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Dual Blunt Discussion

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  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Or maybe it is not bugged, but rather head breaking with morningstar is bugged. By the looks of this, the head break went straight to level 2.

    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/542038d1

  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,871 Achaean staff
    Fairly sure you must've had damaged head already. No reason something like that would happen that I can think of. Do another test and see if it happens again?
    Arador
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ah, found the issue. SVO does not recognise the assault message and breaking head with assault gives stuttering, not stupidity, so I did not notice it. Thanks! 

    AedinExelethril
  • AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2015
    Addama said:
    Targets with ~4200 health break limbs in six morningstar hits, so if you consider 5 for each leg and 5 to prep head, that's 15 hits, so your prep work is about 20 seconds.  That's the fastest prep by far for any of the specs.

    Was this with lvl3 morningstars, or stock morningstars?

    Cause if they were stock, kinda of sad that I'm using level3 flails and I'm two hits or one combo under what it takes for you to break a limb and their at what 2.7s rebalance?. Then its the same for if they was level 3 morningstars compared to a level3 flail with the almost double the damage and nearly a second faster.

    However it takes five hits with just about anyone above 5k health with level3 flails.
  • AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2015
    Double post..
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Aedin said:
    Addama said:
    Targets with ~4200 health break limbs in six morningstar hits, so if you consider 5 for each leg and 5 to prep head, that's 15 hits, so your prep work is about 20 seconds.  That's the fastest prep by far for any of the specs.

    Was this with lvl3 morningstars, or stock morningstars?

    Cause if they were stock, kinda of sad that I'm using level3 flails and I'm two hits or one combo under what it takes for you to break a limb and their at what 2.7s rebalance?. Then its the same for if they was level 3 morningstars compared to a level3 flail with the almost double the damage and nearly a second faster.

    However it takes five hits with just about anyone above 5k health with level3 flails.
    Mine are forged Runeblades (I prefer the term "Runeblasters"), not sure if yours are.

    Ours might have similar limb damage, but probably dissimilar balance since Runes do nothing for that.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Aedin said:
    Addama said:
    Targets with ~4200 health break limbs in six morningstar hits, so if you consider 5 for each leg and 5 to prep head, that's 15 hits, so your prep work is about 20 seconds.  That's the fastest prep by far for any of the specs.

    Was this with lvl3 morningstars, or stock morningstars?

    Cause if they were stock, kinda of sad that I'm using level3 flails and I'm two hits or one combo under what it takes for you to break a limb and their at what 2.7s rebalance?. Then its the same for if they was level 3 morningstars compared to a level3 flail with the almost double the damage and nearly a second faster.

    However it takes five hits with just about anyone above 5k health with level3 flails.
    The forged should be at 2.5 and the level 3's should be at 2.2 seconds. If math holds up which is possible it's not. I don't have the exact formulas just eye balling and what I've experienced. 
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Only being able to break a limb in 2 hits compared to 3. #bluntproblems

    Hey guys! I've been wailing on this guy's leg for half a minute! I almost have it prepped! #snb4life

    (I'm joking of course, I get your point) 

    AedinKrux
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I'd say Dual Blunt is in a far better place than Two Handed, but it's still fairly pointless to fight anybody who can Evade/Backflip out the second you touch their left arm.  Fighting a BM is super pointless.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • KelloniusKellonius Cape Girardeau, MissouriMember Posts: 303 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Currently gripe with dual wield:
    Lack of razeslash type ability, particularly for hunting. Dual blunt doesn't gain momentum while hunting, so relying on fracture to remove shields during hunting is slower than when fighting an adventurer. I think unmodified fracture is a 1.5 seconds, so its not too bad, but I would definitely prefer something akin to carve or razeslash. Right now dual blunt is the only spec that cant raze and attack in the same combo!
    image
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kellonius said:
    Currently gripe with dual wield:
    Lack of razeslash type ability, particularly for hunting. Dual blunt doesn't gain momentum while hunting, so relying on fracture to remove shields during hunting is slower than when fighting an adventurer. I think unmodified fracture is a 1.5 seconds, so its not too bad, but I would definitely prefer something akin to carve or razeslash. Right now dual blunt is the only spec that cant raze and attack in the same combo!
    Nor can monks, or quite a few other classes. Hammer tattoo :P

    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    WessuxExelethrilKenway
  • KelloniusKellonius Cape Girardeau, MissouriMember Posts: 303 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Klendathu said:
    Kellonius said:
    Currently gripe with dual wield:
    Lack of razeslash type ability, particularly for hunting. Dual blunt doesn't gain momentum while hunting, so relying on fracture to remove shields during hunting is slower than when fighting an adventurer. I think unmodified fracture is a 1.5 seconds, so its not too bad, but I would definitely prefer something akin to carve or razeslash. Right now dual blunt is the only spec that cant raze and attack in the same combo!
    Nor can monks, or quite a few other classes. Hammer tattoo :P
    Yea, its not a huge deal when it comes to hunting. That aside, that's like comparing apples to oranges in terms of combat. I'm talking about putting the knight specializations on an even keel with one another in terms of what they can do(when it comes to rebounding, specifically). In fact, @Makarios‌ said in another thread somewhere that dual blunt is supposed to be able to kill with pure damage alone, and not being able to do something akin to RSL seems to go against that logic because we can't keep the damage going.

    And yes, I know we can always expend torso, but there might be some instances where saving the momentum is more important, or perhaps there is no momentum to use, and so on.
    image
  • TarkanianTarkanian Member Posts: 254 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Kellonius said:
    Klendathu said:
    Kellonius said:
    Meep
    Meep
    ...

    In fact, @Makarios‌ said in another thread somewhere that dual blunt is supposed to be able to kill with pure damage alone...
    @Makarios: where is this thread? I haven't had much time to play and try out all the fancy shmanzy new changes to knight, so instead, I've just been reading up on everything about the specs. Appreciate if you could point me in the right direction. Thanks!
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    It can kill people with raw damage, given you have enough Strength and they have few enough hitpoints.  That goes for any Knight, of course.  Two Handed is far better equipped to kill with raw damage, though.

    The lack of hindering options makes this unlikely, though.  You can keep them from parrying/shielding/rebounding, but not from running or hindering you.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's a prep class with damage bonuses when hitting already damaged (restoration broken) limbs of a prone opponent and an instant kill that forces inefficient curing of legs to survive.

    You're not supposed to just stand there and try doublewhirling them to death.
    MakariosAradorTrey
  • KruxKrux Member Posts: 39 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Antonius said:
    It's a prep class with damage bonuses when hitting already damaged (restoration broken) limbs of a prone opponent and an instant kill that forces inefficient curing of legs to survive.

    You're not supposed to just stand there and try doublewhirling them to death.
    Can this be inscribed on Lv3 Flails? Cause that totally should be standard if so.

    If you gave Dual Blunt a Raze Slash... there would be like no way to slow them down at all. They already have two parry bypasses (Left Arm and Expend/Break Leg). They break your limbs in like 4 hits with flails, they instantly kill you and serverside curing apparently doesn't want you to stand back up either. (This is a joke I'm sure its getting fixed.) >:)
    Rise, and rise again, until lambs become lions.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I kind of feel sorry for people who bought level three flails without realising level three morningstars were (an/the superior?) option. Seems like you should be doing most of your prep work/momentum building/expending with morningstars because it's that much faster, only switching to flails for assault (which doesn't appear to be affected by weapon speed, but is by weapon damage, based on my testing) or hitting a prone opponent's damaged limbs (even in this case, morningstars might work out better).
    Exelethril
  • AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2015
    Well in all that's fair I suppose is that we didn't really get much of an option at use anything else sadly during testing we didn't get to have arti morning  stars  and then they get released a few days into being released   as well... While I do and dont regret my level three fails for that very reason it it was sadly my mistake..


    While sure I would love to trade them in for morning stars now due to way thrm having a vastly faster  prep time and almost near damage as it would seem. After al stock morning stars were done nearly 700 damage every 2.4 second compared to my 1000 damage every 3 seconds. So I can only picture what level three   morning stars   are like in comparison ..

    Overall I'm in a sad place with my level three flails with how vastly under powered it really is compared to Morningstar s
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Aedin: If you bought them before morningstars were announced it might be worth contacting [email protected] and seeing if you'd be allowed to switch.
  • AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Ya thanks for the idea @Antonius‌ sending them an email right now hope for the best  
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Momentum gain during hunting would be awesome for feeling like the unstoppable force that you are. "Is that a shield?! Get that crap or if my face! I'm a wrecking ball."

  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent


    Friztic
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,128 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Can dual blunt only split break when exerting or whatever?
    image
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    No can hit one limb with both blows and expend or hit two different limbs and expend on either. 

    You just can not expend on both limbs. 

    Addama
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    One thing I didn't bother to test is if you could DOUBLEWHIRL LEFT ARM EXPEND LEFT LEG to hit a parried left leg, or if the Expend effect would only apply like a fraction of a second later.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,128 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I guess I don't know what expend is. I assumed the ability to double break required consumption of limited resource. Otherwise dbreak, dbreak, vivisect?
    image
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2015
    Well yes and no. Morning stars are 2.5 second balance (2.2 with lvl 3) so you can not just doublebreak leg, doublebreak arms, vivisect. You will be a second too slow.

    That being said, dual blunt is currently broken with morningstars. You can get 3 hits into 8 seconds which is a problem.

    0 Break both legs, they apply to legs

    2.5 Break head

    4 Leg back to lvl 1, apply head

    5 assault head, head now lvl 3

    7.5 Pulp

    8. Head would have been cured back to lvl 2

    No way to really beat it apart just not applying to legs at all and waiting for the head break but that allows them to keep you on the ground and damage you out pretty easily without being able to get up (or fake applying, and then curing head first when they break it, but once again, if they know you do that they can just wail on you and you won't get up)

    Infernals can make this even worse in that the fake apply won't even save you because well, you are not curing legs so you can see why Infernal would have a field day with that if they have your arms set up too. (Strat is slightly different but same result and absolutely no escape whichever way)

    I am not sure what could fix this apart from just straight nerfing morningstars or infernals, but doing so could take it from "Impossible to escape" to "Impossible to pull off" which would suck. All I can think of is to lengthen Assault balance a bit. 


  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Mizik said:
    I guess I don't know what expend is. I assumed the ability to double break required consumption of limited resource. Otherwise dbreak, dbreak, vivisect?
    Because you could do the same thing with only three preps (legs and head) and land a Pulp instead, which is #swagoverload.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,128 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Oh. So unstoppable Vivisect is too weak.

    #goingInfernal #RIPAshtan
    image
    TreyXinna
  • AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2015
    First off, I'd like to state, where are you pulling out a level two head break right off the start of the break you're off by one. Secondly, by time you pulp'd they're dead anyways no use for anything else after that..

    Right now I'd have to say dual blunt is in a pretty nice niche right now, while yes we can break limbs with ease, but for that we lack any form of hindrance outside of breaking limbs. We traded sheer damage and limbs for being able to hinder effective is how I see it.
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