Classleads

Jovolo

Don't view the approval in isolation, look at the big picture. Many things will change as a result of this classleads round/weaponry changes which must be soon, etc.

Antonius

I doubt we'll be seeing weaponry changes soon, but I hope I'm wrong. The (lack of) speed on Soulpiercers is starting to piss me off.

Wessux

Antonius said:

I doubt we'll be seeing weaponry changes soon, but I hope I'm wrong. The (lack of) speed on Soulpiercers is starting to piss me off.

If you're a runewarden they're awesome, but yeah, kinda suck for paladin/infernal

Mishgul

Shut up i want to win fights for once.

Wessux

Mishgul said:

Shut up i want to win fights for once.

Don't be a scrub.

Jovolo

Soulpiercers are amazing for Infernal! I agree with Paladin though, depressingly poorly suited

Jarrod

I've always felt rapiers are a stupid knight weapon in general (even though I used them as a knight because you kind of have to at this point), because seriously:

This -



versus this -



Is going to accomplish approximately nothing.

Kyrra

Not if you aim for the holes in the visor!

Jarrod

Predictable, as it's the one place that blade could actually have a change of damaging. At that point the guy wielding:



is going to knock your dinky blade out of the way (or just raise his arms) and smash all  that is your face!

Nim

You could probably kill someone with a toothpick if you got an eye shot in. It would probably not kill them itself, but if they're wounded enough, you could just take that fancy helmet off and smash it into their skull a few times.

Achimrst

Nim said:

You could probably kill someone with a toothpick if you got an eye shot in. It would probably not kill them itself, but if they're wounded enough, you could just take that fancy helmet off and smash it into their skull a few times.

You are so hot right now @Nim

Ernam

I'm surprised and happy to see all of my significant classleads approved, with the exception of passive healing being visible.  Not sure why that got denied, but ... can't win'em all.

Trey

Jarrod said:

I've always felt rapiers are a stupid knight weapon in general (even though I used them as a knight because you kind of have to at this point), because seriously:

This -



versus this -



Is going to accomplish approximately nothing.

While not entirely true, I've always just pictured the rapiers Knights use more like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Side-sword

What bothers me more than rapiers is the fact that we use two long blades  Hopefully with the knight rework that doesn't misrepresent two-handed swords as some sort of hulking, brutish option.

Rangor

you guys make me think of..

How do you youtube?

Dunn

You click the share tab and post the URL it gives you rather than the one from your browsers address bar.

Mishgul

Aerek said:

With zero sarcasm/passive aggression, can someone explain this to me? A few of us were just talking about how powerful Infernal's Vivisect is at present in the combat forum, so this one caught me by surprise.

Report #52
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by: Carmain        Status      : Approved                 Priority : 3
Skill       :                Ability     : Necrolysation
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem:
In the current climate, due to evolving systems and combat logic amongst people becoming more
efficient, infernals are lacking a way of capitalising on their setups. They lack a shieldbreaker to
prevent people avoiding disembowel, and restoring and not applying restoration while off equilibrium
has been shown to be a successful method of avoiding vivisect, especially since restore was reduced
to only partially take into account partially damaged/mangled limbs, so that cleave was taken out of
the equation. If logs are required to prove this, they can be provided.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Solution #1:
Necrolysation could be an ability to add a 50% fail rate to restore. So if someone uses restore
while necrolysed, there is a 50% chance for each individual limb to be cured. For each limb not
cured, the equilibrium cost will be reduced as if that limb was not broken. This will lessen
reliance on a trigger to restore on limb breaks. To make it effective, the ability should be delayed.
 Once activated, the infernal will lose equilibrium and be unable to do anything for 2 seconds, at
the end of the 2 seconds, he regains equilibrium and it will inflict the target, as well as give a
message. The cure should either be a ten second wear off, or applying to torso so that the ability
retains it's usefulness. It would cost a hefty amount of essence, around 10%
Solution #2:
increase the equilibrium cost of restore to it's previous state.
Solution #3:
If the head is damaged, restore has a chance to fail entirely.  This will add an extra defensive
dimension when fighting infernals, and people will have to be more wary of how they are defending.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Decision:
Approved for investigation into further restore eq modifiers.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not applying restoration salves while off-EQ is the only way to avoid Vivisect. Are we trying to make Vivisect actually unstoppable? I'm not trying to be snarky, I would legitimately like to understand the underlying logic behind the classlead and the approval.


An intelligent parry and pre apply of restoration w/ rebounding is another strong counter which is underused but very frustrating when you come up against it (this can be coded)

The thing is, is it worth making things 100% mechanically avoidable. Fights aren't fun when they drag out and i would rather die to an infernal who sets up and capitalises properly. Sitting afk and surviving these setups is stupid imo.

Aerek

I see. Couldn't the same be said of any setup, from any class, though? I thought that was Achaea's entire design philosophy:  If you cure "optimally" and never make a mistake, you'll never die. If we shift away from that, towards a paradigm where a perfect setup is inescapable, that essentially puts every fight on a timer; the first one to reach their setup wins. Wouldn't that present massive imbalances between classes with different lengths of prep work? If we took the same approach toward Monk and re-evaluated Tumble's length to make a double leg-break setup inescapable, then a fight between a Runewarden vs a Monk simply becomes a race that the Monk is going to win every time, because Monks only need a fraction of the time a Runewarden does to setup up both legs and torso. (Unless every class is getting an overhaul so they all take roughly the same time to set up their kill, which sounds dreadfully dull to me)

I guess I just fundamentally disagree. I do have fun when fights drag out, because it means both combatants are equally skilled and the match is won and lost in nuance, rather than because of the ignorance of one party. It's why I've never complained about Tumble stopping Disembowel, because if you've done your homework and know the weakness of each opponents' setup, you should never die to one. The fact that folks can survive indefinitely if they have explored every possible avenue of curing and countering to find the "best" route against a given opponent is what makes Achaea different and interesting to me. I can see where it might be boring at the highest levels of competition, where everyone knows those "best" methods, but the vast majority of the game (even the vast majority of combatants) don't fight on that level, so it seems harsh to tear down what I feel is one of the most unique aspects of Achaea simply because the top 1% is "too good" at this game.

But assuming that is the direction we're going, my next question is whether every other class would be getting an unstoppable setup of their own at the same time, or would we all just have to deal with Infernal being the only mechanically unstoppable class for a while?

Bonko

Report #85

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submitted by: Micositu       Status      : Approved                 Priority : -1

Skill       :                Ability     : Subterfuge cancel

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Problem:

It is simply too easy to cancel a large number of warps with essentially no cost to yourself. It 

takes just as long to cancel a wormhole as a it takes two people to splice a wormhole. So 

essentially the aggressor, or the person canceling, has it easier

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Solution #1:

Make it such that canceling requires 2 people. One on either side of the wormhole or require 3 

people on one side of a worm hole, such that wormholes which lead to rooms with guards can 

eventually be canceled. Also add a function which notifies serpents of wormholes being canceled.

Solution #2:

Make both splicing and canceling a multi-event practice. As in it takes 2-3 achaean months to splice 

or cancel a wormhole, in multiple sessions. Furthermore adding a new feature which would disable but 

not cancel the wormholes, making them a more fixed stucture.

Solution #3:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Decision:

We acknowledge there is a problem with the one sided nature of conflict here. None of these 

solutions, but we'll make changes.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess with all those snipe ents it is kind of embarrassing you couldn't keep wormholes up against just one person cancelling.

Edit: OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THE FORUMS. SOMEONE HELP.

Jovolo

Hnnnngh

Vastar

What the hell did you do?

Hanley

@Vastar He is @Bonko, he did everything.

Ernam

The change to Numb pretty much just crippled monk bashing.  Without armor, resistances, or shield of absorption, Numb was pretty much our only form of damage mitigation.  For a change based on a classlead that was purely PVP related, that nerf seems to have had a pretty big side-effect.  Any chance we can find a way around that @Makarios? (Like having it only have a cooldown if you were hit by a player during the Numb?)

Bouff

If you are using numb while bashing as a monk you are wasting time.

Karai

I bashed to Dragon with 12/13 con (w/icon) and 11 str and only using numb a few times. Monks can bash just fine without it. Don't really mind the change just yet, we'll see.

Alrena

I'm personally not happy with the sandling change. Right now, it's pretty much useless, since if I have a single broken arm and I'm standing, I'll just shield. At most, this'll be useful against knights, but monks again have it easier to kill people now. Gods forbid they had to prep a single arm extra.

Makarios

I've been meaning to post on this a while, so I'll go ahead now I think.

The issue with prone "shieldlike" abilities (ones that require people to spend equilibrium/balance to counter) is that curing to a point that you can use them when prone is almost always (with very few exceptions) going to be considerably faster than curing what you would normally need to cure to survive. Given that historically these abilities have also been on classes with tanking mitigation above the average, it is very unlikely someone curing with this in mind is going to die to a non instakill-based setup (for the purposes of this, I'll include attacks that drop your health from above 90% to 0 as instakills) inside the window of opportunity. This isn't the norm for artied players, and definitely isn't for unartefacted players.

As for sandling being useless now, I'd rather say it is still far superior to shielding if you are able. There are obvious advantages to being able to dodge follow up attacks such as thurisaz, dragon blast, and kai choke upon standing, for example. It certainly isn't as potent as formally.

Alrena

The sad thing is, I never even made it so that I put arms before legs in my curing priority. Ah well, it's true that sandling isn't totally useless. I'm just lightly grumpy because a certain monk is no doubt going to start jumping me at every turn again.

Jukilian

Report #309
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submitted by: Jukilian       Status      : Rejected
Skill       : Enchantment    Ability     : Bauble
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Problem:
Throwing a scented bauble into an adjacent room is useless if the owner of the falcon has ordered 
the falcon to Track to somebody. In one case, a falcon returned in exactly one second after a bauble 
was thrown. If this is the case, this makes scented baubles worthless as the majority of Knights who 
use falcons would most likely be using Falcon Track to have it follow somebody. Even if the thrower 
is indoors, the falcon returns.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Solution #1:
When a Scented Bauble is thrown into an adjacent room, have the falcon forget any orders to Track 
somebody that it currently had when it leaves the room

Solution #2:
When a Scented Bauble is thrown into an adjacent room, have the falcon forget all orders that its 
owner had gave it, not only just Track

Solution #3:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Decision:
Not too keen on making mechanics like this more potent.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More potent? How about 'actually of use'? May as well remove baubles from the game, I otherwise see no practical use for them whatsoever. Could have at least considered making this at least of some use.

I know this isn't rants, but this thread is about classleads, so...

Makarios

Problem with mechanics like these are they're very, very boring for both people. Noone wants to spend half a fight doing throw baubel/falcon recall until one person gets bored or runs out of enchantments.

We might find something to use it for down the line though.

Jukilian

Does falcon track <person> require the falcon to be recalled? And does it have with it any balance or equilibrium costs?

If it doesn't cost anything and doesn't need the falcon recalled, then throwing a bauble means potentially unwielding a weapon or shield, potentially relaxing grip, wielding a bauble, and throwing it in an applicable direction, costing balance. You then need to rewield what you unwielded and potentially grip again.

Then all the Knight needs to do is 'falcon track <person>' as soon as they notice.

All of this while fighting the Knight, of course. Huge sacrifice just to get the falcon out of the room.

Feel free to correct me, I'm not 100% on falcon control.