The only thing that I'm really curious to know is that, if I don't want to pick up tailoring and jewellery crafting again, would it be possible for those licences to be refunded for the 200cr that I paid for them? Like be able to trade in the tokens/permits that we receive back. They aren't really skills that I used a whole lot in comparison to some people and I'd prefer to put those credits toward something else that would benefit the skills that I do want to get.
I would like to second this question.
I am retired and log into the forums maybe once every 2 months. It was a good 20 years, live your best lives, friends.
Here's a thought on Sylvans... give us plant control. As viridians we are essentially half plant anyways. Kinda like the little pets that the Sentinels have, only like... a lycopod that we can throw a seed down and make it grow and attack our enemies. I personally believe that would be pretty neat, and would follow RP fairly well, as Sylvans have a unique understanding of Nature... being an intimate part of it already. You could also have certain plants for certain Sylvans in different cities, but that would be allowing Sylvans into other cities *hint hint*, but that could be a different scenario entirely. It's a viable option, and I have idea'd it. Also thought of a perfume making trade skill. That would be fairly neat, and would help with the economy, as people could pay credits for 'personalized' scents. Hey, just spit-balling ideas out there so people don't think all I know how to do is whine and rant.
To comment on forging (as that was the part of this I designed):
The thrust of the design is indeed to make forged weapons/armor more or less the same in terms of performance. There is a TINY bit of room for forgers to add literally only 1-3 extra points to the weapon stats, but doing so requires significant specialization in particular adjectives for weapons/armor.
The way the adjectives work is that they are grouped in tiers, with more and more 'impressive' adjectives being available in the higher tiers. Getting to those higher tiers does, however, require a lot of repetitive forging and is more or less a gold sink/tax. Beyond that, you can specialize in particular adjectives (the game will keep track of how many times you've forged a weapon/armor with each available adjective) and then actually produce slightly better weapons/armor as mentioned above. Very very slightly.
Beyond that, the way tiers work is that an adjective in a higher tier will cost you more comms to forge than one in a lower tier, and what extra comms they cost are a function of that particular adjective (they're hand-set for each adjective). The curve isn't linear, so while the lower tiers are relatively inexpensive, the upper tiers are very expensive.
A simple, dull longsword will be no more expensive to forge than now, for instance, whereas a nightmarish, skull-festooned set of full plate will be very expensive. I forget the math right now, but something around 50-100k in terms of comm costs. There's a good chance I've made the curves too steep (meaning the higher tier adjectives are too expensive) but I'd rather flatten the curve later than the opposite.
So the result of this is that someone walking around with really expensive-looking armor and swords has actually spent a lot of money on them. It's largely cosmetic (completely so except for the 1-3 extra weapon stat points actually) but that's the idea. If you want to walk in wielding radiant, diamond-edged broadswords, it's gonna be pricey, because it'll cost the forger a lot of comms to make them.
There are a couple other bits and bobs to the system, but that's the main stuff.
Yeah not gonna lie, if harvesting stuff isn't an option in Mhaldor, then forging I think is where I'm gonna go. Time to figure out how to work that into general roleplay...
And I love too Be still, my indelible friend That love soon might end You are unbreaking And be known in its aching Though quaking Shown in this shaking Though crazy Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
If I'm understanding this right, the combination of the differences being almost exclusively cosmetic, along with needing to find a craftsman who specalizes in THAT specific weapon or armor neatly preserves the economic viability of both shop sales and individual commissions - even more so than the high comm prices (which also help and yes, may be a bit high but as you said, we'll see). This sounds amazing. It's always hard to hedge against "I'm a nice guy, I'll just make this for you", but this system does absolutely everything possible to minimize that and should help create a vibrant economy with plentiful goods, and some income for those people who want it. I am excite.
So will the adjectives have particular stats associated with them, or will the additional stats be set by the forger? Or perhaps random? The option to add 3 speed to things suddenly makes forged scimitars a moderately attractive option and whatnot, so I'm curious about this.
And it's not clear if 3 extra speed under the current weaponry mechanics will be the same as 3 extra speed under the new weaponry mechanics. So a 218 scimitar vs. a 215 scimitar might actually get a significant speed boost (maybe -.1 or .2 seconds) whereas now it's much smaller.
Regardless, unlike the current mechanics, it sounds like not having top-speed weapons won't be a dealbreaker in combat.
Not to be all, I believe the term is Me, me, me... but what about Sylvans? Everything forestal related seems a little glossed over to me. Without being too much of a bother (My rant is out of my system... but I still mean every word) can someone tell me what's going to happen with the Sylvans?
You're losing (kind of) Concoctions and gaining a combat-relevant third skillset eventually. Not this week, probably not even this month. So you don't need to get too worried about it yet.
I'm pretty confident that the administration will give us something fun to play with in place of concoctions--they're usually pretty good at making their new toys really cool (just look at the Shaman changes). The two things that I'm hoping for is that the new skill gives us something in the way of defense to make up for the loss of the sip bonus (since the tankiness has always been a draw for me), and that the skillset is something unique from other concoctionists to give more uniqueness to the various forestal classes.
Based on the Shaman skill and anything else I may or may not have seen, everyone will get something fairly awesome. Tecton hinted (http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/1934/forestal-skillsets/p1) that the 3rd skill would be shared but with variations for each class?
Either way, it's going to be legen - wait for it...
Shaman OP, ask anyone. Everyone is going to be OP now.
@tecton@sarapis regarding forging, I don't think anyone has asked it since the hammer was brought up, but one of you stated that forging hammers will no longer affect forging speed. Does this mean forging in general will be faster and less of a time-sink(I mean, it's like... 7-8 minutes just to forge a fullplate right now... maybe not, it feels like it), or is forging going to take just as long as it does currently?
If forging is going to be faster in general, can you give us an idea on how much faster? 25%, 50%? 103%? I'm trying to sell myself on re-gaining my forging, but I'm still not sure
When Canada rules the world, things will be... nii~ice.
I'm not sure if it'd be better to keep the full details as a fun surprise or not, so I'll be vague; the forging process will be much less time-consuming moving forward, which is why the hammer is being phased out.
Forging a single item isn't even remotely close to time consuming as it is, not sure it needs to be made any faster than that. 7 to 8 minutes for a fullplate is basically nothing when you're guaranteed to get the best you can.
So the result of this is that someone walking around with really expensive-looking armor and swords has actually spent a lot of money on them. It's largely cosmetic (completely so except for the 1-3 extra weapon stat points actually) but that's the idea. If you want to walk in wielding radiant, diamond-edged broadswords, it's gonna be pricey, because it'll cost the forger a lot of comms to make them.
OH OH! Can we finally make chainmail bikinis for the women now?! ... C'mon guys, it's a classic RPG staple, the more skin shown, the higher the defensive value! XD
When Canada rules the world, things will be... nii~ice.
I told a friend about the proposed changes and the potential to get back less than I have spent. He said it sounded like Democrats were running it.
You're getting back exactly what you spent: lessons... no more, no less. Just because you aren't getting a cheaper version than everyone who isn't omnitrans already, doesn't mean you're getting screwed over, and I seriously doubt this is the place for political crap, regardless of intentions.
Not directed at you: All the whining in this thread is ridiculous. At least wait until it goes live to bitch. They could completely change, and seem willing to. Offer suggestions or stfu.
I'm not sure if it'd be better to keep the full details as a fun surprise or not, so I'll be vague; the forging process will be much less time-consuming moving forward, which is why the hammer is being phased out.
What about the time consuming process of mineral making (Primes>refine to metal> trans to mineral)? If everyone can do concoctions (gather herb>sell herb), is there going to be a change to lab work times, or a scarcity of primes to be more in line with the forestal side of the coin?
@Tecton: How exactly is gaining weapon proficiencies going to work...
About re-gaining weaponry proficiencies....
Some proficiencies were learned a long, long time ago. Now people are enemied to the cities where these teachers reside. I'm thinking specifically of these two:
Straight, edged swords - Swordmaster Colbey, of Delos
Rapier and scimitar - King Tu'eras, of the Tsol'aa
Polearms - Captain Korlosh, of Delos
Maces, flails, etc - Lieutenant Serentesh, of Delos
Battleaxes, Handaxes - Shale Ironrock, of Delos
Spear, Javelin - Etarni the Hunter, of Tomacula
Warhammer - Geld, of Hashan
Dagger, Dirk - A shady-looking man in Hashan
Quarterstaff - Seasone
Lance - Lady Lhadia, of Matsuhama's temple
Trident, Whip - Clynalia, of Delos
Might this change mean that, at long last, all the proficiency teachers will now not be located inside a main city, so people can learn/re-learn with ease if they choose to do so?
@Tecton: How exactly is gaining weapon proficiencies going to work...
About re-gaining weaponry proficiencies....
Some proficiencies were learned a long, long time ago. Now people are enemied to the cities where these teachers reside. I'm thinking specifically of these two:
Straight, edged swords - Swordmaster Colbey, of Delos
Rapier and scimitar - King Tu'eras, of the Tsol'aa
Polearms - Captain Korlosh, of Delos
Maces, flails, etc - Lieutenant Serentesh, of Delos
Battleaxes, Handaxes - Shale Ironrock, of Delos
Spear, Javelin - Etarni the Hunter, of Tomacula
Warhammer - Geld, of Hashan
Dagger, Dirk - A shady-looking man in Hashan
Quarterstaff - Seasone
Lance - Lady Lhadia, of Matsuhama's temple
Trident, Whip - Clynalia, of Delos
Might this change mean that, at long last, all the proficiency teachers are located outside of a main city so people can learn/re-learn with ease if they choose to do so?
Just yell that you are in your cave, and then run right in and get proficient, Bluef. You know the Hashani Shake.
So will the adjectives have particular stats associated with them, or will the additional stats be set by the forger? Or perhaps random? The option to add 3 speed to things suddenly makes forged scimitars a moderately attractive option and whatnot, so I'm curious about this.
Random, and the three points will never all end up on the same stat. 2 at most can be on the same stat.
I also forgot to mention a key point to the inter-player economy re: new forging, which is that at a certain point in the specialization process (which amounts to forging X value worth of stuff using that adjective), items with an adjective you've started to become an expert in will sometimes be treated as if it's one or even two sizes smaller than it is. Size is a value we manually assign to all types of weapons and armor (all rapiers have the same size, all chainmail has the same size, etc), whose purpose is simply to act as a multiplier. Forging an enormous, gleaming warhammer should be (and is) much pricier than forging an enormous, gleaming dirk.
So if a longsword at size 6 is forged with two adjectives that you're expert in, you might get it as if it was size 4 rather than size 6, which means that it cost you 2/3rds of what it would cost someone who has no expertise in adjective. It's only after you max out this 'cheaper' benefit that you start getting a chance for extra points for the weapon based on the adjective. Once you max out that, you're a 'Master' at that adjective, and have a 50% chance per adjective of getting an extra point (and if you get 2 points, you have a chance of a third).
Every adjective you are at 'Master' in is worth cumulative points (the higher the tier of adjective the more points) towards becoming a Grandmaster Blacksmith, and then a Legendary Blacksmith after that. Once you have enough points for Grandmaster Blacksmith your cumulative chance of getting status bonuses on a weapon/armor with adjectives you are at Master in increase by 33%. Once you read Legendary Blacksmith, you get that chance of extra stats on all adjectives, whether you are Master in them or not. (The reduced costs are still reserved for ones you have specifically mastered, however.)
@Tecton: How exactly is gaining weapon proficiencies going to work...
About re-gaining weaponry proficiencies....
Some proficiencies were learned a long, long time ago. Now people are enemied to the cities where these teachers reside. I'm thinking specifically of these two:
Straight, edged swords - Swordmaster Colbey, of Delos
Rapier and scimitar - King Tu'eras, of the Tsol'aa
Polearms - Captain Korlosh, of Delos
Maces, flails, etc - Lieutenant Serentesh, of Delos
Battleaxes, Handaxes - Shale Ironrock, of Delos
Spear, Javelin - Etarni the Hunter, of Tomacula
Warhammer - Geld, of Hashan
Dagger, Dirk - A shady-looking man in Hashan
Quarterstaff - Seasone
Lance - Lady Lhadia, of Matsuhama's temple
Trident, Whip - Clynalia, of Delos
Might this change mean that, at long last, all the proficiency teachers will now not be located inside a main city, so people can learn/re-learn with ease if they choose to do so?
Speaking as Hashani leadership, It'll be a pain in the ass to keep the hammer proficiency in Hashan. Should move it to Tasur'ke or Thera or something.
@tecton@sarapis regarding forging, I don't think anyone has asked it since the hammer was brought up, but one of you stated that forging hammers will no longer affect forging speed. Does this mean forging in general will be faster and less of a time-sink(I mean, it's like... 7-8 minutes just to forge a fullplate right now... maybe not, it feels like it), or is forging going to take just as long as it does currently?
If forging is going to be faster in general, can you give us an idea on how much faster? 25%, 50%? 103%? I'm trying to sell myself on re-gaining my forging, but I'm still not sure
Less than a minute. We are as yet undecided what we'll do with the Hammer. Phasing it out is the most likely thing to happen, but we may come up with a better solution. One idea that we've already rejected is letting it make forging cheaper. I don't want to do that though because it just gives a massive, insurmountable economic advantage to forgers with the Hammer.
Will there be city/house/order/whatever-exclusive adjectives?
The system supports them, though when the system goes live the only org-restricted adjectives are Ashtani, Targossian, Cyrenian, Hashani, Mhaldorian, and Eleusian. It's pretty hard in general to come up with good adjectives for all the Houses, Orders, etc though. I wouldn't want to restrict general adjectives to any particular group, but I think House names could maybe work, though the nature of them would put them at pretty high Tiers. There's also some awkward potential as some of the House names work a lot better than others:
a scorched Insidium longsword a platinum-tipped Dawnblade whip a lovely Merchant chainmail
I think we'll try to make House ones work.
Orders I'm more leery on though. I don't really come up with a naming scheme that doesn't look terrible to me.
a bronzed Valnuranian longsword a bronzed Dream longsword a shabby Lorielani longsword a saw-edged Prosperian battleaxe
Ugh, amiright?
In the "would be cool someday" category I also have regional adjectives that you'd have to quest to earn. Village factional system to be able to forge in the Istarian or Moghedian styles, etc.
Comments
The thrust of the design is indeed to make forged weapons/armor more or less the same in terms of performance. There is a TINY bit of room for forgers to add literally only 1-3 extra points to the weapon stats, but doing so requires significant specialization in particular adjectives for weapons/armor.
The way the adjectives work is that they are grouped in tiers, with more and more 'impressive' adjectives being available in the higher tiers. Getting to those higher tiers does, however, require a lot of repetitive forging and is more or less a gold sink/tax. Beyond that, you can specialize in particular adjectives (the game will keep track of how many times you've forged a weapon/armor with each available adjective) and then actually produce slightly better weapons/armor as mentioned above. Very very slightly.
Beyond that, the way tiers work is that an adjective in a higher tier will cost you more comms to forge than one in a lower tier, and what extra comms they cost are a function of that particular adjective (they're hand-set for each adjective). The curve isn't linear, so while the lower tiers are relatively inexpensive, the upper tiers are very expensive.
A simple, dull longsword will be no more expensive to forge than now, for instance, whereas a nightmarish, skull-festooned set of full plate will be very expensive. I forget the math right now, but something around 50-100k in terms of comm costs. There's a good chance I've made the curves too steep (meaning the higher tier adjectives are too expensive) but I'd rather flatten the curve later than the opposite.
So the result of this is that someone walking around with really expensive-looking armor and swords has actually spent a lot of money on them. It's largely cosmetic (completely so except for the 1-3 extra weapon stat points actually) but that's the idea. If you want to walk in wielding radiant, diamond-edged broadswords, it's gonna be pricey, because it'll cost the forger a lot of comms to make them.
There are a couple other bits and bobs to the system, but that's the main stuff.
That love soon might end You are unbreaking
And be known in its aching Though quaking
Shown in this shaking Though crazy
Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
Regardless, unlike the current mechanics, it sounds like not having top-speed weapons won't be a dealbreaker in combat.
(This non sequitur brought to you by Terrana and her pet lycopod, so throw the blame where it belongs.)
If forging is going to be faster in general, can you give us an idea on how much faster? 25%, 50%? 103%? I'm trying to sell myself on re-gaining my forging, but I'm still not sure
When Canada rules the world,
things will be... nii~ice.
How will the forging/weapon rework affect blackjacks? They're already standardized. (And non-forgeable, so we don't get cool adjectives. )
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
When Canada rules the world,
things will be... nii~ice.
Not directed at you: All the whining in this thread is ridiculous. At least wait until it goes live to bitch. They could completely change, and seem willing to. Offer suggestions or stfu.
Some proficiencies were learned a long, long time ago. Now people are enemied to the cities where these teachers reside. I'm thinking specifically of these two:
Might this change mean that, at long last, all the proficiency teachers will now not be located inside a main city, so people can learn/re-learn with ease if they choose to do so?
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea
"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else."
-Albert Einstein
So if a longsword at size 6 is forged with two adjectives that you're expert in, you might get it as if it was size 4 rather than size 6, which means that it cost you 2/3rds of what it would cost someone who has no expertise in adjective. It's only after you max out this 'cheaper' benefit that you start getting a chance for extra points for the weapon based on the adjective. Once you max out that, you're a 'Master' at that adjective, and have a 50% chance per adjective of getting an extra point (and if you get 2 points, you have a chance of a third).
Every adjective you are at 'Master' in is worth cumulative points (the higher the tier of adjective the more points) towards becoming a Grandmaster Blacksmith, and then a Legendary Blacksmith after that. Once you have enough points for Grandmaster Blacksmith your cumulative chance of getting status bonuses on a weapon/armor with adjectives you are at Master in increase by 33%. Once you read Legendary Blacksmith, you get that chance of extra stats on all adjectives, whether you are Master in them or not. (The reduced costs are still reserved for ones you have specifically mastered, however.)
Speaking as Hashani leadership, It'll be a pain in the ass to keep the hammer proficiency in Hashan. Should move it to Tasur'ke or Thera or something.
twitter - @spacemanreno
Less than a minute. We are as yet undecided what we'll do with the Hammer. Phasing it out is the most likely thing to happen, but we may come up with a better solution. One idea that we've already rejected is letting it make forging cheaper. I don't want to do that though because it just gives a massive, insurmountable economic advantage to forgers with the Hammer.
a scorched Insidium longsword
a platinum-tipped Dawnblade whip
a lovely Merchant chainmail
I think we'll try to make House ones work.
Orders I'm more leery on though. I don't really come up with a naming scheme that doesn't look terrible to me.
a bronzed Valnuranian longsword
a bronzed Dream longsword
a shabby Lorielani longsword
a saw-edged Prosperian battleaxe
Ugh, amiright?
In the "would be cool someday" category I also have regional adjectives that you'd have to quest to earn. Village factional system to be able to forge in the Istarian or Moghedian styles, etc.