Memorable quotes

Talysin

I really don't care about the bounty on me, but you're abusing game mechanics on a newbie and that's shameful.

And if you're claiming that defiling is a "city crime", you are being disingenuous - you know this is abuse.

Mishgul

Being hunted should be part of the game, why would you take that away from someone. We expose all our novices to dying frequently ASAP. At least I do.

Talysin

So I would normally agree with you, but this is exactly the problem with this game. Somebody starts abusing something, then gets things abused on them, Team A calls Team B lame, Team B responds by abusing stuff as well and then nobody is having fun. It's a PVP game, we get it, but this is Mhaldor being petulant because they weren't quick enough to witness and then backtracking to find reasons why its ok. This is textbook wrong, yo.

Mishgul

Now you are contradicting yourself. Do you like abuse or not? 

Talysin

Just respond please.

Ruth

Talysin said:

I really don't care about the bounty on me, but you're abusing game mechanics on a newbie and that's shameful.

And if you're claiming that defiling is a "city crime", you are being disingenuous - you know this is abuse.

Hey, it's no skin off -my- back if I take off the bounty or not.

Regarding defiling being a city crime, I'm not making it up. It's been part of one of our charges since forever.

19     Defiling (outside city)        10000                1 Achaean years
34     Defiling (within city)         35000                4 Achaean years

Nope, don't think I'm being disingenuous.

Aktillum

Writs, bounties, PK rules....can we just make Achaea a hardcore perma-death open PK game already?

Talysin

I understand that Mhaldor historically has considered defiling a city crime, but do you think the administration had that in mind when they created bounties? What this comes off as is you attempting to make up for missed witnessing. Do you think this behavior is "as-intended" by the administration? I'm asking you to reply honestly.

Mishgul

Yes

Morthif

Bluef said:

Message #30736      Sent by Anytus

9/04/5:43 Greetings! Regarding your issue #69927: Defiling generates a writ for an Order member who wishes to go out and claim it, so bounties cannot be put up for defiling.

Aktillum

if defiling is a city crime now, can Ashtan make some bounties on whoever keeps defiling Vastar shrines in Arcadia please and lol

Morthif

I don't disagree with you @Ruth‌. Novices need to learn the dangers of defining but you can't make up a bounty to teach the lesson.

Anedhel

4084h, 3820m, 19058e, 17214w 1 cekdb- 11:09:34.007
With a dramatic gesture, Balam Agab, the Baron summons forth an array of silver daggers. The blades
swiftly slice through the air, piercing your flesh.
With a fierce overhead swing, an orc soldier hacks his massive, gleaming axe into your side.
You have been slain by an orc soldier.

That's new o_O

Ulrike

Talysin said:

I really don't care about the bounty on me, but you're abusing game mechanics on a newbie and that's shameful.

And if you're claiming that defiling is a "city crime", you are being disingenuous - you know this is abuse.

@Ruth is correct.
I have very detailed files from 2007 and earlier (as either SecMin or an important aide) about all the people we enemied for defiling.

Bounties and writs and how much you can reasonably kill someone using either... that's a separate issue. I think having the city target you after the fact with a bounty is OK, particularly if you got away. In this era, writs seem to me more like an archaic, sometimes-useful hard-coded record of defiling than as permission slips you absolutely must have to attack somebody.

Ruth

Well, if bounties are a concern (and it's not like I'm making it a habit), I can simply remove them and tell Mhaldorians that they still remain as/are still a target to pursue to send a message.

As I said, it's no skin off my back. Bounties are simply a way for me to dish out automated motivational rewards for those who wish to engage in further service for the Sartai/Mhaldor.

That all being said, discussion is all well and good OOCly but only one person has even approached me ICly about the general matter!

Talysin

Ulrike said:

Talysin said:

I really don't care about the bounty on me, but you're abusing game mechanics on a newbie and that's shameful.

And if you're claiming that defiling is a "city crime", you are being disingenuous - you know this is abuse.

@Ruth is correct.
I have very detailed files from 2007 and earlier (as either SecMin or an important aide) about all the people we enemied for defiling.

Bounties and writs and how much you can reasonably kill someone using either... that's a separate issue. I think having the city target you after the fact with a bounty is OK, particularly if you got away. In this era, writs seem to me more like an archaic, sometimes-useful hard-coded record of defiling than as permission slips you absolutely must have to attack somebody.

I understand where you're coming from, what I meant to say was "city crime" in the context of bounties. Your last paragraph seems to be you saying "well I don't like the current system of writs, so I think it's ok to abuse this new bounty thing to get the desired outcome of punishing our enemies". It also feels lazy - you can't get a witness so you put up a bounty - win/win.

Ulrike

Talysin said:

I understand where you're coming from, what I meant to say was "city crime" in the context of bounties. Your last paragraph seems to be you saying "well I don't like the current system of writs, so I think it's ok to abuse this new bounty thing to get the desired outcome of punishing our enemies". It also feels lazy - you can't get a witness so you put up a bounty - win/win.

I'm not really jonesing for endless PK revenge on people, especially these days.

What I'm saying is that writs are a relic of, and contribute to, an excessively legalistic system of cause-counting that's undesirable.

Aktillum

Yeah its probably best to not use bounties over the writs system as long as the admins are still supporting the writs system. That issue ruling @Bluef posted is pretty black and white.

I do agree with @Ulrike that its an archaic system though. Beyond archaic. It makes sense for like, witnessing one guy who is defiling Scarlatti's Order and they don't have any PvPers and they need to rely on getting writs/contracts for justice. But defiling an org like Mhaldor or Targ, you're sort of expecting to fight whatever defenders the city will bring along, whether or not those defenders are even in the Orders of the shrines being defiled. And so in that context, shrine conflict is just city conflict outside the cities.

Solution is obviously delete shrines.

Talysin

Ulrike said:

Talysin said:

I understand where you're coming from, what I meant to say was "city crime" in the context of bounties. Your last paragraph seems to be you saying "well I don't like the current system of writs, so I think it's ok to abuse this new bounty thing to get the desired outcome of punishing our enemies". It also feels lazy - you can't get a witness so you put up a bounty - win/win.

I'm not really jonesing for endless PK revenge on people, especially these days.

What I'm saying is that writs are a relic of, and contribute to, an excessively legalistic system of cause-counting that's undesirable.

Ill agree with you here, writs are anachronistic. I'm saying this: do we have to take new fun systems that the admins give us and abuse them? If we keep doing this we will never get multi class .

Mishgul

i don't see how it is abuse of the system. Would have paid cr for her head anyway from the city, why not put it in the automatic payout system that will do it for us. If anything it's just people doing what people do, no need to attribute the system as a fault to this. It would make more sense to rant about the people wanting to kill your novice that put itself in a position to die.

Aktillum

What they could do is just make writs able to be yielded to your city, if your Divine is associated with that city, and the Minister of Security could then turn that writ into a bounty. Which would still be a form of the archaic writs system, but a move in the right direction towards incorporating it into legal bounties. Actually, I'm turning that into an ideas thread.

Hey, you guys wanna talk about how archaic the writs system really is..

(bottom of help writs)

1. Gives individuals a chance to actually get away with defiling a shrine (or killing a city guard, or exterminating a forest room, or other things we will use this system for if the shrines work out.)

how long ago do you guys think they scrapped that idea? I'm estimating years

Talysin

Mishgul said:

i don't see how it is abuse of the system. Would have paid cr for her head anyway from the city, why not put it in the automatic payout system that will do it for us. If anything it's just people doing what people do, no need to attribute the system as a fault to this. It would make more sense to rant about the people wanting to kill your novice that put itself in a position to die.

Thats...an insightful point actually.

Anedhel

(Party): Hanley says, "Goggo do priest stuff."
4041h, 3750m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:09.379
(Party): Goggo says, "I can do that."
 4041h, 3729m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:13.389(-21m, 0.6%)
(Party): Hanley says, "If you can absolve then do it."
4041h, 3729m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:15.854
 (Party): You say, "Goggo."
4041h, 3703m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:18.633
(Party): Goggo says, "Pray and kneel all the time."
4041h, 3675m, 19105e, 17795w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:20.267(-28m, 0.7%)
(Party): You say, "Are you wearing armor?"
4041h, 3675m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:21.048
"Eep!" Goggo screams in fright.
4041h, 3675m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:23.906
(Party): Talysin says, "Ill be bopping with mental affs."
4041h, 3675m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:23.958
Goggo takes a suit of splint mail from a bag of stasis.
4041h, 3648m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:25.564
Goggo puts on a suit of splint mail.
4041h, 3648m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:26.559
(Party): Goggo says, "I am now."
4041h, 3621m, 19105e, 17795w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:28.696(-27m, 0.7%)
Hanley attempts to stifle his amusement but cannot help laughing aloud.
4041h, 3621m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:29.459
(Party): You say, "Oh my Goddess."
4041h, 3621m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:31.358
Hanley nods his head at Talysin.
4041h, 3588m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:33.714(-33m, 0.9%)
Tears fill your eyes and begin to slowly run down your face.
4041h, 3588m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:34.002
(Party): Goggo says, "Been fighting all day without it."
4041h, 3553m, 19105e, 17799w 99 cexkdb- 12:50:39.448(-35m, 0.9%)

Sigh.

Morthif

That's our @Goggo‌

Kayeil

I don't see a problem with a Divine focused city like Mhaldor enemying people for defiling (pretty sure crimes against Aurora and Deucalion end up with one being enemied to Targossas, too), but unless the writ system finally gets updated, writs should be saved for defiling and bounties should be saved for city crimes. If one wishes to reward a Sartai for completely a writ (if they didn't yield it) I don't see a problem with that, but it seems pretty clear bounties were not meant for the Orders to use.

Talysin

Newbie is being trolled by someone and this ensues. Targossas is full of hilarity today.

(Targossas): Tesha says, "But if he's bothering you and you don't want to mess with him, just ask him politely to leave you alone."

(Targossas): Tesha says, "If he doesn't, let me know and I will be far less polite."

(Targossas): Siduri says, "And if he won't stop, I'll truelock him and tie him up in a corner of my bedroom, and leave him to rot like every other man who tried before him."

(Targossas): Newbie says, "Okay."

(Targossas): Siduri says, "I doubt he has heartstop."

(Targossas): Tesha says, "Why... why in... you know, nevermind."

(Targossas): Cadarus says, "I think I like you, Siduri."

(Targossas): Siduri says, "Don't like me too much, Cadarus."

(Targossas): Cadarus says, "Noted."

Anedhel

(Targossas): Ada says, "Hascrub in."
4041h, 3780m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 16:29:16.173
Malefic Hascrub (male Satyr).
He is 18 years old, having been born on the 21st of Chronos, 646 years after the fall of the
Seleucarian Empire.
He is unranked in Achaea.
He is an extremely credible character.
He is not known for acts of infamy.
He is a Slave in Mhaldor.
He is considered to be approximately 0% of your might.
His motto: 'Scrub.'
4041h, 3780m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 16:30:30.396

Huh.

Achilles

Anedhel said:

(Targossas): Ada says, "Hascrub in."
4041h, 3780m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 16:29:16.173
Malefic Hascrub (male Satyr).
He is 18 years old, having been born on the 21st of Chronos, 646 years after the fall of the
Seleucarian Empire.
He is unranked in Achaea.
He is an extremely credible character.
He is not known for acts of infamy.
He is a Slave in Mhaldor.
He is considered to be approximately 0% of your might.
His motto: 'Scrub.'
4041h, 3780m, 19105e, 17800w 99 cexkdb- 16:30:30.396

Huh.

@Hasar is breeding... the end of days draws near

Bluef

Re: Bounties

30411       Tecton   8/08/2:25  There needs to be a valid reason, there will never be a chance where you get a bounty placed on your head just for being an enemy. The system is more a formalised system for seeking retribution for people who, say, raid, or break into a city shop. 

30736       Anytus   9/04/5:43  Greetings! Defiling generates a writ for an Order member who wishes to go out and claim it, so bounties cannot be put up for defiling. Bounties would need to be placed within a reasonable timeframe after the incident, 3-5rl days being a reasonable expectation of a response time. As with contracts, if it cannot be resolved ICly, you are free to file an  issue to seek further resolution. 

WRITs allow people to gain undeniable PK rights to attack a person for a specified amount of time. Bounties do not; however, they do provide RP-justification for doing so; that way no one can issue "He's attacking me for no reason!" (This should also explain why bounties show up after claimed whereas writs do not)

The problem with using bounties to come after shrine defilement is obvious. You can't say for sure who defiled a shrine unless you witness. If you witnessed, then you already have a writ. Putting up a separate bounty to give someone else a crack at killing the defiler is just overkill. 

Cynder

Talysin said:

Goggo said:

2014/09/17 13:27:30 - Ruth has filed a bounty against Althaia for 'Destroying a shrine to the Master'. The 

reward is 5000 gold.

2014/09/17 13:27:56 - Ruth has filed a bounty against Eleison for 'Destroying a shrine to the Master'. The 

reward is 10000 gold.

2014/09/17 13:28:38 - Ruth has filed a bounty against Talysin for 'Destroying a shrine to the Master'. The 

reward is 10000 gold.

2014/09/17 13:28:54 - Ruth has filed a bounty against Patria for 'Destroying a shrine to the Master'. The 

reward is 8000 gold.

2014/09/17 13:29:15 - Ruth has filed a bounty against Linus for 'Destroying a shrine to the Master'. The 

reward is 10000 gold.

Just wondering.. isn't this exactly against the purpose of bounties? Shrine conflict is supposed to be solved via writs, right?

Yes, Im particularly annoyed that Althaia was on the list.

In before we get a response akin to "Mhaldor is Sartan's city, so...."

Don't worry, Taly, she won't see it coming when I claim my bounty.
In fact, I could sing her to sleep if she really wanted.

(No but really, I took it because it'd be the even match up, didn't want someone like Xer or Hasar to come guns-blazing and OHKO her. She may even kill me! Or she may not, but at least she won't be blown up in a hit.)