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The Big Change - Combat

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  • KaihutiKaihuti
    no, inline envenoming is just an alias, it still takes 3 actions to envenom and dstab, 4 if you want to be safe and purge first. I guess just have to preenvenom the dirk and get lucky.
  • TeshaTesha
    Serpent is actually one of the stronger classes for straightup retardation fighting, because dstab venoms can be selected while in retardation, meaning you don't need to pre-envenom. Even if you do have to pre-envenom (you didn't when I was serpent), you can make an alias to mass envenom and hit it when you see embed.

     i'm a rebel

  • AddamaAddama
    One of the sad things about Runeblades is that you can't DSL under 2 seconds anymore (without arties) so Nairat stacking isn't feasible any longer.

    Also I didn't get a response to my bug report about Eihwaz, so I assume it hasn't been fixed yet.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • MorthifMorthif
    str scaling is utter rubbish ... Please please please say it's an error?
  • DjiDji
    Morthif said:
    str scaling is utter rubbish ... Please please please say it's an error?
    The increase from logosian gauntlets was kind of terrible. Like 2% max health more, for 3 strength/2500 credits.
  • SarapisSarapis
    There's a good chance anything that looks ridiculous is an error.


  • AmranuAmranu
    Apparently using warhammer fixes 2 hand bashing
  • ErnamErnam
    Kaihuti said:
    Kind of curious how a serpent is supposed to kill anyone in retardation if arrows miss when all attacks take 2-3 actions and don't do damage.
    Um, fight in retardation, like everyone freaking else.  Also, you have passive afflictions (serpent pet) which are incredibly good in retardation.  Serpent also has the ability to hit with two afflictions at a time, is able to safely use rebounding, can easily evade out of iced floors/through icewalls, and has one of the most powerful anti-retardation abilities in the entire game, hypnosis (you can trigger like 20 afflictions that land alongside your pet's passive afflictions), which are insanely brutal against a magi in their own retardation.  With basic curing, a shrug, perhaps an evade, and proper hindrance (pinshot) prior to retardation landing, serpent is easily one of the best classes in the game vs. retardation.  Most serpents simply don't know this, because they've spent the last 10 years winning every retardation battle with delphinium snipes.

    Also, I'd like to go ahead and point out that that was my classlead.  Go me.
  • ErnamErnam

    Xith said:
    Kaihuti said:
    Kind of curious how a serpent is supposed to kill anyone in retardation if arrows miss when all attacks take 2-3 actions and don't do damage.
    RE: Magi

    The vibes are inert in retardation now, so Magi actually has the disadvantage against lockers.

    In other words, you get kills like you're supposed to but easier. And can't you DSTAB <venom> <venom> now?

    It'd be achievable by pre-envenoming regardless of if that works (which I tested, but forgot the result).
  • XithXith
    Ernam said:
    Kaihuti said:
    Kind of curious how a serpent is supposed to kill anyone in retardation if arrows miss when all attacks take 2-3 actions and don't do damage.
    Um, fight in retardation, like everyone freaking else.  Also, you have passive afflictions (serpent pet) which are incredibly good in retardation.  Serpent also has the ability to hit with two afflictions at a time, is able to safely use rebounding, can easily evade out of iced floors/through icewalls, and has one of the most powerful anti-retardation abilities in the entire game, hypnosis (you can trigger like 20 afflictions that land alongside your pet's passive afflictions), which are insanely brutal against a magi in their own retardation.  With basic curing, a shrug, perhaps an evade, and proper hindrance (pinshot) prior to retardation landing, serpent is easily one of the best classes in the game vs. retardation.  Most serpents simply don't know this, because they've spent the last 10 years winning every retardation battle with delphinium snipes.

    Also, I'd like to go ahead and point out that that was my classlead.  Go me.
    It was like a million people's classlead.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • XithXith
    Using the golem as a focus, you are able to perform spells that would
    otherwise be impossible. Most spells performed in this way require a
    certain crystal to be part of the golem (these are noted in the relevant
    ability files). However, be warned. The larger your golem, the more its
    presence shall interfere with your crystalline vibrations, with
    potentially dissasterous results. The pragmatic sorcerer shall endeavour
    to balance both his golem's size with the number of vibrations he or she
    has active at any one time.


    So... anybody have an idea what the balance is or is that just gibberish?
    Does it mess up the timers or cause them to not fire or what..
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • AeliosAelios
    So far, with my further testing -  2H is sexy. Very sexy. It's the best method I can imagine if you're a Paladin. It's got solid sustain, great momentum...

    However, the biggest problem with 2H is that there is zero hinder.

    At 3.7 seconds of balance per strike, your target can simply walk out of the room. Zero penalty minus an engage strike.


    It's nothing versus S&B though -- poor guys can't even Disembowel without breaking 3 limbs. (Prep with 1 weapon is insanely long too!)

    "You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."

     -Albert Einstein

  • ValentinusValentinus Los Angeles, CA
    Concerning alteration of phials:

    Apparently, when you alter a phial you only have five extra points to allot to each one.  The maximum a phial can be altered in any category is up to five, so you have to pick and choose where you'd like your alteration points to go.  Will be interesting to experiment further.


    I take commissions.
  • AeliosAelios
    Also, you can dstab in retard on a single line now. 

    DSTAB (name) (venom1) (venom2)

    "You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."

     -Albert Einstein

  • JarrodJarrod
    Potentially a bug, similar to COMBO on implementation.

    Either way, Serpent is very strong inside retardation.
    image
    Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."

  • XithXith
    Yeah with stupidity, disrupt and so on in hypno. If they're prepped before the vibe goes down, you win. If they're not, they still get eq back after you so you can probably still win.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • MakariosMakarios
    I feel its necessary to mention that snb can disembowel off of a single limb break; shield club is comboable with impale. Its the balancing factor for them having the longest limb prep times of the four specialisations.
  • ValariaValaria
    i noticed that sword and shield abilities didn't generate any kai for the monks whom enemied them at all.

    i think it is a bug. I haven't test it for other weaponmastery yet. 

    2015/01/12
Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
  • ErnamErnam
    Xith said:
    Using the golem as a focus, you are able to perform spells that would
    otherwise be impossible. Most spells performed in this way require a
    certain crystal to be part of the golem (these are noted in the relevant
    ability files). However, be warned. The larger your golem, the more its
    presence shall interfere with your crystalline vibrations, with
    potentially dissasterous results. The pragmatic sorcerer shall endeavour
    to balance both his golem's size with the number of vibrations he or she
    has active at any one time.


    So... anybody have an idea what the balance is or is that just gibberish?
    Does it mess up the timers or cause them to not fire or what..

    The more abilities you give your golem, the less vibes you can use at a time.  Not sure on the actual numbers, yet.
  • AntoniusAntonius
    Any chance we could get GMCP support for some of the new Knight things at some point? Notably:

    Weaponmastery spec in gmcp.Char.Status
    Battlefury balance in gmcp.Char.Vitals
    Momentum in gmcp.Char.Vitals
    Ferocity in gmcp.Char.Vitals

    Also looks like the in-game custom prompt isn't working with the new balances and resources.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • ErnamErnam
    Antonius said:
    Any chance we could get GMCP support for some of the new Knight things at some point? Notably:

    Weaponmastery spec in gmcp.Char.Status
    Battlefury balance in gmcp.Char.Vitals
    Momentum in gmcp.Char.Vitals
    Ferocity in gmcp.Char.Vitals

    Also looks like the in-game custom prompt isn't working with the new balances and resources.

    This is just as a coder, but why do people keep chanting for everything to be added to GMCP?  GMCP is awesome for many, many things, but many of the things I see people asking for (like these) are incredibly easy to track via good old fashioned triggers.

    And you can't say efficiency, unless you're using a 1975 computer that makes big, chunky, bright-green staircases for diagonal lines.  This is particularly true for things that can be acquired in prompts (like battlefury, momentum, ferocity), but is also the case for things that can easily be tracked with as little as a single basic trigger (like weaponmastery spec).


    If they're not showing up in prompts, then that's almost certainly a bug.  Once it is fixed, just add it to your prompt info, and collect it from there?


  • AntoniusAntonius
    Because GMCP is totally independent of what's displayed on my prompt, and therefore allows me to write scripts that aren't dependent on having a specific format set.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • JukilianJukilian
    Ernam said:
    Xith said:
    Using the golem as a focus, you are able to perform spells that would
    otherwise be impossible. Most spells performed in this way require a
    certain crystal to be part of the golem (these are noted in the relevant
    ability files). However, be warned. The larger your golem, the more its
    presence shall interfere with your crystalline vibrations, with
    potentially dissasterous results. The pragmatic sorcerer shall endeavour
    to balance both his golem's size with the number of vibrations he or she
    has active at any one time.


    So... anybody have an idea what the balance is or is that just gibberish?
    Does it mess up the timers or cause them to not fire or what..

    The more abilities you give your golem, the less vibes you can use at a time.  Not sure on the actual numbers, yet.
    I did some testing with a near full vibestack.

    I had a golem with 4 crystals in it, and maybe about 50% of the abilities I used with the golem caused longer equilibrium recovery times. I believe that my be the effect, from what I've seen at least. I didn't try a golem with every crystal, so I dunno.
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TN
    Aelios said:
    So far, with my further testing -  2H is sexy. Very sexy. It's the best method I can imagine if you're a Paladin. It's got solid sustain, great momentum...

    However, the biggest problem with 2H is that there is zero hinder.

    At 3.7 seconds of balance per strike, your target can simply walk out of the room. Zero penalty minus an engage strike.


    It's nothing versus S&B though -- poor guys can't even Disembowel without breaking 3 limbs. (Prep with 1 weapon is insanely long too!)
    Piety, Gravehands.

    You.. you have runeblades.. don't you start wanting our stuff now.

  • ErnamErnam
    edited January 2015

    I'm really not that worried about it.

    There are only a few significant abilities, one of which doesn't actually even require a crystal (hypnotise), and you can easily use schematics to swap between builds anyways, so at no point would you ever really need to use a bunch at one time.

    They also got a pretty damn easy instakill that happens to bypass starburst (a mechanic that I personally dislike very much, that seems to be getting more popular).

    I do find it strange that Destabilise is a single golem ability that gives Magi 21 more abilities for the price of one, some of which are extremely powerful (retardation, stridulation, revelation, lullaby, dissonance)


    They also got fullsight.  Just shelling that out to everyone these days, it seems.
  • JukilianJukilian
    Destabilise is the only ability you get from Sphere at least. If it were Destabilise + anything else, I think that'd seem ridiculous. So you need to have one crystal slot dedicated to it.

    However, not all vibes are useful when destabilised (in my opinion). Hits everyone in the room, after all. And kills the vibe.

    Only disadvantage to using schematics to switch your golem's builds around is that you lose the crystals in the process. However if you deconstruct and rebuild (two equilibriums, so losing the crystals is maybe worth it) you get the crystals back. Time to stock up on a ton of crystals, I suppose.
  • AntoniusAntonius
    Ernam said:

    This is just as a coder ... And you can't say efficiency ...

    Going to derail quickly, but:

    Actually, I could say efficiency. The time it takes code to execute is only part - and very rarely the most important part unless you're dealing with very time critical systems (like a plane) - of the decision when it comes to efficiency. Processing power is far cheaper than programmer time, so being able to implement functionality quickly - and in a fashion that's intuitive and readable for others - is the far more important consideration when it comes to efficiency most of the time. Using a value provided by GMCP is faster, easier and more maintainable (i.e. more efficient) than creating a ton of triggers that provide the same information; I'd also be essentially outsourcing the majority of the testing to IRE. It's the same reason most people use existing libraries rather than (re-)implementing functionality for themselves in coding projects.

    There's also the fact that Svo apparently doesn't work with prompt tags like *r and *k (that's the new one for momentum/ferocity); right now I can't pull the values from the in-game prompt and continue using my existing Svo prompt even if I wanted to. By contrast, if it was in GMCP I could have added it to Svo's prompt in about a minute.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

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