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Dual Blunt Discussion

AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
Discuss your thoughts on Dual Blunt.

First impressions: Christ, flails do a lot of damage. 

Can't empower flails yet, so have no idea how that's going to mesh with my offense.

Can't expend on two blows in the same combo, which somewhat severely limits its use.

You now get a notification when you've broken a limb, which is a ~big deal~.

PULP: An insta-kill you can do just with a prone opponent with a mangled head.  If Assault balance isn't too bad, that means you can break two legs/expend for prone -> assault head -> pulp.

Haven't tested assault damage yet.
~Kresslack's obsession~
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Comments

  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Message #146 Sent by Meletus

    1/01/2:26 Greetings! In regard to issue 71263, runeblades are only meant for dual-wielded blades! We'll fix it up so it's more clear!

    Blast.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Wait... does this mean I can't runeblade if I'm doing "sword and board"?  I would not like that.  
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,303 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2015
    Uhhh....I feel like if you're a Runewarden, you should be able to runeblade any sword. Seems kinda cruddy to have a bastard sword and not be able to runeblade it.

    Edit: Nvm, apparently edged swords of any kind can be empowered, just not blunt weapons.


    Jules
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    It really would!  It's the dual-wielded verbiage in that response that has me worried.  
  • DjiDji Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Addama said:
    Discuss your thoughts on Dual Blunt.

    First impressions: Christ, flails do a lot of damage. 

    Can't empower flails yet, so have no idea how that's going to mesh with my offense.

    Can't expend on two blows in the same combo, which somewhat severely limits its use.

    You now get a notification when you've broken a limb, which is a ~big deal~.

    PULP: An insta-kill you can do just with a prone opponent with a mangled head.  If Assault balance isn't too bad, that means you can break two legs/expend for prone -> assault head -> pulp.

    Haven't tested assault damage yet.
    According to my bug report, flails will not be able to be empowered. Also, I'm not getting that notification thing myself. How have you managed that?
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Was there gonna be a 2h blunt at some point?
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Xith: Two handed already has a blunt weapon: warhammer.
    Xith
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Back to testing: Morningstars appear to have around 2 second balance, Flails 3 seconds.  Accordingly, an untargeted Morningstar doublewhirl does around 900 damage and Flails do about 1350, more or less what you'd expect.  This is with 15 Strength, by the way.

    With Flails, Assault does around 2200 damage at 15 Strength.  You can store up to 8 momentum, so technically you can Assault, doublewhirl, Assault for something ridiculous like 5.7k damage in 10 seconds.  But this isn't practical with Flails unless you're artied I guess, so Morningstars are more realistic.

    Just leaning on DOUBLEWHIRL TARGET LEFT ARM EXPEND (other limb) you can pretty much perma-mitigate parry if you're using Morningstars.  I couldn't see how long the parry mitigation was for because I was just spamming the mentioned command, but it was long enough that I could get in another expend before parry got back up. 

    The stun is only for about a second, so nothing mind-blowing there.

    Like Makarios said, Assault only increases head damage by one level and you need two for a Pulp, BUT from my limited testing people aren't curing head trauma from Assault yet.  If they do (and they prio head damage) Doublewhirl does way more damage, and this isn't with torso trauma testing.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'm getting a consistent 2.5 seconds on doublewhirl using forged morningstars, and about 3.4 with flails. What are you using to get 2/3 seconds?
  • MakariosMakarios Administrator Posts: 1,871 Achaean staff
    Antonius's numbers are pretty accurate. Level 3 morningstars intentionally fall just above 2 seconds to prevent inescapable vivisects.
    AedinExelethrilAradorDochitha
  • AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Roughly how.many hits with each does it take to break on the test server it took 4 with fails never really played with morning stars to much though

  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Morningstars felt like they took about twice as many hits to break, but they're considerably faster. I think it was two doublewhirls with forged flails on Dji (about 4k health, I think). Then four doublewhirls with morningstars, but I never asked which hit was actually breaking - it's probably 4 and 7 for flails/morningstars on him, I imagine.
    AedinAyoxele
  • AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sounds about right it was  4 on just about everyone I tested it on up to around 7k health sucks I won't be home until nearly 11am est to test it all myself. If everything is the same in theory you'll easily be able to get it all off with the finisher pretty quickly assuming they don't just parry head thebthe whole time but them again with expend well that helps haha. 


    This is the only spec I cared about really lol
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Parry isn't going to be an issue for dual blunt. It's got a hard parry bypass in Expend. Once you have that it should be pretty easy to keep it going if you're maintaining offense; the bypass seemed to last about 15 seconds as far as I could tell.
  • AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Not to bad. Sounds like I'm gonna love it even more now!
  • KelloniusKellonius Cape Girardeau, MissouriMember Posts: 303 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Really love the idea of dual blunt, but it doesn't seem like a full class yet. Not being able to use afflictions and doing just straight limb damage just feels like a monk with less options. I mean, monks cant exactly hinder either, but at least they have things like jump kick, whirlwind kick, can deliver paralysis via roundhouse and so on.
    image
    AddamaDjiAedin
  • DjiDji Member Posts: 84 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Kellonius said:
    Really love the idea of dual blunt, but it doesn't seem like a full class yet. Not being able to use afflictions and doing just straight limb damage just feels like a monk with less options. I mean, monks cant exactly hinder either, but at least they have things like jump kick, whirlwind kick, can deliver paralysis via roundhouse and so on.
    This is what ultimately pushed me to sword and board. Dual blunt just felt like it needed a few more options.
    Addama
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    What pushed me away from it was the weird added/subtracted damage from prone/expend.  Tracking limb damage will be horrendous.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • KelloniusKellonius Cape Girardeau, MissouriMember Posts: 303 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Addama said:
    What pushed me away from it was the weird added/subtracted damage from prone/expend.  Tracking limb damage will be horrendous.
    That part doesn't bother me so much. I'm not going to expend someone's legs until I'm ready to start the breaking sequence, and if I do, they'll probably be back on their feet before I can doublewhirl again. The part that bothers me is the lack of flavor and options.
    image
  • AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Funny, never really had an issue with limb tracking as of yet, using level three flails it takes roughly 12s to prep both legs, so in 30s able to get all limbs needed for pulp setup, with a single expend on left arm to drop a parry should they have it up and not parrying left arm. Quite fun pulping people up

    Standing over the prone form of <Person>, you allow yourself a brief moment of exultation before whipping your weapons down in a single, terrible blow, pulping his skull and proving your supremecy.
    Tzond
  • KenwayKenway San FranciscoMember Posts: 1,130 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Man they -REALLY- liked the word supremecy for these changes.

    - Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
    "Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    it's 'supremacy' by the way. Only 1 e. Hope that wasn't copy/pasted from the game as 'supremecy'. Much disappoint if so.

  • AedinAedin Member Posts: 306 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Aye it was a copy and paste from the game...
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    How does Pulp work?
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    If they are prone with a mangled head and you have balance, they die. Easy to pull off. 

  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    So since runic empowerment was added, Dual Blunt has become a more realistic option for Runewardens.

    Targets with ~4200 health break limbs in six morningstar hits, so if you consider 5 for each leg and 5 to prep head, that's 15 hits, so your prep work is about 20 seconds.  That's the fastest prep by far for any of the specs.

    Basic idea:

    Prep both legs and head.  Expend on left arm liberally, expend on torso only if you don't have anything better to do with momentum. 

    Once that's done, work up to 8 momentum, expend left arm to drop parry, doublewhirl both legs and expend to prone, doublewhirl head, you'll have 6 momentum, assault head, pulp.  This kill sequence is so reliable even putting head prio over legs doesn't prevent it.  Rather disgusting.

    Only problem is beating a Bard or a BM, which involves breaking the right leg three times (twice just to mitigate Trueparry/Augment).  Although I guess everybody probably has this problem.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
    Arador
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 517 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Addama said:
    So since runic empowerment was added, Dual Blunt has become a more realistic option for Runewardens.

    Targets with ~4200 health break limbs in six morningstar hits, so if you consider 5 for each leg and 5 to prep head, that's 15 hits, so your prep work is about 20 seconds.  That's the fastest prep by far for any of the specs.

    Basic idea:

    Prep both legs and head.  Expend on left arm liberally, expend on torso only if you don't have anything better to do with momentum. 

    Once that's done, work up to 8 momentum, expend left arm to drop parry, doublewhirl both legs and expend to prone, doublewhirl head, you'll have 6 momentum, assault head, pulp.  This kill sequence is so reliable even putting head prio over legs doesn't prevent it.  Rather disgusting.

    Only problem is beating a Bard or a BM, which involves breaking the right leg three times (twice just to mitigate Trueparry/Augment).  Although I guess everybody probably has this problem.
    Tumble.
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
    BorranExelethril
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    From what I understand, pulp requires Mangled head. Level 2 break where you get concussion. At least how I interpreted @Makarios' post at the top of this page. If that is indeed the case, then it is broken in game cause you can currently pulp with just a level 1 head break and prone.

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