So I leave for a weekend concert series, and I can't be a priest in Cyrene anymore?

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  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the Storm
    Kakotas said:
    Honestly I could see Honor becoming a core tenet. Definitely if Runewarden is decided as the main factional class. This would allow some really interesting RP to develop as well...

    Sarapis said:
    Just to save you guys the time, there is not a chance that we'd take an existing class and make it factional, and it's also pretty unlikely, though not impossible, that we'd introduce new factional classes. Certainly not in the forseeable future in any case.



    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • edited April 2015
    Daeir said:
    Still boggles my mind that in a game centered around conflict, the most populous city is one that is founded on not having any external conflict whatsoever.

    Really backwards from a game design concept, if I'm honest. Then again, Achaea has never exactly been a paragon of good design choices - though that has been getting better lately. Probably because of Makarios.
    Well, those who don't mind or actively seek conflict has 4 (maybe 5 soon?) cities to choose from. While those who'd rather not be at conflict with anyone have 1 (maybe 2?) cities to choose from. So I'm not surprised that Cyrene has so many players.
    image
  • edited April 2015
    Klendathu said:
    Did you stop to consider that perhaps one of the reasons it is the most populous city is because it has little or no external conflict? Not everyone wants to LolPK constantly, some people want other things from the game.

    If you don't like the game design, rather than making back-handed and snide digs at the people who have worked on it for nearly two decades (mostly without being paid), don't play it.
    He's not really wrong though, that's still evident of a game design fault in that conflict is centered around PK and there are fewer avenues of which to make any meaningful impact outside of that, which drives people not interested in PK (Seemingly the majority) into cities that don't engage in conflict. The dominant PK cities, are typically, the dominant cities, because PK is the quickest and most obvious way of asserting dominance. The only person I can think of that hasn't succumbed to this status quo is Rho, but he had some pretty impressive PK force backing him anyway
  • Since I may or may not have been the one who sparked off the "factionalize" Runewardens... you guys totally took my comment back on page 5 wrong.

    Also pointed out is that it'll never happen, but my joking suggestion was to factionalize -totems- not Runewardens. Only the implanting of totems rather than the class :P Sheesh, you guys.

    Carry on.
    image
    When Canada rules the world,
    things will be... nii~ice.
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the Storm
    Daeir said:
    Klendathu said:
    Did you stop to consider that perhaps one of the reasons it is the most populous city is because it has little or no external conflict? Not everyone wants to LolPK constantly, some people want other things from the game.

    If you don't like the game design, rather than making back-handed and snide digs at the people who have worked on it for nearly two decades (mostly without being paid), don't play it.
    Conflict is not solely lolpk, but the fact that you think so speaks volumes.

    Instead of opting for the easy route and just taking my interest elsewhere, I have not - and I have tried my utmost to help change things for the better where I can. Pointing out issues in game design is not snidely denigrating the work that all the volunteers over the ages have put in - it is the responsibility and duty of any player who earnestly and sincerely wants the game to thrive, not just survive.

    @Greys: The fact that in a game centered around conflict (supposedly), a considerable portion of the players opt to go to a faction especially catered to the absence of this external conflict that drives the game is highly indicative of issues regarding aforementioned conflict - far beyond just dealing with combat oriented stuff. I'm talking about conflict as a general term - the sociopolitical conflict that is meant to drive city relations and competition between the city states is meant to be a big part of this game. If player population is leaning towards areas where this conflict is not a big part of a player's life, then there is evidently issues with how that conflict is being initiated at a design level.

    I'm not sitting here and taking shots at people that don't play the game the same way that I do. Thank you for taking the ad hominem forum points approach and jumping straight to personal arguments and blase generalizations, though!
    I'm fully aware of the myriad forms of conflict, rest assured. I used LolPK as an extreme and obvious form of external conflict. There are plenty of intra-city conflicts within Ashtan, and I assume within Cyrene, which your character, as a citizen of Targossas, may be unaware. The game isn't designed around just you, it's designed to be balanced for the very vast majority. I forget who it was who said it, but you can't please all of the people all of the time. As for pointing out what you perceive to be bad game design, there are more pleasant ways of doing it than stating that Achaea has never been a paragon of good game design, and that it's only improved due to one individual, which I dispute.

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
  • Contemplative: Might it not be possible that Neutrality as a concept can, ironically, be a source of conflict? 

  • Side note: perhaps Achaea is not actually a game of conflict, but a sandbox with various forms of conflict as well as various other attractions. If the game revolved solely around conflict, there'd be little need for a poetry board.
  • Cyrene thrives on community. Pretty sure that's it. Every so often a 'newbie' shows up trying to stir drama and the city gets bloodthirsty for that person. Surprisingly they are also the least forgiving of newbies, at least out of four cities. (Have no knowledge of Eleusis or Targossas.) But I think it's probably that they are wary of what peace may be disturbed, and if you stick it out and don't start trying to stir up conflict, then it gets better.
  • edited April 2015
    Daklore said:
    Since I may or may not have been the one who sparked off the "factionalize" Runewardens... you guys totally took my comment back on page 5 wrong.

    Also pointed out is that it'll never happen, but my joking suggestion was to factionalize -totems- not Runewardens. Only the implanting of totems rather than the class :P Sheesh, you guys.

    Carry on.


    Silas and a couple others sort of took that and said "yeah, it's been joked about, but I'd be all for it" (on the totems in particular, although I do think we failed to actually separate it from Runies like you specified)...  anyway. 


    The only reason a lot of people have parked our characters in Cyrene, is because you can easily get in over your head in PK in Achaea, which means getting trapped in an endless loop of trying to bash back the experience we are absolutely going to lose if we do get involved because we're not actually good at it...  Or even if we are kind of good at it but in a small faction, or kind of good but not quite good enough, and so on.  Post dead horse gifs all you want, but that is exactly why I and others like me PK all the time in other games (badly, but have lots of fun), but never, ever in this one.  Also, Cyrene is just a nice place to live and it's pretty and it reliably has a lot of nice people around, but that's beside the point (but it is, and there is good shopping). 

  • Nim said:
    Side note: perhaps Achaea is not actually a game of conflict, but a sandbox with various forms of conflict as well as various other attractions. If the game revolved solely around conflict, there'd be little need for a poetry board.
    I don't know about using poetry as an example! I mean, have you seen how mercurial artists can be?
  • You're talking to someone who responded to Ashtani antagonism with a poem on Public. As a war minister.

    But there'd be no need for a poetry board because it would exist solely to highlight conflict.

    Instead, we'd have a slamming board, which would work like Public and Poetry fused, but you'd need to earn points (by people "Like"ing your posts or just very slowly over time) to post.

  • Skye said:
    I wanted a picture of a kitten in a barrel but mostly all I found was kittens in buckets. 


    image
  • edited April 2015
    That kitten makes me think of @Santar

  • Bronislav said:
    Jules said:

    And then, Cyrene not only gets attacked regularly, but we also get lectured ad nauseam about how we "have totems, but still can't win"

    And then, Cyrene not only gets attacked regularly, but we also get lectured

    Cyrene not only gets attacked regularly

    Cyrene gets attacked regularly


    Have you seen our Army lately? I'll grant you, our stance toward raiding has largely been, "Screw off, go away, we aren't interested". Cyrene, as a city, has zero interest in stomping over to another city and caving their faces in. But the only difference between Cyrene and the Zerg is that we lack the experience and the drive to deliberately screw with other cities - and the former is very easily remedied:

    Spawn more overlords.
    This 100%. Cyrene has a lot of non-coms (and a few like me who try but suck/need time to learn) but we still kick ass when we're attacked. It would be a mistake to confuse isolationism with weakness.
  • I don't know about that. When we got raided when I played we usually broke even at best, and there's a reason Cyrene was where one of the first level 2 tanks was detonated (unless I'm misremembering that)
  • That looks kinda fun to fight. I wish I could justify a raid.

     i'm a rebel

  • Ayami said:
    I don't know about that. When we got raided when I played we usually broke even at best, and there's a reason Cyrene was where one of the first level 2 tanks was detonated (unless I'm misremembering that)
    Right, we're informally known as a breaking in training ground for newer raiding parties, as I understand it.  When we have a few leaders around who can stay alive and keep us all hitting the same target, our numbers and weirdly high number of artifacts can definitely prevail though.  At the same time, it's important for us to maintain a sense of balance and realism when it comes to this sort of thing, otherwise we'd just get taken advantage of and slaughtered for the hell of it (and all of that glorious text pee, because lots of bashers in Cyrene), frankly.  I think our core leadership is fairly aware of that, too. 
  • Realistically, no city really forces you to defend (especially as a newbie) or is going to make a big deal out of pvp incompetence/force you to learn quickly. I'm completely useless for city defence in Mhaldor and no one's even commented on it, and Mhaldor's definitely the city people think of when they say 'mandatory defence' and 'forced pvp.' People are too worried about a fantasy version of the militant cities to actually try them out, which is why neutral factions have such huge numbers, I suspect.
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