by now.
Probably, the fact we had any new devotionists at all is most likely @Aodfionn and his crew's fault for making the Diaspora so interesting and even attractive.
I do find it ironic, though, that it really felt like Targossans were starting to get that Cyrenians demand a certain amount of Respect(tm), and were starting to be better about that, only for this to happen, but I suppose it's just an almost tragically typical case of things seeming to look better right before they break.
I know Nim behaved coldly as well, but in her defense, she's cold toward everyone, and often overly brutal in philosophical debates.
I think you're spot on about that. That things were getting better and there was hope for something more than eternal resentment is probably why this actually turned south so fast. The wounds had barely scabbed over, much less healed, and it doesn't take much to reopen them. I imagine if things had been as strained as they were when Melodie was excommunicated, the situation would have played out much differently.
It seems there was an expectation of something more than polite indifference and when that expectation wasn't met things unraveled fairly quickly. It obviously wasn't as big of an event on the Targossian side as the Cyrenian but interesting RP is rare so I'm happy it happened. And happy that Cyrene is taking care of the Devotionists that stay. Targossas is poor and aiding the couple there was an obligation to help out would have probably caused Yen to kill the first Dawnlord she came across. It really is a tyranny of Yen in Targossas
-Nice to know some things never change no matter who wants them to or whose in charge.
(Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."
(Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
(Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
(Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
That aside, and I'll keep this as brief as possible, as I've been out of the scene a while:
Very shortly after my restoration to Devotion, the Lumeni was suddenly unwoven in front of all of us. I feel like this is an important other point of note that perhaps many didn't know about because of where Devotion was before it fizzed out. Aurora and Deucalion called all of us plus Verrucht to stand at the highway overlooking a broken land (basically where you can see Shallam's ruins) and right before us, told us they had decided that Devotion is to remain outside of Targossas' gates, but that the Lumeni weren't doing a good job of it, and gave us the Diaspora instead.
The reaction to this could have been exceptionally volatile, and nearly was. But I saw this as an opportunity to finally be on a better, if not the same, level of treatment and respect we had wanted from Shallam, and then Targossas, all these years. So I argued. For over an hour, with one person, and with several other people as time went on. I argued for the Diaspora, for the chance it had to give Devotionists an even playing field for the first time... ever. I was excited. I was even more excited when Aurora noticed and spoke to me about her thoughts of eventually, one day the Diaspora Council would host non-Targossian Devotionists. That became my dream, my hope, my future.
And then well. Things didn't go as expected.
You could say that's my fault. Maybe it is. Whether it's true or not (this isn't the place to argue it), the effect remains the same: It destroyed the hope I had, both as a character and as a player. Thus began the radical series of changes you all have witnessed to some degree, else I would have left Achaea, firmly, forever.
The reason I tell you all this is because I wanted to highlight the fact that somehow - don't ask me how - Aodfionn found out about the above: About my dreams for not just a clan, but a community, and the ability for Devotionists to have that even playing field, no matter your place of living. And he talked to me about them, even though I was Mhaldorian. First off, that meant a lot to me. Second off, I knew just how big of a challenge he had facing him, but it earned from me (and Melodie) an eternal respect for taking on a project literally every other Targossian had decided wasn't worth the effort.
So when I heard of the escalation of events (OOCly first, and then later IC) regarding the shop theft, and then Aldair's response and so on, I was at first immediately morose, because on a level I probably didn't quite want to acknowledge, I wanted Aodfionn to succeed. But as the days have been going by, I know its for the best, that it was time for Cyrene to move on from a storyline I and others invested two, five, eight, ten, twelve real years into, and for some of us, became our life and our characters... even though those characters eventually had to move on.
Now it's time to end one beautiful era and, I hope, for Cyrene to start a new one afresh that is just as complex and compelling, but something they can better control.
My only request (ha, because I have room for requests, yeah right) is that Devotion in Cyrene somehow leaves behind a legacy that's better than "Well some little shit robbed our shop and then we didn't have Devotion". I want to see all the crazy things that happened (Rho, Theodelinda and her story, the two Lumeni chapels, Shallam's fall, Targossas' rise, and everything after that) be remembered and passed on as a rich part of Cyrene's history. I'll be doing what I can IC, but I'm just a single person completely out of Cyrene's loop now.
Otherwise, it's time for us all to let go.
Cheers to those who made these times interesting and compelling, both in Cyrene, Targossas, or wherever else you are nowadays. Aodfionn, don't let the stamping out of your own hope keep you down for long.
Things get better.
That love soon might end You are unbreaking
And be known in its aching Though quaking
Shown in this shaking Though crazy
Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
Also really glad to see @Aurora again and to see @Deucalion is still about. Both have been near perfect in their understanding and speaking about Good/Devo etc since the changes. I expect nothing less during this next stage, and I think a lot of players could learn a lot from just studying what they have said and have to say on the matter.
Targossas and Cyrene have some really strong leadership as well in @Aldair and @Verrucht and it should be fun to see what sort of developments might progress in relationships between the two cities.
Also hi @Kakotas and @Itkovian ! We'll have to find a tavern somewhere to catch up ICly sometime!
One, being a priest outside Shallam/Targossas/Good used to be a free-for-all. Eph started as a Mojushaine priest, basing his "beliefs" partially on the tenants of humility and benevolence, seek to assist and no one is better than anyone else, in a newb understanding of it all. What that translated to was Cyrenians asking him to give their Ashtani friends blessings on their roads to dragonhood. (Back when there were far fewer dragons about.) Do you know how much money Eph made (and he never ever asked for or required it) from Ashtani who got those blessings? It was ridiculous.
Things did get better, with various Cyrenians already mentioned, Aerek and Melodie amidst them trying to at least steer devotional users into something better than a blatant disregard for good, much less Good. And I got better at that entire RP thing and even though my two favorite classes are probably priest and paladin, Eph stayed away from them because of a greater respect of Good that he gained from his friend Rho.
Which brings me to the second point. Yes, the garden probably wanted the opportunity to break apart the factions, but it was player driven as well. Just as militant Good's ascension was also player-driven at times as well. Personally, I remember Rho's first clan, which was secret and I've forgotten the name, where someone ratted him out to the Good divine at the time and he got in a lot of trouble. His second was the Anointed, which was done, if I recall correctly, with guidance/input from the garden and with their blessing essentially. There was a huge group of people who wanted a more defined, more purposeful Good that couldn't be so easily debated, and it was a player-driven move that eventually led to Rho excommunicating the world. (By the way I know it was far more than just Rho driving these events, but he was Eph's point of contact in everything.)
Anyway, all this is to say, yes, this happened suddenly, but at the same time it's also been happening for at least the decade since I found Achaea. And a whole lot of it came from players who really wanted Good to be defined in a militaristic fashion and who wanted devotion to be kept in line with that version of Good.
TLDR: This entire thing stems from a much delayed fix after the ascent of houses/autoclass. Essentially.
also, ps. sorry to the people I disappeared on when I quit playing suddenly. Stuff happened in real life, and then I figured it was time for Eph to finally give up the ghost. Much love though.
This was certainly interesting to read. The timelines are kind of cosmic and hilarious in how they line up.
In all honesty, that we wound up talking about it was kind of by sheer coincidence. The whole idea of making it an even playing field for all the Devotionists, a sort of mixture of the Harbingers and a civil service organization for the outside world - or moving towards that - was inspired by some things Daeir said out of frustration after Zenui's Trial of Worth. That you and I happened upon the same conclusion is pretty eerie, but at the same time makes sense if you can be the kind of person who can suspend the OOC knowledge that it eventually probably wouldn't end well.
Prior to being Deacon, I had been Daeir's aide for a few weeks and been working with Cyrene. When he got promoted, I kind of just stepped in with no idea wtf I was doing. So I basically tried to emulate what I saw Daeir do, albeit in a very different and far more political manner. The amount of progress that seemed to be made was astonishing on the Cyrenian end, but I did a mostly horrible job of doing any PR on the Targossian side of things.
Unfortunately, Aodfionn (and myself, despite that always-lingering thought that it was bound to end eventually) put a bit too much faith in how much progress had been made, and Cyrene decided to summarily neuter the Diaspora. We were getting almost to the point where the Diasporans would themselves have been able to preach (at least, Jeslyn and Drual, who were the Cyrenians on the Council), but we only had ten years or so from start to finish of the process, and the newest changes to help get Cyrene more invested/involved only went in a few weeks ago.
Fortunately, this all came at a time where I was just running out of energy and ideas on how to keep the Diaspora moving in a fresh direction and also being appointed HL/Lumarch. So the timing is actually pretty awesome - now, I have time to pester @Aurora with weird ideas for the house/city. We had a good run, but hopefully the Cyrenians who dipped and the ones who stayed Devotionists are all stoked for their new roles.