XP Loss/Enemy Territory

Herenicus

They're repeating it for their benefit, not yours. It's a prayer to banish the niggling sense of responsibility for the gaming experience of our beloved skrubs.

Rangor

Guys, keep in mind that Ashtan has had the most non-existing ideology forever (lol freedom) and remained on the top of the foodchain through all that time because of the ingenuity and competitiveness of their players. 

Darkness and the Moon can make for a pretty cool RP/play environment. Darkenwood and your location puts you at direct odds with the Nature faction. Targossas hates twilight. Andwho doesn't fap a little when the Dark Lord or Lady Moon visits them.

Note that you cannot build a city/culture/environment by yourself. Need to build a core group of likeminded people around you.

Jules

Hmm, I think I committed a word crime ITT.  Maybe no one will notice. 

Herenicus

Not a jot falls from its appointed place absent my notice, Jules. Even the apostrophes of the air and commas of the ground whisper of your misdeeds.

Jovolo

@Jacen they were new characters, not our mains. Wanted to see what it would be like starting from the ground up as if we were real newbies. Wasn't the best experience, but glad to hear things are turning around. Interested to try again some day.

Bluef

Jacen said:

Stuff

I tend to agree with you. Once upon a time, when I was Hashani, long, long ago when we had to walk up the Road to Eternity (both ways) Hashan didn't have a Twilight. He was dormant and a lot of the ways "Darkness" connected to the city were bound in the subterfuge of serpents. More and more, they became tied to Thoth though, as Ourania as their patron never really fit after her first (or second?) iteration. That fits better in some ways because of the original Quisalis (snakelike beings loyal to Thoth). These days, if anyone asked me I'd say Hashan was the alchemic capital (sorry, Ryldagh) of Sapience. That class was born of Twilight's plottings via Nurazar and the academy they started up for the alchemists in the city is really a pretty cool thing. 

If you ask me though (and you didn't so I'm just inserting my opinion here), what Hashan needs is people who "don't play well with others" (referencing your post to Jovolo). People who are loyal within but treacherous to those outside the city. It's a false argument to suggest that controversial PKers would slow down unity and like-mindedness. That's simply not the case. Look at Antidas being beloved over there in Targossas. Look at Florentino doing his all in Mhaldor. This is a prime example of what I meant when I told you earlier to think outside the box. Don't let the things you see as negatives about your city keep you from building something amazing in the future that people don't expect you to.

Herenicus

@Bluef, in light of your crimes, your participation in this MFB-sponsored thread is suspended for one (1) day. Please use this time to reflect on the importance of treating our common areas with respect moving forward. Thread contributors are urged to observe this one (1) day suspension and contact their local MFB office with any questions or concerns.

Jovolo

You never did respond to me either, Herenicus. ;_;

Bluef

Herenicus said:

@Bluef, in light of your crimes, your participation in this MFB-sponsored thread is suspended for one (1) day. Please use this time to reflect on the importance of treating our common areas with respect moving forward. Thread contributors are urged to observe this one (1) day suspension and contact their local MFB office with any questions or concerns.

Perhaps you'll reconsider...Unless you'd like me to send in my flying monkeys and get this thread nuked too.



Just kidding. I solemnly swear that I am up to no good...oh, wait, wrong pledge. I hereby swear subservience to the Mhaldorian Forum Brigade and vow to refrain from any future use of gifs, meme, and the like, so help me Sartan.

Herenicus

1 fucking day. We'll be seeing you.

Silas

Nemutaur said:

Here's the catch though, some self righteous whowever will feel the need to raid Hashan because of a gank. They will tell you or whoever that it is thanks to the roaming gank crew and if they want it to stop they need to curb in the crew. Don't, do not interfere with that core group and just let them do their thing.

If you show them support by telling them that it was demanded and you told the raider to go f- him/herself they will feel appreciated. They will want to stick around and get better so that the raid doesn't happen again, or if it does they can do more/better.

Cannot stress this enough. Cities have to back their PKers, and be willing to turn the occasional blind eye to some of their more unsavoury deeds. Where possible, you should be the roleplaying front for your city, to distract from what your PKers are doing and to make everything look good to the outside world. It's what Wulfen was best at when he played PR for Rukimoro, Dyzanru, Malifuus, Rameus, et al way back when, and is what has kept Ashtan going in terms of attraction and retention of PKers throughout.

The job of the city leadership is to enable its active playerbase in whatever they're doing to move the city forward in the desired direction. Give them whatever support you can to keep them doing what they're doing, because the job they're doing is horrendously thankless. They're going to get shit on non-stop if they're successful - on forums, from retaliatory gank squads, probably even from other Hashani who don't want to deal with the retaliation. It's up to the city leadership to defend them from that.

Herenicus

The foregoing does not exempt our beloved Lords of the Flies from killing Piggy.

Jarrod

People trying to offer constructive feedback for ways Hashan, and cities in general, can improve should probably move somewhere else.

Best to let Herenicus pretend to be courteous/post nonsense since this thread has gone downhill from a pretty low starting point.

Herenicus

We have appreciated your stay, too, @Jarrod, and will miss your presence, even if our Hashani contributors haven't found the arguably self-serving repetition of "git gud" very helpful. I encourage you to pay attention to @Rangor's efforts next door, if you still have an interest in improving participation and mutual fun. Thank you.

Jarrod

The difference between the advice being given and your summary of the advice is why you're always going to be a PK whiner, instead of a PK solution.

Lorielan

Ahem.

Finding some manners would be advisable at this stage.

Herenicus

Thank you for your visit, @Jarrod.

Herenicus

Silas said:

Nemutaur said:

Here's the catch though, some self righteous whowever will feel the need to raid Hashan because of a gank. They will tell you or whoever that it is thanks to the roaming gank crew and if they want it to stop they need to curb in the crew. Don't, do not interfere with that core group and just let them do their thing.

If you show them support by telling them that it was demanded and you told the raider to go f- him/herself they will feel appreciated. They will want to stick around and get better so that the raid doesn't happen again, or if it does they can do more/better.

Cannot stress this enough. Cities have to back their PKers, and be willing to turn the occasional blind eye to some of their more unsavoury deeds. Where possible, you should be the roleplaying front for your city, to distract from what your PKers are doing and to make everything look good to the outside world. It's what Wulfen was best at when he played PR for Rukimoro, Dyzanru, Malifuus, Rameus, et al way back when, and is what has kept Ashtan going in terms of attraction and retention of PKers throughout.

The job of the city leadership is to enable its active playerbase in whatever they're doing to move the city forward in the desired direction. Give them whatever support you can to keep them doing what they're doing, because the job they're doing is horrendously thankless. They're going to get shit on non-stop if they're successful - on forums, from retaliatory gank squads, probably even from other Hashani who don't want to deal with the retaliation. It's up to the city leadership to defend them from that.

To be fair, Wulfen punished coms and nomcoms alike, which I imagine is what helped earn him a reputation for being even-handed and trustworthy. I never found him to be very negotiable in matters of conduct, even when someone threatened to stomp off. Giving in to tantrums only invites repetition, regardless of who throws it.

Silas

There's a difference between giving in to tantrums and backing your PKers.

Trey

Jarrod said:

The difference between the advice being given and your summary of the advice is why you're always going to be a PK whiner, instead of a PK solution.

 

Aalm

Jarrod said:

@Jarrod : Define irony: using an image of Jean-luc Picard to support a James T. Kirk argument.

Picard was the one usually preferring diplomacy over blowing shit up. Kirk was the one that preferred blowing shit up over most other activities, including breathing.

Herenicus

Enough; lets close this thread. Thanks to all for a lively, only occasionally-waspish conversation.

Edit: @Trey while I find it hard to believe that Balian was a siege engineer prior to taking up local blacksmithing at the beginning of the film, it was still a great movie.  

Rangor

worthwhile pvp'ers don't throw tantrums. The rage a little about imbalances, then switch to a class that is equally abusable.

Herenicus

...just one last opportunity for @Silas or @Dracen to acknowledge the design argument they've studiously avoided for days.

Let's be fair, no one is seriously arguing that improving as individuals and supporting your citizens isn't necessary. But is this really sufficient, if our goal is a tight race around the track? 

Can't we agree that a close game is good policy and getting there is going to take more than a handful of stout hearts driving the 6 car?

Dracen

If I were fucking avoiding said argument, I'd not offer the solutions I did.

There's your rise, bub. Piss off, now. 

Herenicus

Dracen said:

Long and short of this -entire- thread. Pull yourself up by your damn bootstraps, and soldier on, or gtfo the way for others who -want- and -will- make the necessary changes.

Th in that city who will learn. Believe me.

I am sorry if I missed it?

edit: I would ask the admins to let his remark slide, or just edit as necessary. He is entitled to some of the frustration we all feel.

Dracen

Yes, let's look at one singular statement, rather than actually take a look at the whole of the statement/argument. You're unbelievably smug and condescending for what reason? That doesn't even matter at the moment, nor does my lost respect for you. What matters, is that you, and a lot of other players feel overly entitled to this completely stupid easymode method of combat. I really do not understand it. You -earn- your place on the world stage. You -earn- your skill as a fighter. The system does not hold your damned hand. If it does, you're playing a children's game. Sarapis designed this game for the PK. It was meant to be intricate, it was meant to be hard to be number 1. Guess what. He succeeded. It ain't easy. There's a lot of intricacies, a lot of crap you gotta learn for the 1v1, and for group combat. I (along with others) have put multiple solutions to the issues that people have, but they don't want to hear it. It's like playing CS:GO, against gold novas, and then whining because you don't have the skill for LEM or Global Elite. It's -ridiculous- to whine about it, and if you need something to hold your hand (in this example, aimbot, triggerbot, wallhack, etc) you really shouldn't be crying that you're not where you want to be because you're not putting in the -work- to earn it, and actually represent yourself well.

Herenicus

The Achaean forums are an academy of smugness, even gods on Mt. Forumban are known to occasionally dip a toe into those dark waters. But as I seem to have run afoul of your sensitivities, allow me to again apologize for what must have been an uncomfortable experience.

I am not certain what the rest of your post was directed towards, as my solutions did not deal with the intricities of PK so much as the penalties. Nobody would become better at PK because they gained or lost more XP doing it, but they might practice more often and with better patience. And I hope your patience recovers, if not in this thread then another.

Nim

how can someone be "entitled" with regards to a game? I really don't understand this.

Dracen

And there's the issue we have it finally. To suggest penalties, you have to know the systems. That's the short version of the answer, and I don't have a thesaurus around near me to rape properly and give you a long-winded, idiotic, proper response to match up with yours.


If there's one thing I wish Achaea would pull from stuff like CS:GO and the like, if you log out during a raid (whether you're offense or not), you get denied to relog for a while or something. Or disfavours from Makarios or some crap. It'd offer the -same- level of enjoyment, and actually make people participate (Unless you're that dickbag that stays in T spawn afk because 'I don't want ban. I no want. Me no want.') But. the punishments you offered in the OP were a tad ridiculous, and you've been blowing off anyone with half a response. Why am I even wasting my time with this? I don't know. I'm tired, hungry, need nicotine, and I figure I can waste some time. Y'know, like the Alkaline Trio song.