What Happened To You Today?

Torrent

Morthif said:

Asmodron said:

Runewarden, Infernal and Paladin should definitely be united into a single Knight class where the individual can select the focus of their third skill.

Priest and Apostate is a bit more tricky, however they are based on the idea of a 'priesthood' and share a similar concept. Not sure how that one could work though.

Separate Sentinel from Nature and leave Eleusis with Sylvan and druid.

Make Knight class with Runewarden as default or even better a more generic skillset. Make Infernal and Paladin options like Shikudo monk model (requires you to learn the extra skillset)

Add a Darkness and Chaos skillset like Devotion/Necromancy.

Make Priest, Occultist, and Apostate just hard locked to their factions with same or stricter limitations on them now.

This gives every faction 2 classes and allows for more faction control over faction stuff with less risk involved to get cut off 

The problem is you are not taking into account Alchemist. Currently every other city aside from Eleusis can access Alchemist. So technically some cities like Mhaldor and Targossas have three classes.

Some factional classes would be a nightmare to give different paths, druid, sylvan, priest, apostate, and occultist. Which would have to rework all three base skills.

I do believe that it could be done that Infernal, Paladin, and Runewardm could be combined into one class Knight. With base skills weaponmastery and chivalry, with thre option to select necromancy, devotion, or runelore as the 3rd skill.

Torrent

Btw whoever is answering the classleads is hilarious!!! Some of the most entertaining stuff I read in a while!!!

Asmodron

I dont think placing further restrictions, factions or skillsets is the answer.

As for Sentinel, it technically was created based on the idea of -not- being hard linked to nature...but dont want to bring up that old argument.

Morthif

no one wants Alchemist, Sentinel or bust

Sophi

I will trade alchemist to Hashan for Sentinel from Eleusis

Cooper

Asmodron said:

I dont think placing further restrictions, factions or skillsets is the answer.

As for Sentinel, it technically was created based on the idea of -not- being hard linked to nature...but dont want to bring up that old argument.

I helped found the Sentinels on my first character. This is not true. 

Asmodron

Cooper said:

Asmodron said:

I dont think placing further restrictions, factions or skillsets is the answer.

As for Sentinel, it technically was created based on the idea of -not- being hard linked to nature...but dont want to bring up that old argument.

I helped found the Sentinels on my first character. This is not true. 

The major event of identity creation for the sentinels was them blowing up all their groves to assist their tutor, which resulted in them being rejected by nature and the use of groves, which led to the creation of woodlore that was taught to their tutor by the hunter in Tomacula. This made Sentinels unique to Druids in that they were no longer tied directly to forests themselves.

Thus...yes, the idea of the sentinel class early on was indeed not being hard linked to nature.

Cooper

Except that when Sentinels were created they had groves, and were linked to nature. It was a copy of the druid class.

You said when Sentinels were created, not what they became. Sentinels were still tied to nature even after woodlore though. 

Druids were pretty much pacifists. Sentinels were created to be the fighting force/aggressive ones.

Proficy

Cooper said:

Except that when Sentinels were created they had groves, and were linked to nature. It was a copy of the druid class.

You said when Sentinels were created, not what they became. Sentinels were still tied to nature even after woodlore though. 

Druids were pretty much pacifists. Sentinels were created to be the fighting force/aggressive ones.

They forget how long we have actually been around

Asmodron

Cooper said:

Except that when Sentinels were created they had groves, and were linked to nature. It was a copy of the druid class.

You said when Sentinels were created, not what they became. Sentinels were still tied to nature even after woodlore though. 

Druids were pretty much pacifists. Sentinels were created to be the fighting force/aggressive ones.

🙄

I said it technically was created when speaking of the Sentinel class. When the class system was introduced sentinel came with woodlore, based on the the idea of the event I mentioned. A player sentinel can choose to fight for Nature or what not and the house did (at times) as well but the theme and concept of the class was distinctly about -not- being hard linked to nature as druids and sylvans were. In fact, Sentinels have longer been severed to nature than they ever were linked.

Proficy

They were intended to be able to defend nature, outside of nature... a class was needed then to be able to be used away from a single room "grove".

So when you you say not linked to nature it's easy to argue it is.....its not restricted to nature.

Minifie

Asmodron

Proficy said:

They were intended to be able to defend nature, outside of nature... a class was needed then to be able to be used away from a single room "grove".

So when you you say not linked to nature it's easy to argue it is.....its not restricted to nature.

Mechanics and reasoning has very little to do with it. The class itself is based on the guild being rejected by the forests. A sentinel can use their skills to defend or fight for nature like most any other class could, but their very concept is -NOT- hard linked into the forests themselves. This was showcased in a major event which is specifically why sentinels have woodlore as per the lore. This is a pretty simple explanation.

Cooper

Moving goalposts to try and win arguments is fun!

The sentinel class was a copy of the Druid class. If you were in the sentinel guild it was 100% the same. That means they were linked to nature on creation, and did not have woodlore.

Sentinels weren't created when woodlore was introduced, they were around long before that. 

Torinn

Why are we talking about they were originally?  I feel like we should be talking about them as they currently are.  Do they, now, have a direct connection to nature?

Minifie

Literally the first paragraph. Sentinels are a nature class. Anything saying otherwise is just folly. 

Rangor

Sentinels is a woodlands class that create traps and have a bond to animals. The guild has been located within a city in the past (before eleusis was founded), back around the times it also made sense for Gaia to patron the Paladins. For my 400ish years in the guild, and then house, it has been the forestal class that was designed and rp'd to  take the fight outside the forests.

I totally understand why you would want to have access to the class. It's a fun class. I am sure if if  stretch your imagination far enough, you will convince yourself it makes sense in todays world.

Rangor

Minifie said:

Literally the first paragraph. Sentinels are a nature class. Anything saying otherwise is just folly. 

That paragraph is totally a relic from when the sentinel guild had members in the various cities. They were basically agents in those cities, that were meant to influence their policies and attitudes to be in natures favor.

Waayen

You guys really should make a separate thread for this kind of discussion.

Xallax

Waayen said:

You guys really should make a separate thread for this kind of discussion.

I agree in all honesty.

Asmodron

Cooper said:

The sentinel class was a copy of the Druid class.

That is exactly the point. They were...and then...

Oswald, Kolieer, Ishiva, and Aslan all destroyed their Groves with the skill, as the other Sentinels fed their energy to them. After the deed was done, the entire Guild found their physical bonds to the forest severed, their skill of Groves gone.

Thus..my original point per the lore stands. Sentinel was then based on the idea of not being hard-linked to nature which is what the class was introduced as. As much as you want to try and squirm on this one by attempting to use semantics to try and justify a win, the lore has stated it quite clearly.

[Deleted User]

What do you define as "hard-linked" to Nature? Because the 'physical bonds' mentioned just means they lost their ability to have Groves. That's literally what that entire sentence says that you quoted. They didn't suddenly become not-Nature; Titania knew they would have to give up Groves to save Vixen, and guided them through it. They still very much had their connection to Nature. Woodlore still had the ability to detect damage being done to Nature, the same as Groves, just not the ability to heal it.

If they weren't linked to Nature, they'd still be able to summon woodlore ents when they're forest enemied. And, I mean, if they weren't linked to Nature then they wouldn't be a Nature-aligned class as they are now. You can't really tell people not to use semantics when you keep trying to, difference is your attempts are from a misinterpretation of how the lore is worded and you're trying to argue with people who were literally there for the event.

Tahquil

I am also confused. I had assumed that the bond you had with animals from woodlore and metamorphosis was a link to nature. I had assumed animals were a legit part of the nature faction vibe since that' what nature used to protect itself against people who were oakstone enemied.

Asmodron

Pyori said:

What do you define as "hard-linked" to Nature? Because the 'physical bonds' mentioned just means they lost their ability to have Groves. That's literally what that entire sentence says that you quoted. They didn't suddenly become not-Nature; Titania knew they would have to give up Groves to save Vixen, and guided them through it. They still very much had their connection to Nature. Woodlore still had the ability to detect damage being done to Nature, the same as Groves, just not the ability to heal it.

If they weren't linked to Nature, they'd still be able to summon woodlore ents when they're forest enemied. And, I mean, if they weren't linked to Nature then they wouldn't be a Nature-aligned class as they are now. You can't really tell people not to use semantics when you keep trying to, difference is your attempts are from a misinterpretation of how the lore is worded and you're trying to argue with people who were literally there for the event.

I suppose I'll wrap up this point in one large post as to not keep spamming.

The basis of Sentinel (the class since some have had difficulty with this) in relation to that event was that they were not bound to the forests anymore and rejected by it. My original point was reflecting why the idea of the sentinel class being hard tied to the nature faction (in relation to alchemy vs natural) did not make much sense because of that event. The guild was even at one point part of a city which reflects the distance.

This goes into the original idea of the forestal class which as Cooper said was that they were linked and bound to the forests (and originally they were all what we later knew as just the 'Druid' class). The sentinel class became the exception. More on this below

We see elements of this even till now such as with Sparrow's Rest. The community there was by the lore created by those forestals that rejected the idea of the Sentinels being accepted in eleusis because of what they had done and now those forestals live in their own community bound (a bit too deeply) to the forests. The nature community isn't a single whole hive mind mentality but actually has different opinions on nature and this event reflected it.

Utilizing animals doesnt define being bound to nature...else the lot of us with mounts are. Metamorphosis is interesting but we have seen in history that spirits are quite an interesting concept that anyone with skill can call upon...also forest enemies are still able to do so.

This is all mute of course as sentinel in modern day was transformed to be further bound now. A sentinel can't be in a city that accepts alchemists and skirmishing was created with a theme of being "anti-civilization" which are changes that did not seem to make much since in relation to the class's history.

Additionally the original idea of alchemists vs forestals was the idea of alchemists using alchemy/transmutations and the 3 forestals classes utilizing concoctions. This was dissolved and the skills became universal and so the distinction is now focused on alchemists energies being opposing and hostile to nature's energies which is focused through those directly linked to the forests being in this case druids and sylvans now.

[Deleted User]

You're missing an important part that there's a lot more to Nature than just forests. You could make an argument that they're not forest-bound (which would be sketchy at best), but saying they're not hard-linked to Nature is just flat out wrong.

Their purpose for being allowed in cities eons ago has already been touched on by Cooper/Rangor, it had never been that they weren't defenders of Nature/not linked to Nature. Yeah Sparrow's Rest denizens still haven't gotten over the 'damage' they did to Nature, helping to heal Vixen. But it was through Titania's guidance they did that, and she's much more attuned to Nature than Sparrow's Rest is.

You're right in that utilising animals doesn't mean they're bound to Nature. However it's their link to Nature that allows them to summon those specific animals at will. I mean Nativity (what lets them summon them) is a literal bond to Nature, that allows them to be called anywhere rather than needing to be in a forest to call them.

Sentinels have never been rejected by Nature. Certain denizens that protect it, maybe, but never Nature itself. They have always, and likely always will be, linked directly to it.

Sophi

If I just agree with asmo can I be sentinel

Lenn

Serpents can summon animals too.

Check mate, alchemists.

Cooper

Asmodron you are not understanding.

The Sentinels were a guild.

Sentinel was also a class, which was an exact copy of druid named Sentinel.

Here is an exact quote of your original point:

As for Sentinel, it technically was created based on the idea of -not- being hard linked to nature...but dont want to bring up that old argument.

This is 100% wrong. Sentinels - neither the guild or the class - were NOT created based on the idea of not being hard linked to nature. I was literally there.

Please just admit you made a mistake and move on. 

Accipiter

Picking one event and ignoring the rest of history seems like a bad way of making an argument to me and this isn't the place to argue it anyway.

Ismay

I sat around, waiting for a raid. Enchanted a bit, did some extracting. This is what happened to me today.