Dual Blunt Discussion

Kellonius

Cynlael said:

That's strange. Makarios said on test server that it's only meant to increase the damage if they're both prone, and have broken limbs, when I asked him about it. My tests proved his statement correct too... Don't see anything in logs about it changing

No, you're right. What I'm saying is that there are two bonuses, one for prone and one for hitting a broken limb. So if you break legs and prone, then attack a non-broken limb, the damage will be higher than regular but not as high as if you keep hitting legs.

Cynlael

I know what you're saying. I'm saying that Makarios said there's not meant to be -any- bonuses, unless you attack a broken limb while they're proned.

Kellonius

OH! Maybe its a bug then.

Makarios

That changed during the gap between the test server and it going live. This way should provide more options.

Amranu

What's everyone's thoughts on the new afflictions? Is there any way to actually stick them?

Yurdan

Seems like it's primarily to add some raid utility.

Leviticus

Have to test it out

Nemutaur

well an expend torso gives paralysis so if you do that first your second whirl will bypass parry if you need that. Not sure how good it is compared to left arm expend, but its an option. 

Mizik

What prevents these affs from being insta cured? 

And expend is every few attacks, yeah? 

Aedin

Mizik said:

What prevents these affs from being insta cured? 

And expend is every few attacks, yeah? 

Correct there really nothing to prevent any of these to be cured instant. I personally think going with a same idea as two handed with fractures would probably give better results. Only giving fractures on expend hits should. 

Khorus

Yea I think expend causing recurring afflictions could bode really well for combat with dual blunt. As it is you -can- stick confusion, briefly, on a head break with expend to head. Because the head break already gives a high priority affliction they'll be off herb balance briefly, but it's not enough time to make much use out of it, I've just been using it against magi in retardation.

Also just found out duelling Aegoth that killing someone in Dform (8k hp) is actually impossible. Went through the pulp sequence multiple times perfectly, always stood before assault.

Wessux

Were you using flails? Did he just stand there and take it? Did he tumble? Did you use the correct setup? Did you accidentally expend early? 

Impossible is a bold word. 

Yurdan

If anyone has DB logs you should for sure post them.

Arador

Double break arms before you break legs, use Morningstars

Jovolo

Khorus said:

Yea I think expend causing recurring afflictions could bode really well for combat with dual blunt. As it is you -can- stick confusion, briefly, on a head break with expend to head. Because the head break already gives a high priority affliction they'll be off herb balance briefly, but it's not enough time to make much use out of it, I've just been using it against magi in retardation.

Also just found out duelling Aegoth that killing someone in Dform (8k hp) is actually impossible. Went through the pulp sequence multiple times perfectly, always stood before assault.

Not really a perfect pulp sequence if he always stood before assault. Can you start posting logs alongside your findings?

Khorus

Sorry, my logs are all destroyed by gags, I'll have to start logging without the SVO logger. I'll make sure to start posting some of my findings, I've just been trying to map it out perfectly so that the logs you get won't simply be of tests.

Cooper

We can probably sift through the gags, just post them anyway.

Kellonius

Khorus said:

Yea I think expend causing recurring afflictions could bode really well for combat with dual blunt. As it is you -can- stick confusion, briefly, on a head break with expend to head. Because the head break already gives a high priority affliction they'll be off herb balance briefly, but it's not enough time to make much use out of it, I've just been using it against magi in retardation.

Also just found out duelling Aegoth that killing someone in Dform (8k hp) is actually impossible. Went through the pulp sequence multiple times perfectly, always stood before assault.

Aegoth says you were using flails. T/F? If you were using flails, pulp will never work. 

@Yurdan Also, the purpose of the afflictions on expend were a direct to classlead 129 - essentially that dual blunt has no real way to slow down affliction classes, which is why the afflictions are aimed at making attacks harder(paralysis, confusion, clumsy).

@Mizik Expend is 2 momentum(max 8) for each limb besides legs, which is 3. So it really just depends on how you want to use your momentum.

Kellonius

Well, I just tested it:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/d18173de

So I pulped him, but do you see why? Bad restore. He would have been standing had he not restored. Second log:

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/148219b2

Took like four tries but I finally beat his curing to do it. During the second or third try I had balance about three-tenths of a second before he stood up but couldn't get the pulp off. I was chasing balance not queuing. I haven't messed with queuing much so it could be faster.

All said: I was using level 3 morningstars with nimble and he was just standing there. I don't think the insta-kill should be THAT hard to pull off.

Yurdan

Any reason you're not breaking both of the legs at once?

Aedin

@Kellonius why not try...

Prep head, arm, both legs
DW ARM <Broke>
DW EX Legs
DW head
ASSAULT Head
Pulp?

Not DB anymore but I was able to pull off pulp nearly everytime with lvl3 flails.

Mizik

Is Whirl faster than Doublewhirl?

Kellonius

Aedin said:

@Kellonius why not try...

Prep head, arm, both legs
DW ARM <Broke>
DW EX Legs
DW head
ASSAULT Head
Pulp?

Not DB anymore but I was able to pull off pulp nearly everytime with lvl3 flails.

You wont have enough momentum to assault that way. Lets assume you start with 8 momentum:
DW ARM <broke> - still 8 momentum
DW EX Legs - minus 4 mometum, 4 remaining. I feel like this was a ninja change. Wasn't it 3 momentum to expend legs before?
DW Head - Gain 2 momentum, 6 total, assuming you're bugged and your momentum doesn't decrease on its own.
Assault - requires at least 7 momentum. Not enough momentum.

edit: Even if expend legs was 3 momentum and not 4, you would still be pushing it by breaking arms, expending legs, then breaking head due to the natural decay of momentum and target rebounding.

@mizik Whirl is the same speed as doublewhirl. Also expend can only be done on a doublewhirl. As far as I can see there is no advantage to using a single whirl, as you only gain half as much momentum. 

Kellonius

Yurdan said:

Any reason you're not breaking both of the legs at once?

@yurdan Yes, because momentum. Expending on the legs is costly(at least 3 momentum. Its doing 4 right now, I could have sworn it was doing 3 before. Not sure if it was changed). Maximum momentum is 8. Assault takes 5 momentum, requires 7 to use. So you can't go from double leg breaking with expend(for prone) to a head break to assault, because the math wont work out. In order the maximize the time your opponent is prone, and to build the required momentum back for assault, you must break their legs separately, and prone on the very first break.

Kellonius

@aedin Log snippet of breaking your way, just to show you.

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/247b2a49

Aedin

Kellonius said:

@aedin Log snippet of breaking your way, just to show you.

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/247b2a49

Nvm its one momentum off hm give me a few to think of new option

Kellonius

Aedin said:

Kellonius said:

@aedin Log snippet of breaking your way, just to show you.

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/247b2a49

Nvm its one momentum off hm give me a few to think of new option

Heh, let me know if you do, but I promise you I've sat around for hours working on it, and the solution I use is the most reliable, but still only has a success rate of less than 50% if the target isn't terrible about rebounding.

Wessux

Now this is me going off numbers I was given using Morningstars (I think level 3) But here's what I found sitting down for 3 minutes. Please feel free to test or tell me what's wrong with my numbers. I also don't know at what point you can expend. Now if you can expend on the first hit of the DW then that will only make it easier.

Start at 8 momentum:

0.0 DW Arm/Leg expend leg       0.0 apply restoration to legs         (5 Momentum)
2.3 DW Leg/Head                                                                           (7 Momentum)
                                                  4.0 apply mending to legs
4.6 Assault                                                                                     (2 Momentum)
                                                  5.0 apply restoration to legs
7.1 Pulp                                     Dead.
                                                  9.0 apply mending to legs

Again, I'm only going off of numbers I was given by people so I might be missing some stuff but that looks straight forward to me.

Wessux

In case they cure head over legs.

Start at 8 momentum:

0.0 DW Arm/Leg expend leg       0.0 apply restoration to legs         (5 Momentum)
2.3 DW Leg/Head                                                                          (7 Momentum)
                                                 4.0 apply restoration to head
4.6 Assault                                                                                    (2 Momentum)
7.1 Pulp                                     Dead.
                                                 8.0 apply restoration to head

Kellonius

@wessux look at my logs, expend legs is taking 4 momentum, not 3.