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Comments
There's been no widespread announcement of city order or which is next, I'm sure it will be determined at tonight's 'choosing', see you guys there!
Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."
Mhaldor, Eleusis, Hashan, Ashtan is the current plan!
omg so far awayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
I'm excited ((evil excitement)) for Mhaldor's changes. Let's go!!
@Tecton, as something I have a vested interest in, would it be wise to start moving any property out of the non-decay rooms in the Househalls, or will we have opportunities to get it after the fact?
Maybe I'm confused, I thought it was alphabetical?
You might as well move Ashtan up and get the biggest, hardest one done first
Son of Veldrin,
Greetings forum goer! I have reviewed your most recent post and have found it contains too much passive and not enough aggressive. For clarity sake we ask that each passive aggressive post contains at least 1 part passive and 2 parts aggressive. As this post does not meet this standards the community will not understand what veiled jab you are trying to take.
Please resubmit your joke at your earliest convenience with your revisions. If you need any assistance with this process please refer to the Team Blue (TM) forum gank squad; Achilles, Daeir or Silas.
Thank you for your cooperation,
A-Team forum spokesperson
@Triak how's this?
(This isn't how it was done, I just wanted an excuse to finally use that gif)
@Ourania I heard you like gifs.
You talk about your RP not controlling you. You are correct, because at this point you are not RPing, you are metagaming. It's metagaming, because you are going against your character to justify making your IC viewpoint correspond with your OOC viewpoint. Someone can agree with the house renaissance OOC because they see it as a way too improve the game and give players a better experience, while reviling the entire concept IC. This dichotomy is part of what makes RP a fun and rewarding experience. Suggesting people take their character off for a little mountaintop meditation so they can go *ping! my attitude is now adjusted to where I see this as the best thing since sliced bread, is a disservice to them, to the houses involved, and the game as a whole. Your suggestion is nothing more than a justification for ignoring the enormous effect that the House Renaissance is going to have on characters and history throughout the game.
My best friend plays a Serpentlord. His character's identity is bound up in his house. His house is the framework around which that character is built. He has been playing this game for a very long time. Long enough, that he remembers when the Sect of the Black Lotus attacked their house icon and killed it. At the time the Cult of the Serpentlords only had ~3 people online, and they had to listen to their icon screaming as around 25 monks killed it. Now, you would have him put aside his enmity of the Black Lotus and join with them when the houses are merged. Centuries of history and enmity wiped away as if it had never happened, all so that he can call the murderers of his house icon brother and sister?
If I was a Serpentlord who had lived through that time, and was still a citizen of Hashan, on the day my house was dissolved, I would turn my back on Hashan, spit on all their works, and declare myself their enemy until the stars burn out in the sky. This would be regardless of my OOC feelings about the renaissance, because that is roleplaying.
One final note: The "good of the game" is a terrible reason to go along with a change. If my runewarden has to give up being a knight, I will find a different class. I will not suck it up and "go along with it" but neither will I sit here and whine about it. In the end, my RP is informed by my class, my house, and ultimately my order, but it is dependent only on my character's personality and identity. That is what controls RP.
God, yes. You people have got to let some shit go. This game has changed a ton over the years that shit that flew back then does not fly now. I mean hell, the Serpentlords bought the Black Lotus their most recent Icon, you'd think we would have worked past this shit by now.
I can't say that I recall at all the Black Lotus destroying our Icon. I don't think I recall our Icon having been destroyed at all so far (I do remember many many attempts at it, though), although I may have missed it in my on-and-off dormancy.
Being a Serpentlord through the time when we were at hardships with the Black Lotus, and IIRC being the Hierarch during some of it, some Serpentlords saw the hostilities as wasted effort and wanted to move past it.
It's good to see that we actually have moved past it (as alluded to by @Jacen).
Personally, from an IC perspective, Seldin will undoubtedly be hurt by the potential dissolving of his House, the House he's been a part of for almost his entire life. The House he's put a huge amount of effort into, and gone through a lot of pain so that he could do what he thought was best for the House. Even lead it for more than a decade, only to get stabbed in the back. But he also does recognise that a change is necessary, and has thought so for quite some time now. Just hasn't had any idea on how to go about that. If the advancement of his House's ideals means moving on to a different House and allowing in people who aren't serpents, then sure.
Not all cities will be going the "clean slate" route, so may, because it means that there's a clean break and a fresh start - other cities may have houses that don't change much, or perhaps one house is absorbed into another.
That's one of the key goals of the change, yes - houses are about ideals, rather than classes. My comment wasn't necessarily a direct reply to your post, just quelling some fears that people have been worrying about!
1. Yes, some people won't like the concept, but I'm sure a lot of other people will. In another thread, in another section, the idea of Knighthood was brought up. I've been playing for a good... near 8 years I think? For almost the entire time, I was doing Knighthood stuff. Got it, and promptly had to go dormant. I came back and already knew that, RP-wise, my character would always have the same demeanor, but has always had a scientific mind- so I left the Wardens and went Alchemist. I don't like the fact that I had to leave the Wardens to continue following my RP. It was heartbreaking to see the Warden House fall, but it needed to happen. Things need to happen in this game, and this game constantly evolves for a reason. To keep the players interested, and to bring more players in. Hell, Trilliana finally got to meet her grandmother, that was dormant since before I even started playing.
2. I don't even recall the event with the Serpentlords, but my character's God got killed off, along with many others, and many of her Ordermates have moved on to other Orders. Should they be looked down upon for accepting that the past happened and that life should move on? Just because something is GONE, doesn't mean the history or even the tradition in the House or Order or City or whatever is wiped away.
3. Meh, that's your opinion and it sounds like a very lonely, boring existence unless you found something besides seething hatred for something that happened.
4. If your Runewarden has to give up being a Knight? Who said that there wouldn't be some sort of Knighthood? Sure, it's up to the Houses, but it could eventually come about if it isn't already in the works. And YOUR RP is informed by YOU, the Player. You have ultimate control in what your RP is, and guess what, like actual people, it can change. Characters change constantly and that's because they can Roleplay it.
TLDR: Bolded
Yeah, I know it wasn't directed at my posts. I just wanted to throw in my two cents about the Serpentlords/Lotus ordeal thing since some people have been talking about it so far.
Looking forward to the changes!
I'm very excited for the changes to Mhaldor's Houses and I can't wait to see how the discussions go. From what I have seen and heard of Cyrene's experience with their own House Renaissance, it makes me glad that we've had our own internal discussions and drafts ready for presentation. It would cut down on the period of transition required, so hopefully, the other cities won't have long to wait after us!
This was probably a bad example, because while Achaea is the perfect set up for roleplaying immortals that just build up grudges, opinions, and political stances, most people play their adventurers as mortals rather than functional immortals (even though adventurers are basically the latter - they're like freaking vampires, stealing life energy from others to bolster their own, and sometimes going to sleep for centuries). Even if this was a roleplay about immortals that build up grudges, only a fool fails to adapt.
That said, people are too focused on this example. If that character had maintained that grudge and displayed it openly at every opportunity, then @Thessaly is perfectly right that it would be awful roleplaying to just have to character change their mind.
The thing is, @Aerek is a cool guy. You're detecting malice in an opinion which is really more presented as if from a writer or a GM. You don't have to have your character suddenly like anything - he's just saying that as a player, an OOC entity, you should be able to find some path of believable actions that mean you'll accept these changes in some way. If it turns out that means you leave Cyrene to join Mhaldor along the way, then so be it.
The thing is that it doesn't address the original concern, which is that the administration will just throw these changes as gameplay changes and demand players to individually do all the work in adapting. This isn't a problem that @Aerek's solution can solve because, frankly, every player will have a different adaptation, and that will have just about no unity. It would be like trying to build a house by placing explosives about randomly and hoping the debris happens to form one.
That is the actual reason the administration needs to make sure these changes have very IC explanations that exist in the game in a very real, undeniable way.
I find this scenario is quite easy to instigate RP-wise. As Targossas and the Bloodsworn have taken a more military and 'complete adherence' stance with the Light, I find this can easily be played against Cyrene.
Scene:
The bloodsworn would approach Cyrene, stating that with their recent change, it is time they fully acknowledge the light and become a state devoted to the banishment of Evil and Chaos from the land. Cyrene would insist it is not a military state and their people simply seek to live in peace and isolation from that very chaos. The Bloodsworn would demand they make a choice and if they choose not to acknowledge the lifestyle of the Light, that they be seen as heathens. Cyrene makes the sad choice, choosing to stay with their culture, thus severing ties to the bloodsworn and church/targossas.
@Asmodron what makes you think it would be a sad choice? No one likes being under the thumb of another. So if we get a chance to tell the bloodsworn where to shove their scabbards it might be a good one. (Disclaimer - This is not the opinion of Cyrene. This opinion belongs to me and me alone...though others might share it that is for them to decide..)
I spoke with my friend, and he said that you might not remember it because you weren't on that night. If the house as a whole has moved past it, that's fine. Not everyone will have let it go, and that was my point. Without some closure, the new houses will be trying to improvise a house out of nothing and doing so with a great many disparate factions from different house cultures. Additionally, without closure, there is less of an impetus to drive people forward into the collaborative effort to create the new houses as a cohesive whole, instead of trying to preserve as much as possible from their fallen house. If you already have IC reasons to be accepting of the change, then I say no harm, no foul. I just find @Aerek's suggestion distasteful, because it implies that character identity is irrelevant to what actions you choose to take with your character.Here's the thing. You can choose to have your character RP being a contributing, helpful member of the new changes. You can choose to have your character RP being an indifferent member to the new changes. You can also choose to have your character be antagonistic to the new changes, but don't be surprised if this option finds you cityless, and don't be surprised when people like my character won't have anything to do with your character.
If there's one thing I'm sick and tired of in Achaea, its the (thankfully decreasing) number of individuals in Hashan who would rather play a character antagonistic to other citizens than the world. We've got a solid group of people now, so we're not as susceptible to it as we used to be, but someone like that could still cause a ruckus. I'm just ready to fight people outside of our org instead of the people in it.
I'm actually very surprised to hear that. It's clear that the idea is to get away from houses being focused on class (same as the idea was when houses were introduced), but what I saw so far didn't lead me to believe that it was the goal to make houses more about ideals, but rather about "preferred play styles".
Maybe it wasn't the admin's wish for it to turn out like this but merely something Cyrene's leaders decided, but from what I can tell so far Cyrene's new houses definitely seem much less focused on ideals than the former houses, and more focused on activities.
I was actually explicitly told by one of the respective founding members that the goal was to create a house that would not impose any ideals/philosophy on its members, but merely serve as a common place for people interested in the same kind of general activity, which incidentally also was the main thing that turned me from wanting to join said house. I assumed that it might be a goal to no longer have strong individual house ideals, but have a greater focus on city ideals instead, but in retrospect I might have been wrong about this and this was merely the decision of said founder(s) and not the admins.
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