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Tradeskill split

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  • SiduriSiduri
    To add on the above comment, because I had to leave home in a hurry and lost my edit timer:
    Lachlan and Kaiu were born Shallamese and have never hopped a single time to another faction, nor been rogue with the exception of their time as refugees, nor changed classes in the meantime.

    1. Lifetime class adherence.
    2. Lifetime city adherence.
    3. Lifetime and exemplary personal services.

    Many asked to be grandfathered, but none compared to that curriculum, and none were accepted.
    (Hell, even my first character tried, and was told no, and I'm not even mad)

    image
  • GrandueGrandue
    Sena said:
    Will it be possible to forget a tradeskill in order to choose another? I'm mostly thinking of people who choose concoctions/transmutation and then later want to go alchemist/forestal, but have a conflicting tradeskill. Obviously taking a certain tradeskill shouldn't permanently lock your character out of a class (or three), so how will it work?
    I'm also curious about this.

    Surely there must be some way of switching between concoctions and transmutation at least. This raises even more questions though.

    If you can trade in these skills, will it be a full refund of the lessons spent or only a partial trade-in?

    If it is only a partial trade in, then will ALL trade skills be able to be traded in for a partial refund?

    If the trade-in is only allowed for concoctions/transmutation, then will it be in the form of lessons or will it be in the form of some kind of token that allows them to only learn the opposite curative trade instead of say, weapon forging?

    If a monk who learned transmutation and synthesis wants to become a druid or sentinel or sylvan, and the monk learned those trade skills as his/her 1st and 2nd trade skill and then went on to learn 3 other trade skills, when they go to learn harvesting and concoctions, would they learn them as a 1st and 2nd trade skill or would they learn them as a 4th and 5th trade skill and get nailed with the lesson penalty?

    If the former is the case and they are able to get rid of transmutation and synthesis from their 1st and 2nd trade slot, what would stop them from learning something else in those slots instead of concoctions and harvesting?

    It doesn't feel right to ding someone with a huge penalty for switching from a transmutation-only class to a concoction-only class now that it is no longer one of the class skills. If there is only a partial refund of lessons spend on a trade skill, it would mean that for a transmutation monk to switch to a druid it could cost 100+ more credits than it would to switch class to a serpent or it would cost an Ashtani monk 100+ credits to become an Eleusian monk. 

    Having the separation between transmutation and concoctions just makes things unnecessarily complicated. Combine them into one curative skill or something. Or give forestals an increased harvesting speed or yield and the same for alchemists instead of hardcoding that alchemists are physically unable to harvest plants even though every other class in the world can. Give forestals an incentive to harvest plants instead of extract minerals because they're more adept at it instead of making it impossible to choose. 

    If it truly isn't a class skill and is now a trade skill, make it a full trade skill instead of this weird hybrid half-trade-half-class skill thing we have here.
  • TreyTrey
    Rispok said:
    Will it be possible to 'power level' forging by just doing clubs and bucklers? What mechanics can we expect to deter this kind of abuse?
    I forget who, but someone official stated before that clubs are getting buhleeted.

  • AchimrstAchimrst Nature
    Ahmet said:
    Are Alchemists finally going to get a skill where they can fold themselves into the ether (similar to Blackwind/Astralform)?
    If Alchemists get this I want Spiritwalking to be more useful.
  • KinilanKinilan
    Trey said:
    Rispok said:
    Will it be possible to 'power level' forging by just doing clubs and bucklers? What mechanics can we expect to deter this kind of abuse?
    I forget who, but someone official stated before that clubs are getting buhleeted.
    Ugh. I wanted to be a grandmaster club maker. :(
  • AddamaAddama
    Kenway said:

    That said, even with dual cutting the chance to miss one of your two delph jabs on a leg break is possibly the single most frustrating thing ive ever experienced. But that at least can be worked around with a paralysis stick.
    This this this this this.

    Knights shouldn't hit 100% of the time against everything - avoidance/dodging is the only way classes like Jester are able to survive their damage/prep - but to make the default to-hit so low that everything gets a significant dodge chance would throw Knights under the bus hard.  Disembowel sequences are already pretty easy to avoid, we needn't make a percentage of them simply fail on RNG as well.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • SyriSyri
    A final attempt:

    @Sarapis @Tecton‌

    Will the forging/weapon rework affect a Jester's blackjacks in any way? (Since they're all ready standardized)

    Will there be a way for blackjacks to get the new forging adjectives?

    Thanks!
  • AddamaAddama
    Syri said:
    A final attempt:

    @Sarapis @Tecton‌

    Will the forging/weapon rework affect a Jester's blackjacks in any way? (Since they're all ready standardized)

    Will there be a way for blackjacks to get the new forging adjectives?

    Thanks!
    Just guessing that, since this also won't affect Maces, you're probably out of luck.

    On the other hand, throwing daggers/axes will get the adjectives, so you're not totally left out.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • SyriSyri
    Addama said:
    Syri said:
    A final attempt:

    @Sarapis @Tecton‌

    Will the forging/weapon rework affect a Jester's blackjacks in any way? (Since they're all ready standardized)

    Will there be a way for blackjacks to get the new forging adjectives?

    Thanks!
    Just guessing that, since this also won't affect Maces, you're probably out of luck.

    On the other hand, throwing daggers/axes will get the adjectives, so you're not totally left out.
    :(

    Oh well. I do love those throwing knives!
  • KardalKardal Belgium
    It's cool and interesting how you can master certain things in armourforging or weaponforging. And through tiers new things can be unlocked. But how will this be accessible for the customer? Will there be some list with forgerwho, or something like that? Will people looking for a certain kind of customization just have to ask through market if a forger that knows how to apply it is around, or will there be some sort of NDS-like list where names appear from forgers who have indeed unlocked certain tiers/things.
  • KendrickKendrick
    Syri said:
    A final attempt:

    @Sarapis @Tecton‌

    Will the forging/weapon rework affect a Jester's blackjacks in any way? (Since they're all ready standardized)

    Will there be a way for blackjacks to get the new forging adjectives?

    Thanks!
    Well, blackjacks aren't in forging, anyway. I'm pretty sure the only way to get them is still for a Jester to summon one!
  • AddamaAddama
    Phallic blackjack
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • TrillianaTrilliana
    Trey said:
    Rispok said:
    Will it be possible to 'power level' forging by just doing clubs and bucklers? What mechanics can we expect to deter this kind of abuse?
    I forget who, but someone official stated before that clubs are getting buhleeted.
    But that means Trilli won't have an ugly stick any more!!
    meh


  • WaydeWayde
    edited December 2014
    Honestly I'll sum up my feelings on this in one simple way.

    This trade skill stunt is like going to mcdonalds and buying a mcdouble. Then after you take your food and pay, they call the police and force you to give them back the burger stating they will be doing you a favor by giving you a kick ass salad instead and then making two single burgers, but you'll have to pay again if you want the two single burgers at a higher price.

    I JUST WANT A MCDOUBLE!
  • SyriSyri
    Kendrick said:
    Syri said:
    A final attempt:

    @Sarapis @Tecton‌

    Will the forging/weapon rework affect a Jester's blackjacks in any way? (Since they're all ready standardized)

    Will there be a way for blackjacks to get the new forging adjectives?

    Thanks!
    Well, blackjacks aren't in forging, anyway. I'm pretty sure the only way to get them is still for a Jester to summon one!
    Yeah, they're not, but with Forging changes I wonder if their weapon stats are getting a change as well? It's also a bit disappointing that, given the incoming customization of weapons, blackjacks will still have the same, boring descriptor.
  • JonathinJonathin Retired in a hole.
    edited December 2014
    edit: that's not really nice because everyone can have an opinion.
    I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
  • XithXith
    Syri said:
    Kendrick said:
    Syri said:
    A final attempt:

    @Sarapis @Tecton‌

    Will the forging/weapon rework affect a Jester's blackjacks in any way? (Since they're all ready standardized)

    Will there be a way for blackjacks to get the new forging adjectives?

    Thanks!
    Well, blackjacks aren't in forging, anyway. I'm pretty sure the only way to get them is still for a Jester to summon one!
    Yeah, they're not, but with Forging changes I wonder if their weapon stats are getting a change as well? It's also a bit disappointing that, given the incoming customization of weapons, blackjacks will still have the same, boring descriptor.
    Some people were in favor of adding a marotte option.

    Which I did as best as possible with my customisation:
    This unusual blackjack consists of a long, polished handle of porcelain-white 
    elder wood, which has been tailored to its owner's grip. Affixed to the end of 
    the thin club is a lead-weighted head, its vacant visage carved flawlessly to 
    resemble a grinning Xith. Spinning in the skull's sockets are lifelike marble 
    eyes, their misaligned pupils lazily tracing the movements of those nearby in an 
    unsettling manner. A portrait of its prankster's vanity, this jester marotte has 
    been made to look exactly like Xith, even sporting miniaturised versions of his 
    current attire. Grouped inside the head are magnetic spheres that cause a 
    bizarre metallic buzzing whenever they are jostled by the weapon's collisions.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • DakloreDaklore
    edited December 2014
    @sarapis @tecton since Weaponmastery will become the primary skill for knight classes, will envenom be moved from chivalry into weaponmastery as well, especially for dual cutting, or will it still remain in chivalry? Also, are there any incoming minor changes to chivalry incoming we can look forward too, whether in the very near (next week) future, or down the road in a few months since our primary combat abilities will be in weaponmastery instead?

    Edit: Also, I believe it was stated once the cost on forging fullplate would not go down, is this true? Since fieldplate will be removed, novice Knights won't even be able to use the armour made for their class.... I mean, fullplate as is, costs around 11,000 gold in commodities alone. It's kind of hard for a novice to look at a likely 15-18K price tag just for the armour they're supposed to wear. Wheras a fieldplate costs around 4-5K at current. Sure, there will always be splintmail... but who wants to wear a priest armour instead of their knight armour? :P
    image
    When Canada rules the world,
    things will be... nii~ice.
  • AddamaAddama
    I've thought about the concoctions/transmutations problem, and I've come up with an equitable solution:

    Forestals can't do transmutations, Alchemists can't do concoctions, but any other class can do both/either.

    Cyrene and Targossas allows both concoctions and transmutations.  Eleusis is concoctions-only, Mhaldor, Ashtan and Hashan are transmutations-only. 

    Having the wrong skillset for the wrong city (e.g., trying to join Mhaldor with concoctions) does not bar you from joining that city, but being a citizen of that city prevents you from using the skillset.

    I think that's it.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • BluefBluef Delos
    edited December 2014
    From the origins of Alchemy in Achaea:

    Operating within their hall, named the Cauda Pavonis, they profited from trading transmuted minerals and tonics to the elite who could afford them. Over time, however, these curatives were replaced by other more palatable and readily available remedies, and respect for the isolated order began to dwindle. Eventually, the leader of the cabal made the fateful choice to depart from the society that shunned them once and for all. Secretly the Alchemists used their combined talents to displace the Cauda Pavonis to a fold in the ether: the space between planes.

    From Nurazar, Part III:

    Watching with only the mildest of interest, the scholars of the Cauda Pavonis observed unrest in the forestal community as well. Groves were rendered useless and beasts barely clung to life while Nature's devoteessought answers from every imaginable source.

    The Cauda Pavonis would probably not be happy with the allowances in Addama's solution (but they probably aren't happy already about the way certain cities have found work arounds for their decision to allow forestals to be grandfathered in). The difference here is that this is more than just a handful of people we're talking about now. The history of the alchemic class and its rivalry with nature should be supported, not washed away by the tradeskill changes. 
  • AchimrstAchimrst Nature
    Bluef said:
    From the origins of Alchemy in Achaea:

    Operating within their hall, named the Cauda Pavonis, they profited from trading transmuted minerals and tonics to the elite who could afford them. Over time, however, these curatives were replaced by other more palatable and readily available remedies, and respect for the isolated order began to dwindle. Eventually, the leader of the cabal made the fateful choice to depart from the society that shunned them once and for all. Secretly the Alchemists used their combined talents to displace the Cauda Pavonis to a fold in the ether: the space between planes.

    From Nurazar, Part III:

    Watching with only the mildest of interest, the scholars of the Cauda Pavonis observed unrest in the forestal community as well. Groves were rendered useless and beasts barely clung to life while Nature's devoteessought answers from every imaginable source.

    The Cauda Pavonis would probably not be happy with the allowances in Addama's solution (but they probably aren't happy already about the way certain cities have found work arounds for their decision to allow forestals to be grandfathered in). The difference here is that this is more than just a handful of people we're talking about now. The history of the alchemic class and its rivalry with nature should be supported, not washed away by the tradeskill changes. 
    There are no Alchemy organizations that even explore that RP it would just turn into Eleusis ganking shit talking Alchemists when they harvest primes.
  • AddamaAddama
    I honestly don't see another way to do it that doesn't either exclude some group of players from having either trade skill or exclude players from joining other cities based on trade skills.

    Or adding something that lets people get a partial refund to switch from one curative skillset to another.  Short of that happening, there's no pretty or nice solution.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • BluefBluef Delos
    Achimrst said:
    Bluef said:
    From the origins of Alchemy in Achaea:

    Operating within their hall, named the Cauda Pavonis, they profited from trading transmuted minerals and tonics to the elite who could afford them. Over time, however, these curatives were replaced by other more palatable and readily available remedies, and respect for the isolated order began to dwindle. Eventually, the leader of the cabal made the fateful choice to depart from the society that shunned them once and for all. Secretly the Alchemists used their combined talents to displace the Cauda Pavonis to a fold in the ether: the space between planes.

    From Nurazar, Part III:

    Watching with only the mildest of interest, the scholars of the Cauda Pavonis observed unrest in the forestal community as well. Groves were rendered useless and beasts barely clung to life while Nature's devoteessought answers from every imaginable source.

    The Cauda Pavonis would probably not be happy with the allowances in Addama's solution (but they probably aren't happy already about the way certain cities have found work arounds for their decision to allow forestals to be grandfathered in). The difference here is that this is more than just a handful of people we're talking about now. The history of the alchemic class and its rivalry with nature should be supported, not washed away by the tradeskill changes. 
    There are no Alchemy organizations that even explore that RP it would just turn into Eleusis ganking shit talking Alchemists when they harvest primes.
    Not everything has to end in a fight between Nature and whoever with shitalking and a zillion deathsights. Just saying, if that was the roleplay basis (and I believe I've only noted a small part of it) then it should be supported or explained away by another happening that has far more to do with RP than with the mechanics of trade skills. 
  • AddamaAddama
    Siduri said:
    I'm against allowing Targossians or Cyrenians to learn concoctions equally with alchemy. It's a choice we made, and it's only fair we keep to it.

    Okay, but (and this is the key problem): What if an Eleusian, who has learned Concoctions, wants to quit the city and join Targossas?  Would they be prohibited from doing so on that basis, or would there be some mechanic that would allow them to switch over to Transmutations?
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
This discussion has been closed.