Tradeskill split

Tecton

Exelethril said:

@Tecton: Will 1:1 trades for artefact daggers be on the table or just artefact knight weapons?

1:1 trade only applies to knight weapons.

Kendrick

Wait, if the changes are going to restrict Concoctions based on your city choice, what's going to happen to the Forestals that got grandfathered into Targossas and Cyrene?

Bluef

Kendrick said:

Wait, if the changes are going to restrict Concoctions based on your city choice, what's going to happen to the Forestals that got grandfathered into Targossas and Cyrene?

What about rogues? Will it be a standard 'you can take one or the other' type situation for everyone?

Kardal

@tecton If you're at liberty to say, will Warhammers have access to all abilities the Bastard-swords have? I remember while playing on the test-server that I -had- to use a Bastard-sword additionally to my Warhammer because the Warhammer was quite limited. For rp reasons and personal preference I would like to go full Warhammer.

Blujixapug

Masaryk said:

3) From an RP perspective, I am so so very sad that harvesting is opened up to all players. I understand it from the logistic side of things, but I've always felt that one should have to dedicate their class and ultimate knowledge to the natural teachings (whether House or rogue) to be able to reap the benefits from Nature. I know this isn't exactly practical, but that's just me. Maybe I just miss the days of mass scrambles at New Years for kola and selling it at 80 gold per kola? Am I right you fellow 300+ year olders?

The good old days of financing half my boat by spelunking through every cave in the game and selling tens of thousands of irid moss at 60-70 per... I wonder if any of these tradeskills will approach that level of lucre.

Melodie

Tecton said:

Alchemist can't take herbalism or concoctions, forestals can't take synthesis/transmutation, and the alch/forestal status of your city also affects which of the gathering/curative skills are available.

Achimrst

Melodie said:

Tecton said:

Alchemist can't take herbalism or concoctions, forestals can't take synthesis/transmutation, and the alch/forestal status of your city also affects which of the gathering/curative skills are available.

Eat them rocks traitor!

Think I'm nice meow!

Makarios

There isn't a complete mirror for all of the two handed abilities; in all specialisation cases the two weapons generally have a slightly different playstyle. If you want to go full warhammer, you should be able to make it work. You'll find though that for absolute maximum results you'll be best served with having some weapon diversity. This is most pronounced in the case of the two handed specialisation, since all of the others require two weapons (whereas two handed only technically requires one). That was intended to try to offset that disparity somewhat.

Kardal

Makarios said:

There isn't a complete mirror for all of the two handed abilities; in all specialisation cases the two weapons generally have a slightly different playstyle. If you want to go full warhammer, you should be able to make it work. You'll find though that for absolute maximum results you'll be best served with having some weapon diversity. This is most pronounced in the case of the two handed specialisation, since all of the others require two weapons (whereas two handed only technically requires one). That was intended to try to offset that disparity somewhat.

I'm somewhat disappointed with this. But I'm still grateful that I'll be able to use the weapon I wanted when I first started playing.

Amarillys

Tecton said:

Alchemist can't take herbalism or concoctions, forestals can't take synthesis/transmutation, and the alch/forestal status of your city also affects which of the gathering/curative skills are available.

Any chance cities (Cyrene) will get another stab at choosing?

Addama

Kardal said:

Makarios said:

There isn't a complete mirror for all of the two handed abilities; in all specialisation cases the two weapons generally have a slightly different playstyle. If you want to go full warhammer, you should be able to make it work. You'll find though that for absolute maximum results you'll be best served with having some weapon diversity. This is most pronounced in the case of the two handed specialisation, since all of the others require two weapons (whereas two handed only technically requires one). That was intended to try to offset that disparity somewhat.

I'm somewhat disappointed with this. But I'm still grateful that I'll be able to use the weapon I wanted when I first started playing.

The only thing I dislike about it is the weapon swapping spam, but Serpents (and Bards? idk I've never tried Bard) deal with the same thing.  Just know you'll have the flexibility of using both weapons, one that is better at breaks and the other that can apply venoms.

Everybody else has to suffer with one or the other.

Jules

Why are non-Eleusians so eager to be forestals?  Is there a huge shortage of alchemical cures due to so many people switching to them or something?  If so, I'd rather they fix THAT than be under Nature's thumb (which was the whole reason alchemists now exist is it not)?  I haven't been around.  What am I missing?

EDIT:  loud and clear with the grandfathered people wanting some sort of workaround, but what about people who feel as Melodie (Mhaldor) and Amarillys (Cyrene) do?

Lisbethae

Tecton said:

Alchemist can't take herbalism or concoctions, forestals can't take synthesis/transmutation, and the alch/forestal status of your city also affects which of the gathering/curative skills are available.

Um. Hi. @Tecton‌


What does this do to forestals in cities that were grandfathered in before?

*crossing my fingers*

[edit - I see that this question is being asked in varying forms by a couple other people. You can lump my answer in with theirs....]

Xith

Tecton said:

Antonius said:

Seftin said:

Thanks for answering the questions, was a bit wound up about it - I definitely agree that other classes have these buffs available so I guess I was a bit tunnel-visioned and didn't look at it from an outside perspective.

My question below:

What is going to happen with Handaxes for sentinels?

At current anything slower than a 242 is pretty much useless from a combat perspective for a large amount of their current tactics, will the new skillset offset this somehow?

Forged handaxes should end up with standard stats, just like all other weapons, and Sentinel will be balanced around whatever those stats end up being. Artefact handaxes will then have better stats than forged, so they'll always be a better option. No work has been done on Sentinel that I'm aware of, though.

@Kyrra: Tecton said the token you get in exchange for them would be able to be traded in, but I don't think a price has been given. Hopefully it will be the full 200 credits.

@Trey: If you're worried about getting a non-decay fullplate after the changes, just go ahead and customise one of your suits - since they'll all end up with the same stats it really doesn't matter what you end up with. You have about a week to write the description and get the whole process finished, that should probably be enough time.

@Tecton: Is Chivalry still going to have the bonuses to accuracy/damage/speed that it currently does, then? I know you said the Weaponry bonuses would be staying.

Will it be possible to do a 2:1 trade on artefact weaponry? I have two level two broadswords, would I be able to trade those for a single level three weapon? Not sure what I'll end up doing yet, but that may be something I want to consider. Also, what about refunds for customisations on artefact weapons? I know it's only 50 credits per, but that adds up when you have several of them.

Re: Chivalry, it currently does, because we haven't changed it yet - we'll probably move that bonus over to weaponmastery for the time being, since knights will now learn chivalry as their third skill. We are brainstorming on some changes to the weaponry skill in the nearish future, so how long the system, as it currently sits, remains to be seen. Re: Artefacts, we can discuss it further, sure - just drop me an email after everything is settled and I'll try to help you out! Re: Customisations, the automated system will give you a figurine to use to customise your weapon when you switch it out. (Family/holiday obligations this weekend have caused some delays in answering - will try to get everyone answered tonight!)

With the stat adjustments to to-hit, is Dex doing to become more Dexy and make people Dexually attracted to it? Or overall nerf? Or probably just monitoring that?
Or to rephrase, are the weapons being given sufficiently -low- to-hit.

Siduri

Tecton said:

Achimrst said:

@Tecton I HAVE A QUESTION!

Augmenting and Conjuration, will augmenting just be adding stats to armor/weapons or what all does it entail? (Sorry if already asked and I just didn't see) Also, Conjuration is sigils?

And finally, why didn't you just merge Concoctions and Transmutation into one curing skill? I mean if you are say a Shaman in Eleusis now and one day decide to become an alchemist and take Concoctions things won't they be useless to you or will you still be able to use them?

TY for answering have Christmas fun!

The actual Augmentation ability will be removed as part of the change. Augmentation is getting something cool to replace it though. The rest of the skill deals with enchantments to existing items.

Conjuration is sigils, baubles, gems of negation, dreamcatchers etc.

Alchemist can't take herbalism or concoctions, forestals can't take synthesis/transmutation, and the alch/forestal status of your city also affects which of the gathering/curative skills are available.

Wait here.

You are saying that those grandfathered forestals in the alchemist cities will be forced to -not- take any curative skills?
I mean, they can't take alchemical ones because they are forestals, and they can't take forestal ones because they are in an alchemist city?

EDIT: My suggestion is to give priority to class type over city requirements in case of such conflicts.

Jules

What Tecton is saying confuses me, actually, because I thought the whole point was to split trade skills from classes utterly - in which case grandfathered people wouldn't have a problem (other than perhaps not being able to select the trade they'd like, but they would be able to pick one).

Addama

I think (Tecton, correct me if I'm wrong) Tecton's not excluding the possibility of cities having both concoctions and alchemy.  Targossas and Cyrene, for example, would be prime candidates for having both.

Amarillys

Jules said:

Why are non-Eleusians so eager to be forestals?  Is there a huge shortage of alchemical cures due to so many people switching to them or something?  If so, I'd rather they fix THAT than be under Nature's thumb (which was the whole reason alchemists now exist is it not)?  I haven't been around.  What am I missing?

EDIT:  loud and clear with the grandfathered people wanting some sort of workaround, but what about people who feel as Melodie (Mhaldor) and Amarillys (Cyrene) do?

Honestly, I just like the Forestal classes but I've not been able to get any sort of RP going with any non-Lisbethae forestals. So I can just decide 'eh, we'll go see if I can fit in with Eleusis for access to one of their three great classes' or I can go with RP I'm actually enjoying but miss out on the classes that I might actually like to be. (Druid and Sylvan.) It's a personal thing and I'm not 100% serious about it because I know it's not likely going to happen, so I make jokes and dream of being a forestal, but I'd rather stick with a lackluster class and play with people who want me rather than try and shoehorn myself into a city that's shown no interest in my character (not blaming them, they have no reason to care about her) just to have some skills. Honestly, even if Cyrene switched to Forestals, I may not actually switch. So many options are out there it's hard to know which way I'll go and having something tie me to a city isn't what I'm ready to do just yet.

ETA: And by lackluster class, I just mean for me. Alchemist's super awesome, it just isn't my style. Nothing out there really is except maybe Sylvan or Druid. (Magi and Shaman are pretty close.) so I'm pretty much waiting till after the changes go live to pick a class, hoping, just hoping, something will be what I want.

Xith

Addama said:

I think (Tecton, correct me if I'm wrong) Tecton's not excluding the possibility of cities having both concoctions and alchemy.  Targossas and Cyrene, for example, would be prime candidates for having both.

They aren't really, for the reasons that they initially chose for, which is that forestals are factional for Eleusis and Nature needs to be somewhat separate as a neutral force that is not about Light or whatever Cyrene is.

That being said, Eleusis' and alchemists have to be opposed for reasons that aren't just about plants vs. laboratories. One is about nature and the other about corruption of nature (science).

Addama

Xith said:

Addama said:

I think (Tecton, correct me if I'm wrong) Tecton's not excluding the possibility of cities having both concoctions and alchemy.  Targossas and Cyrene, for example, would be prime candidates for having both.

They aren't really, for the reasons that they initially chose for, which is that forestals are factional for Eleusis and Nature needs to be somewhat separate as a neutral force that is not about Light or whatever Cyrene is.

That being said, Eleusis' and alchemists have to be opposed for reasons that aren't just about plants vs. laboratories. One is about nature and the other about corruption of nature (science).

Eleusis is one thing, of course they'd only support Concoctions.  And obviously Mhaldor/Ashtan/Hashan wouldn't support Concoctions.  But we're talking about the cities that have both Alchemists and Forestals in them.  Will they be forced into having neither Concoctions nor Transmutations, due to the class/city restriction overlaps?

Jules

Interesting.  Allowing some cities to produce both sets of curatives, when others can only produce one just sounds bad though.  It will make people angry (understandably).  

Amarillys

Jules said:

Interesting.  Allowing some cities to produce both sets of curatives, when others can only produce one just sounds bad though.  It will make people angry (understandably).  

Why? They basically (entirely) do the exact same thing?

Jules

It gives you more capacity and flexibility if/when shortages occur is the first one that comes to mind.  

Addama

Jules said:

Interesting.  Allowing some cities to produce both sets of curatives, when others can only produce one just sounds bad though.  It will make people angry (understandably).  

Why would Mhaldor, Ashtan or Hashan be mad if they already have no Concoctionists?

Why would Eleusis be mad if they already have no Alchemists?

What would really piss people off is having neither option.

Jules

If it was just Cyrene, maybe no one would care.  Maybe  But basically, it would mean that while those cities were locked into a single option - for a category of essential items that are notoriously scarce at times, a potential enemy would have the ability to minimize their scarcity because they could produce either sort of curative. 

EDIT:  (and for now, in Cyrene, for example you CAN buy as much as you want of either sort)

Kyrra

I hate grandfathering and if there's an opportunity for a clean slate, take it. If you want forestal stuff, don't be in a city that said no to forestals. I still think remaining forestals ought to be kicked out of cities and Targossas was a brand new city that decided to take both which screams unfair to the five cities which had to pick one or the other but not both.

Everyone should just make one decision so it's fair for everyone else.

Addama

I think the better question is how one addresses Alchemical scarcity when you can't exterminate underground rooms.

I mean yeah, it would be cool if a balanced large-scale conflict involved defense and destruction of needed resources, but that conflict would have to be balanced first.  And right now it's definitely not.

Jules

I can only guess they allowed Targossas to do that (have forestals and alchemists) to build their numbers.  That's the only thing that makes that make any sense at all to me.  Still, what a headache that seems to create down the road.  

Shirszae

I don't really see any headache except for the one person that constantly complains about it. Its not like Targossas is the only city that has forestals and alchemists in them.

Jules

But are those cities able to accept new members of both classes?