Tradeskill split

Tael

The point isn't that you can't opt out, it's that opting out is expensive. Which means fewer people will opt out. Which means a more robust economy for forgers.

It's the same reasoning as to the new ramping cost of tradeskills - you can opt-out of player interaction by buying all of the tradeskills at the increased cost, but it's expensive, which means fewer people will opt out. Which means more player interaction.

If you want to opt-out, you have to buy an artefact. You can't just pay 50cr to not have to buy weapons anymore.

Being able to make weapons permanent for 50cr would be to forging what being able to make herbs (as in all of your herbs at once) permanent for 50cr would be to concoctions (or whatever the hell it's called now).

The tradeskill-generated things you can make permanent (clothes/jewelery) are things that people will often still replace. Even if you have a set of clothes that you've made non-decay (bearing in mind that a full set of clothing made non-decay costs a lot more than 50cr - enough that I don't actually know anyone who's done it, though I'm sure someone has), you'll still likely end up buying other clothes for certain RP occasions and uses.

Weaponry (though not really armour) is also a somewhat bigger deal to be able to make permanent and customise. Most items have to be shown off or actively looked at to see the customisation, but wielded weapons are very visible - they show up in room descriptions by default, various messages, etc. There are a few similar items (staves come to mind), but not many and a number of other wieldables can't be customised (I don't think spiritual maces can be and I know blademaster swords can't be, even if banded).

Trevize

The way I look at it is that ti's a combination of the player economy and the fact you CAN get arties (or will be able to). Artefact clothes/jewellery aren't as readily available (some, but not much) so nodecay/resetting makes sense.

I always found making pipes/vials resetting/nodecay a bit odd.

Khaibit

because some vials are pretty and rare?

Wessux

Khaibit said:

because some vials are pretty and rare?

Your face is pretty and rare!!! Burn!!!! Wait......

Jules

I wonder if the artifact armour is going to be monstrously awesome (hoping not, frankly).  I'd also love it if they made it so you only need one weapon (and hold a shield in the other) Imperian style.  I'd be a lot more likely to spring for one 1600 credit weapon than two for 3200 - and multiclassing does mean I'll still be dropping *plenty* of fresh cash into Achaea.  Then again, enough people probably already have two artie weapons, etc... that it won't happen.  

Nim

Jules said:

I wonder if the artifact armour is going to be monstrously awesome (hoping not, frankly).  I'd also love it if they made it so you only need one weapon (and hold a shield in the other) Imperian style.  I'd be a lot more likely to spring for one 1600 credit weapon than two for 3200 - and multiclassing does mean I'll still be dropping *plenty* of fresh cash into Achaea.  Then again, enough people probably already have two artie weapons, etc... that it won't happen.  

Sword and board is, in fact, going to be a thing, as are two-handed weapons. Dual wielding is but one option!

Trevize

Khaibit said:

because some vials are pretty and rare?

But here's my thing - you can get an artie vial/pipe and customize it for less.

Trey

Trevize said:

Khaibit said:

because some vials are pretty and rare?

But here's my thing - you can get an artie vial/pipe and customize it for less.

Depends on if the vial or pipe have any special reactions.  Could be same/more.

Bluef

I think he means the ones sold in Moghedu. You can customise their description for 50 credits and for a total cost of 90 credits you get a custom, nondecay/resetting vial. Even if you added 2 reactions to it, you'd still only be looking at 140 credits compared to 150 credits to make a normal or unique vial non-decay and resetting with the same reactions. Maybe. Idk, I'm guessing here.

Addama

Them Mhuns gotta make money somehow

Xith

Trevize said:

Khaibit said:

because some vials are pretty and rare?

But here's my thing - you can get an artie vial/pipe and customize it for less.

Non-decay is only 50. If you're doing resetting on a common vial you might as well get an Artie vial and change the description. But don't put resetting on a normal vial... Nobody's going to steal it. 

Bluef

Sometimes people put nondecay/resetting on unique vials - like Order vials, House vials, etc. The cost difference though shows that it would be far cheaper to buy a diamond vial and just customise it to appear similar (but not exactly the same as obviously) the org vial...and it'd be cooler because you'd be the only one who had it.

Jules

^I gave up on buying bazaar steeds for pretty much the same reason.  Why would I want a little war horse when I can take the parts I like from the description (especially since they're clearly not always written by horse people), and tailor it to my liking on a legendsteed?  That said, I still wish they'd made the non-flying equines on the "extraordinarily powerful" tier, and I'm actually hoarding an uncollared mini-herd for this reason (I just can't decide if it's worth pushing the collar button on them).  Not sure why they didn't continue to make all non-flyers "extraordinarily powerful", but admin said it was intentional... Generally, the tradeoff for not flying seemed to be that the mount was (if just slightly) tankier.  All of the old mounts were that way.  Anyway, customisation is amazing, yay for it.  

Theris

I have a question about the Concoctions/Transmutation merging, and I'm sorry if I missed the answer somewhere in the many posts of this thread. I understand that Harvesting and Synthesis (which allow gathering of herbs and minerals, respectively) will exist apart, but it sounds like Concoctions and Transmutation (the skills for brewing cures from herbs/minerals) are going to be combined into a single skill (let's call it Brewing), which will allow the creation of elixirs/salves from herbs or minerals.

My question is: how will the new Brewing skill work? One of the great things about the old Concoctions is that you can brew cures anywhere, as long as you have a pot and the ingredients (which means that you don't have to carry around a ton of vials). I'm not familiar with the old Transmutation, but it is my understanding that in order to brew cures from minerals, one must be in an alchemy laboratory. Will the new Brewing allow one to brew cures anywhere, or will the person need to be in a specific location, like a brewing room?

Shirszae

@Theris Being in the laboratory was only needed for minerals, not for tonics.

Theris

Oh, okay, so new brewing will probably be doable from anywhere. Well, there goes more of my money.

Prythe

And my question is since the mixing of ingredient stuff will result in the same curative stuff will the chasm between those who concoct and those who transmute be disappeared so that people with one or the other (or both? - but why!) skills can begin to reside in the same place?

Will Eleusians be able to choose Alchemy?

Will Concoctionists be able to choose something other than one of the remaining two or three "forestal" Houses and singular Village?

Tael

Prythe said:

And my question is since the mixing of ingredient stuff will result in the same curative stuff will the chasm between those who concoct and those who transmute be disappeared so that people with one or the other (or both? - but why!) skills can begin to reside in the same place?

Will Eleusians be able to choose Alchemy?

Will Concoctionists be able to choose something other than one of the remaining two or three "forestal" Houses and singular Village?

I would assume no. Barring pretty large, sudden RP developments and some unmentioned mechanical changes, there are pretty strong reasons for the current situation. And given that herbs/minerals are still split, I think it's pretty unlikely.

It would also lead to some problems - problems that were the reason alchemical cures were created in the first place:

You probably want the Nature faction to have some control over people's ability to harvest. You don't want someone who burns down all of the forests all the time to be able to harvest (for the same reason that the Good faction can strip Devotion from someone).

At the same time, that creates a problem for any faction that opposes Nature, since PK-based conflict requires curatives. In the past, embargoes and such (enforced by stripping people who violated them of the ability to harvest) provided for some interesting RP for a while, but got very old.

Though I am curious how Oakstone will interact with the new Harvesting skill. What happens if you get forest enemied? Does your harvesting miniskill automatically convert into the corresponding alchemical miniskill? Is there a way to "forget" the harvesting miniskill to allow you to learn the alchemical one (to learn it at all if they're mutually exclusive, or to learn it without incurring the more-than-two-tradeskills penalty if they aren't)?

Nakari

being forest enemied doesn't prevent harvesting

Jonathin

Tael, sometimes I feel like you post novels because you. are hiding some kind of contract for my soul in there and are just waiting for me to hit agree to suck my soul through the internet.

Sable

Just noticed this. After combining the liquid cures, how will Sulphur and Mercury work from Alchemy? I'm guessing they'll just work on the new cures like they did vit/ment, but just want clarification there.

Antonius

@Sable: What do they do now?

Sable

Antonius said:

@Sable: What do they do now?

Just make sipping vit and ment heal better. Like a level 1 sip ring, essentially, except an ability. Currently, I'll occasionally sip 1100 with a level 1 ring and Sulphur (vit) up where others might hit 900 on an extreme.

Slight exaggeration, likely, with the numbers, but that's still my outlier so far.

Makarios

They'll just work for health/mana elixirs instead.

Sable

Figured as much. Thanks.

Tael

Nakari said:

being forest enemied doesn't prevent harvesting

...Really? I remember it used to...Can Oakstone not strip forestal skills anymore?

Jonathin said:

Tael, sometimes I feel like you post novels because you. are hiding some kind of contract for my soul in there and are just waiting for me to hit agree to suck my soul through the internet.

Blame grad school - that's where I learned to conceal the contract.

Rangor

Oakstone enemying removes your grove abilities and involves getting ganked when lingering in forests.

Shunsui

So the weapon proficiency token we're getting for having the rapier prof, will that teach us whatever proficiency we want on the spot, or do we still need to go to a proficiency teacher to use it. I really don't feel like tracking someone down to get me into Hashan just so I can pick up warhammers  

Addama

Shunsui said:

So the weapon proficiency token we're getting for having the rapier prof, will that teach us whatever proficiency we want on the spot, or do we still need to go to a proficiency teacher to use it. I really don't feel like tracking someone down to get me into Hashan just so I can pick up warhammers  

I think this has been brought up before and they're going to fix it.

Tibitha

Shunsui said:

So the weapon proficiency token we're getting for having the rapier prof, will that teach us whatever proficiency we want on the spot, or do we still need to go to a proficiency teacher to use it. I really don't feel like tracking someone down to get me into Hashan just so I can pick up warhammers  

I may know someone, who knows someone, who knows where to find someone that can get you in. For a price of course.