Quick Questions

[Deleted User]

Typically, when I ask for spars over clan chat, I get no responses. I did get a 'educational' spar with Niks once which was nice (and embarrassingly short), but otherwise it's silent.

Xer

I had good teachers, but I always made sure to double check everything myself, in mechanics, in conceptual theory and in practice before I actually rely on anything. It helps that they're willing to test things out as well - it's just harder to find test dummies! Iooooocuuuunnnn? No totems involved this time - promise!

Iocun

Xer said:

I had good teachers, but I always made sure to double check everything myself, in mechanics, in conceptual theory and in practice before I actually rely on anything. It helps that they're willing to test things out as well - it's just harder to find test dummies! Iooooocuuuunnnn? No totems involved this time - promise!

You know I'm fine with being attacked any time. Go ahead!

And totems are perfectly fine, too.

Achilles

@aina - You shouldn't have a hard time finding someone to ask questions, you could probably just ask people sitting in the safe room for pointers.  Sparring wise its probably a little tougher to find since we don't have a arena so you'll have to join a rampage/FFA in Cyrene, Eleusis or Delos.

Ada

Aina said:

Typically, when I ask for spars over clan chat, I get no responses. I did get a 'educational' spar with Niks once which was nice (and embarrassingly short), but otherwise it's silent.

I'm always available for spars and sharing what little I know about combat ^_^

Elowin

I'd help you if my character wasn't so busy getting blasted on coke kola in the jungle.

Eld

Achilles said:

@aina - You shouldn't have a hard time finding someone to ask questions, you could probably just ask people sitting in the safe room for pointers.  Sparring wise its probably a little tougher to find since we don't have a arena so you'll have to join a rampage/FFA in Cyrene, Eleusis or Delos.

You can't just ask people to go spar in one of those places?

Arador

If they are too lazy to walk to the arena, just duel them in the city, you do not lose expe......oh wait. My bad. *awkward*

Vahrim

In terms of survivability for a magi, is intelligence more important overall than con? I'd heard that both diamond and stoneskin were the main defense for a magi, and that their damage reduction relied heavily upon an intelligence level. So, would it be worthwhile to sacrifice one point of con for int?

Tesha

'help weaponry': Proficiency and Weaponry skill also contribute to your effectiveness. Higher Weaponry results in an across-the-board increase (damage, fewer misses, quicker balance recovery).

*~* learn like 500 extra lessons in weaponry, talk to Sothantos about it... *~*

Sothantos tells you, "I heard it only increased damage."

help! It does increase speed right? Please? I only learned a few skillranks, so the difference is not noticeable yet beyond what can be chalked up to normal variance.

Katzchen

@Tesha I think it's only damage and accuracy when you already have trans chivalry?

Jacen

In my experience, Weaponry is a very thrown together skillset. Wouldn't be surprised if the AB file is just wrong on that.

About 6 months ago I did a lot of experimenting with targetthrow in Weaponry, only to determine that it did absolutely nothing. Target still works in conjunction with throwing, so targetthrow is just an redundant ability. Bugged, it, but the admin told me to ask about it IG, lol.

Tvistor

I was told it increases speed, but only by 10% of what it normally would. (because you already have chivalry)

Katzchen

Yeah... I was told either 10% damage and accuracy or 10% damage and speed. I suppose this might have been one of those things where paying attention was a good idea.

Sena

Weaponry (also chivalry, but I'll get to that later, let's assume no chivalry for now) does increase damage, speed, and accuracy. The difference between inept weaponry and trans weaponry is 1 second of balance, so a weapon with 2 seconds balance at trans weaponry would be 3 seconds at inept weaponry. I don't have good data for how weaponry affects PvP damage, but against denizens, weapon damage is 20+DamageStat at inept and 100+DamageStat at trans.

Now, for knights, chivalry and weaponry both increase damage, speed, and accuracy. You get the full bonus from the higher of the two, and 10% of the lower. So 1050 lessons in chivalry, 1050 lessons in weaponry, 1000 in chivalry plus 500 in weaponry, or 1000 in weaponry plus 500 in chivalry, all give the same effect on damage/speed/accuracy. But the bonuses are capped at a certain point, so having both trans weaponry and trans chivalry doesn't always give any additional bonus beyond just one trans. For example, damage against denizens stops increasing at about fabled. Once the combined bonus of weaponry+chivalry reaches around 1333 lessons, learning more in either doesn't increase PvE damage.

Melodie

I think I know the answer, but those increases from weaponry are only for forged weapons, no?

Edit: To clarify, I've always been told weaponry does not affect a priest's mace, and it's what I've always taught others.

Nellaundra

Actually, I think that they work for about every weapon that you can use [Targeting] with.  Don't quote me on that, but it's what I was told.

Sena

I don't remember what all is affected by weaponry. I think it's all weaponry/chivalry attacks, and normal weapon commands (the slash/jab/crush/etc. seen when probing weapons), with the exception of songblessed rapiers (possibly? I remember someone saying it may be bugged). According to the AB file, daegger hunt also uses weaponry for accuracy. I'm not sure about axe throwing for sentinels.

Nellaundra said:

Actually, I think that they work for about every weapon that you can use [Targeting] with.  Don't quote me on that, but it's what I was told.

This isn't true for blackjacks (bop is targetable, uses pranks), spiritual maces (smite is targetable, uses spirituality), blademaster swords (drawslash is targetable, uses twoarts).

Nellaundra

Huh.  The Sena has spoken!  I got bum info before.

Tesha

@Sena is my hero. Even a tiny bit more speed would be great, as well as the extra accuracy. Thank you so much!

Wilhelmina

Not that I have anyone to use it on, but how far is Snipe in Subterfuge? 'Bout 1500 lessons?

Kazu

Exactly how much do diminishing returns factor in for sub 15 stats? For example, how big of a deal is it to go from 13-14 and 14-15. I'm trying to find a nice balance of con/str to work with for trait purposes.

Sena

For a rough estimate of how much of a damage bonus you get based on your str/int:
13: 6.54%
14: 12.20%
15: 17.57%
16: 22.77%
17: 27.83%
18: 32.80%
19: 37.68%
20: 42.49%
21: 47.24%
22: 51.94%
23: 56.59%
24: 61.20%
25: 65.77%

This isn't perfectly accurate, but should be close. Also, this seems to be the most common formula, used for most attacks I know of (weapon attacks, drawslash, newbie punch/kick/headslam, staffcast, firelash), but some (such as Tekura, I think) are different. This is added to other damage bonuses. So with 14 str and a Scimitar of Yen-Sorte, you would have +19.2% damage, or with 16 int and a level 3 collar you'd have +42.77%.

Tesha

Jeez... Sena is amazing.

Does anyone know why my dsl balance varies so much? It has been as low as 1.5 and as high as 2.1 with an average of 245 speed, nimble, trans chivalry and fabled weaponry. Most slashes are around 1.8ish with 245, and 2ish with 235.

Shunsui

I have the same issue. I always just assumed it was something latency related.

Wilhelmina

What determines archery damage? Just the bow and the skill (Subterfuge, Chivalry)?

Sena

Balance (and any other timer) does vary, but I usually don't see that much variation. It's usually (about 87% of the time) less than ±0.1 seconds for me, but sometimes (about 12% of the time) up to ±0.2s. It seems that other people see more of a difference though.

Aside from the natural server-side variation, variations in the lag between you and the server can also contribute. For example, if it takes you 0.5s to receive the attack line and then 0.2s to receive the balance recovery line, then that balance cost will appear to be 0.3s shorter than it actually was.

Tesha

Yes I remember normal variation from cursing, but the variation is much higher for dsls sometimes. Sometimes it is steadily 1.7-1.8, with a few dips lower and higher, but sometimes it also spikes to 2.1 or 1.5. It seems a little more steady after the original post which makes me think the server is alive and sentient, worst right now is 1.6 to 1.9 which is still better than 1.5 to 2.1, but still a little more variable.

4228h, 3370m, 14500e, 15853w excdbk 35- 13:41:13.184 (+803h, 17.9%) 

You viciously jab an ornate steel rapier into a decaying lich.

You viciously jab an ornate steel rapier into a decaying lich.

A decaying lich exclaims, "Curse you, Tesha! My master shall avenge me, just you wait and see!"

The final blow proves too much for a decaying lich, who expires pitifully.

You have slain a decaying lich, retrieving the corpse.

A small pile of sovereigns spills from the corpse.

dofree get gold

(svo): Added 'get gold' to the dofree queue.

4228h, 3370m, 14480e, 15853w ecdbk 35- 13:41:13.430 

You may apply another salve or balm to yourself.

4228h, 3370m, 14480e, 15853w ecdbk 35- 13:41:13.752 

Your mind is able to focus once again.

4228h, 3370m, 14480e, 15859w ecdbk 35- 13:41:14.543 

You have recovered balance on all limbs. (1.421s)

4228h, 3370m, 14480e, 15859w excdbk 35- 13:41:14.852 

dsl undead

You pick up some gold sovereigns.

4228h, 3370m, 14480e, 15859w excdbk 35- 13:41:14.941 

You viciously jab an ornate steel rapier into a shambling zombie.

You viciously jab an ornate steel rapier into a shambling zombie.

4228h, 3370m, 14460e, 15859w ecdbk 35- 13:41:15.181 

You have recovered balance on all limbs. (1.435s)

4317h, 3370m, 14480e, 15859w excdbk 35- 13:41:16.616 

dsl undead

(+89h, 2.0%) 

You viciously jab an ornate steel rapier into a shambling zombie.

You viciously jab an ornate steel rapier into a shambling zombie.

4317h, 3370m, 14460e, 15859w ecdbk 35- 13:41:16.687 

A massive outstretched arm comes crashing towards you as a shambling zombie slams it into you, 

snapping your bones with a crunching sound.

3794h, 3370m, 14460e, 15859w ecdbk 35- 13:41:16.924 [uwcrip(1)](apply renewal)(-523h, 11.6%) 

You take out some balm and quickly rub it on your skin.

The bones in your right arm mend. (0.043s)

3794h, 3370m, 14460e, 15859w ecdbk 35- 13:41:16.967 

You may drink another health or mana elixir or tonic.

3794h, 3370m, 14460e, 15859w ecdbk 35- 13:41:17.582 (sip health)

You take a drink from a pinewood vial.

The elixir heals and soothes you.

4498h, 3370m, 14460e, 15859w ecdbk 35- 13:41:17.646 (+704h, 15.7%) 

You bleed 20 health.

4478h, 3370m, 14460e, 15865w ecdbk 35- 13:41:17.964 (-20h, 0.4%) 

You may apply another salve or balm to yourself.

4478h, 3370m, 14460e, 15865w ecdbk 35- 13:41:18.203 

You have recovered balance on all limbs. (1.817s)

Sena

Wilhelmina said:

What determines archery damage? Just the bow and the skill (Subterfuge, Chivalry)?

As far as I know, it's just bow type and whether or not the arrow is envenomed (the amount of damage is the same, but unenvenomed arrows are cutting and envenomed arrows are poison). Skill doesn't matter, aiming and wind don't matter, snipe is the same damage as shoot.

Velyse

How important are strength and intelligence for bards? I know that int increases accentato damage, but how does that weigh against int's importance against dex/con/str? The same goes for strength. Obviously you'll jab harder, but how important is that compared to int/dex/con?