Quick Questions

Grandue

Why was Siren Beguile changed to also work on other women? 

The reason given is that there shouldn't be any reason why women aren't attracted to Sirens. WTF. How about the big glaring reason that not all women are sexually attracted to other women?

If this was some attempt to be politically correct and LGBT friendly you've failed completely and you've also thrown out the whole entire history of the Siren race and RP in the process.

 

Eld

Koyuki said:

Another completely non-related subject to diagnosing!

When forestals use metamorphosis and absorb their 'spirit' of the said animal. Do they gain parts of the animal?
Like, when a Dwarf takes on an eagle morph (or whatever can fly) does he grow wings and flies?
I'm just confused if they are simply gaining the powers and look completely the same..

I think the generally accepted scheme is that they don't physically morph, but have sort of spiritual attributes of the animal that manifest physically. So your dwarf's won't have physical wings growing out of his back, but might have (possibly) visible, spectral wings doing the work.
I think there's some artwork floating around the IRE website that illustrates the idea pretty well.

Sena

Eld said:

 Are both of those removed by aggressive actions? If so, then it doesn't matter which is which, as you won't be able to diagnose either. You can separate them into two categories based on whether they're focusable or not, but I can't think of a way to figure out which one corresponds to which name internally.

I think only the "unnaturally tranquil" one is removed on aggressive actions, and I think (though I'm much more uncertain about it) that it's only aggressive actions from the afflicter (so I could check for it with expert diagnoser as long as I'm not the one who gave it).

Eld said:

I think you have the diagnose lines backwards, there: "pacified" is peace, and "feeling unnaturally tranquil" is pacifism.

I'm just talking about the name used for expert diagnoser. Either way makes just as much sense, really. Either the pacify/pacifism abilities give the "pacified" affliction, or the affliction that diagnoses as "pacified." is referred to as "pacified".

However they're named, they're pointlessly confusing.

Eld

Grandue said:

Why was Siren Beguile changed to also work on other women? 

The reason given is that there shouldn't be any reason why women aren't attracted to Sirens. WTF. How about the big glaring reason that not all women are sexually attracted to other women?

If this was some attempt to be politically correct and LGBT friendly you've failed completely and you've also thrown out the whole entire history of the Siren race and RP in the process.

 

To avoid rehashing it all here, here's a forum thread on the matter. http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/193/seducebeguile/p1

Sena

Grandue said:

Why was Siren Beguile changed to also work on other women?

Why not?

Grandue said:

The reason given is that there shouldn't be any reason why women aren't attracted to Sirens. WTF. How about the big glaring reason that not all women are sexually attracted to other women?

Seduce/beguile are magical abilities, sexual attraction is irrelevant. It would be pretty silly if sexual attraction did have any relevance; not all men are sexually attracted to women either, and even if they are it can't be assumed that they're attracted to that particular siren.

Grandue said:

If this was some attempt to be politically correct and LGBT friendly you've failed completely and you've also thrown out the whole entire history of the Siren race and RP in the process.

...I can't imagine any way this could possibly make sense (and it is demonstrably false). The entire history of the siren race and all siren RP is based exclusively on the idea that a rarely-used and rarely-mentioned ability works a certain way?

Grandue

Eld said:

Grandue said:

Why was Siren Beguile changed to also work on other women? 

The reason given is that there shouldn't be any reason why women aren't attracted to Sirens. WTF. How about the big glaring reason that not all women are sexually attracted to other women?

If this was some attempt to be politically correct and LGBT friendly you've failed completely and you've also thrown out the whole entire history of the Siren race and RP in the process.

 

To avoid rehashing it all here, here's a forum thread on the matter. http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/193/seducebeguile/p1

Ah! Thanks for the link!

Eld

Sena said:

Eld said:

 Are both of those removed by aggressive actions? If so, then it doesn't matter which is which, as you won't be able to diagnose either. You can separate them into two categories based on whether they're focusable or not, but I can't think of a way to figure out which one corresponds to which name internally.

I think only the "unnaturally tranquil" one is removed on aggressive actions, and I think (though I'm much more uncertain about it) that it's only aggressive actions from the afflicter (so I could check for it with expert diagnoser as long as I'm not the one who gave it).

Eld said:

I think you have the diagnose lines backwards, there: "pacified" is peace, and "feeling unnaturally tranquil" is pacifism.

I'm just talking about the name used for expert diagnoser. Either way makes just as much sense, really. Either the pacify/pacifism abilities give the "pacified" affliction, or the affliction that diagnoses as "pacified." is referred to as "pacified".

However they're named, they're pointlessly confusing.

Certainly agreed on the bolded. I was thinking it would make sense for the "official" affliction names to correspond with the names of the abilities that give them, but you're right that you could just as well look at the diagnose lines.

That actually leads me to a related question. What names does expert diagnoser give for the various levels of breaks?

Sena

Eld said:

That actually leads me to a related question. What names does expert diagnoser give for the various levels of breaks?

Not 100% sure which is which (anyone want to help me test it?), but the names are "crippledleftleg", "brokenleftleg", "mangledleftleg", etc.

Although checking for "crippledleftleg" shows "you can see no symptoms of brokenleftleg", so crippled and broken could just be two different valid names for the same affliction.

Eld

Sena said:

Eld said:

That actually leads me to a related question. What names does expert diagnoser give for the various levels of breaks?

Not 100% sure which is which (anyone want to help me test it?), but the names are "crippledleftleg", "brokenleftleg", "mangledleftleg", etc.

Although checking for "crippledleftleg" shows "you can see no symptoms of brokenleftleg", so crippled and broken could just be two different valid names for the same affliction.

Hm, if "crippledleftleg", "brokenleftleg", and "mangledleftleg" are level 1, 2, and 3, I will feel inordinately validated, since those are exactly the names my system uses. I'd be happy to help test.

Sena

So crippledleftleg and brokenleftleg are both valid names for mending breaks, damagedleftleg for level 1 restoration breaks, mangledleftleg for level 2 restoration breaks. And you see symptoms of everything below the current level as well, so a level 2 break will show symptoms no matter which you check for.

Pacifism (from hypnosis or striking kidneys) does fade no matter who's doing the aggressive action, so there's no way to check for that. Devotion peace (which diagnoses as "pacified.") is referred to by "peace" though, so I'd assume "pacifism" would refer to the others if checking for afflictions wasn't aggressive.

Still no clue what selarnia could be.

Edit: So, what is it that diagnoses as "merciful indeed."?

Sena

I also can't find a name to check for lust. A few others too, but lust is the only one so far that seems like it would actually be useful to check for.

Mishgul

Lust does not come up as an affliction afaik

Xli

Announce #3822 said:

3. Concoctions users can now pluck feathers from eagle's in their inventory. 

What does the eagle have from which can be plucked feathers?

Kyrra

Xli said:

Announce #3822 said:

3. Concoctions users can now pluck feathers from eagle's in their inventory. 

What does the eagle have from which can be plucked feathers?

A dead corpse. You used to have to drop the eagles to pluck them, if they were dead. This is an awesome change.

Anaidiana

Kyrra said:

Xli said:

Announce #3822 said:

3. Concoctions users can now pluck feathers from eagle's in their inventory. 

What does the eagle have from which can be plucked feathers?

A dead corpse. You used to have to drop the eagles to pluck them, if they were dead. This is an awesome change.

He's commenting on the punctuation error. Eagles plural should not have an apostrophe. Eagle's with the apostrophe designates the possessive. This was one of the things my 12th grade English teacher beat into us before we were allowed to pass and therefore graduate. 

Xli

Anaidiana said:

Kyrra said:

Xli said:

Announce #3822 said:

3. Concoctions users can now pluck feathers from eagle's in their inventory. 

What does the eagle have from which can be plucked feathers?

A dead corpse. You used to have to drop the eagles to pluck them, if they were dead. This is an awesome change.

He's commenting on the punctuation error. Eagles plural should not have an apostrophe. Eagle's with the apostrophe designates the possessive. This was one of the things my 12th grade English teacher beat into us before we were allowed to pass and therefore graduate. 

Precisely. Misuse of apostrophes is a particular bugbear of mine.

Seftin

#grammarnazis

Tecton

Sena said:

What's the actual name of the affliction given by selarnia?

Any of the following work for the selarnia effect:

• animalbonding
• spiritbonding
• bonding

Hope this helps!

Grandue

Sena Posts: 1,012  - Epic Achaean

April 4

Grandue said:

Why was Siren Beguile changed to also work on other women? 

Why not?

No, the actual question was "Why", not "Why not?". Making changes based on "Why not" is foolish. Why not make seduce work on trees or animals or Divine? Why not made seduce force men and women to get divorces and propose to the Siren? No, the question was and still remains, "Why?", not "Why not?" You know better. 

Grandue said:

The reason given is that there shouldn't be any reason why women aren't attracted to Sirens. WTF. How about the big glaring reason that not all women are sexually attracted to other women?

Seduce/beguile are magical abilities, sexual attraction is irrelevant. It would be pretty silly if sexual attraction did have any relevance; not all men are sexually attracted to women either, and even if they are it can't be assumed that they're attracted to that particular siren.

I disagree, sexual attraction is not irrelevant, it is the only thing that is relevant given the history of the Siren race and the only thing that has ever made sense. The only way that the magical nature of seduce/beguile has made sense in the past is that it has worked on a primal level in men, triggering something hardwired to the male anatomy, the natural instinct to procreate. Something that could be tied to men uniquely regardless of whether or not the man is married, normally attracted to that particular Siren, or even gay. Only men can impregnate women, even gay men. There is no reason why a straight woman should be able to be seduced by a Siren, there is no primal instinct that is tied only to anatomical orientation that can be beguiled or magically affected in a woman to cause her to be attracted to another woman, regardless of her sexual orientation. To what end are women now seduced by Siren women? Sirens now have the ability to make straight women fall in love with other women? Do not mistake this for some anti-gay stand because it is quite the opposite, I think that this attempt to be gay-friendly was poorly thought out and implemented. 

Grandue said:

If this was some attempt to be politically correct and LGBT friendly you've failed completely and you've also thrown out the whole entire history of the Siren race and RP in the process.

...I can't imagine any way this could possibly make sense (and it is demonstrably false). The entire history of the siren race and all siren RP is based exclusively on the idea that a rarely-used and rarely-mentioned ability works a certain way?

Well, sort of, yes. According to the history of the Siren race, yes, their unique trait that has set their race apart from the other races according to every historical reference, the Keepers of the Song, and HELP SIREN is their "magical ability to seduce men, so that the men will not hurt them." Is that the only thing that has defined their race, absolutely not, but to say that it isn't a very important aspect and plays a very definitive role in their history is just ignorance. This was a sweeping change that had no roleplay or event tied to it. 

It is what it is though. People make decisions emotionally and THEN try to back up their decision with logic. I read the forum thread on it and saw it was closed so obviously it isn't up for discussion any more, no reason to turn this into another debate. We're used to IRE making changes without any back story that completely change history for no apparent reason. I believe it doesn't make sense and if they were trying to balance an ability they could have done it in ways that made more sense, to each his own. Perhaps this should have gone in the Rant thread, I'll stop now. Carry on. 

Nakari

lol

Blujixapug

I always had this vague idea that sirens somehow magically personified the female aspect of the male/female division of the universe, you know, lingam/yoni, Hindu tantras, New Age mysticism, all of that. And as a result they had a mild degree of magical power over men. Nothing in Achaea supports that, but I liked it better than "they're hot chicks".

Trevize

Blujixapug said:

I always had this vague idea that sirens somehow magically personified the female aspect of the male/female division of the universe, you know, lingam/yoni, Hindu tantras, New Age mysticism, all of that. And as a result they had a mild degree of magical power over men. Nothing in Achaea supports that, but I liked it better than "they're hot chicks".

They're magically hot chicks.

Bonko

Tbh, without even reading his post, I agree with Grandue.

I'm gay, so why would I be seduced by some girl (unless of course she had nice hair, a nice bag, some nice shoes, or just because I wanted to be her)?

Thus I propose: CHARACTER SPECIALISE AS HETEROSEXUAL | HOMOSEXUAL | BISEXUAL.

Depending on which one you pick you would be immune (or vulnerable depending on how you like to look at it) to things like lust, lovers, beguile. As a consequence you would be restricted to which gender you could marry and get earrings of Sinope with. Naturally, if you chose bisexual then nothing would change from the present.

Now before you say that people would metagame, do you really think people would forsake and spit on the holy sanctity of text marriage?

I was going to include ASEXUAL as well, but that obviously would be too overpowered.

Valden

@Bonko, so with this change would we get to pick our specialisation or would we get a retroactive "all existing characters are bisexual"? Because if people get to choose, it could cause some awkward RP.

Trevize

Valden said:

@Bonko, so with this change would we get to pick our specialisation or would we get a retroactive "all existing characters are bisexual"? Because if people get to choose, it could cause some awkward RP.

Random!

And permanent.

Bonko

Valden said:

@Bonko, so with this change would we get to pick our specialisation or would we get a retroactive "all existing characters are bisexual"? Because if people get to choose, it could cause some awkward RP.

Message #4075       Sent by Bonko

4/06/20:56 Greetings. In relation to your forum post #64791, we have decided that such a policy 

would not be retroactive. While we understand that choosing your sexuality is a controversial topic 

these days, we have instead decided to maintain the integrity of Achaea's BLOODLINE system. I'm sure 

the husbands and wives (in the real world) that have lost their spouse, after having children no 

less, share your plight. Please contact support@achaea.com if you wish to discuss this further.

Bonko

Trevize said:

Valden said:

@Bonko, so with this change would we get to pick our specialisation or would we get a retroactive "all existing characters are bisexual"? Because if people get to choose, it could cause some awkward RP.

Random!

And permanent.

Surely you jest?

HELP MISCELLANOUSARTEFACTS:

A dusty tome of biology: 1000 credits.

   - Lets the owner reset his or her sexuality up to once an Achaean month

     (once per rl day) with the syntax DEFY LOGIC.

A page of biology: 100 credits.

   - Lets the owner reset his or her sexuality with the syntax DEFY LOGIC.

   - This page will self-destruct when read.

Trevize

Bonko said:

Trevize said:

Valden said:

@Bonko, so with this change would we get to pick our specialisation or would we get a retroactive "all existing characters are bisexual"? Because if people get to choose, it could cause some awkward RP.

Random!

And permanent.

Surely you jest?

HELP MISCELLANOUSARTEFACTS:

A dusty tome of biology: 1000 credits.

   - Lets the owner reset his or her sexuality up to once an Achaean month

     (once per rl day) with the syntax DEFY LOGIC.

A page of biology: 100 credits.

   - Lets the owner reset his or her sexuality with the syntax DEFY LOGIC.

   - This page will self-destruct when read.

Side effect: your gender may randomly change (or disappear!) as a result of using these artefacts.

Bonko

That would be like becoming asexual though. Please see above: overpowered.

Lukan

Sweet, gonna buy that tome so I can be gay with Bonko, then straight with DALUUUUUUUUUUUUU